Tribute Brad Treliving - offseason so far

[notbias]

Honest question - why did you say it's false that Nylander scores more goals than Marner in both regular season and playoffs?

If we are only talking about goals, sure, Nylander scores more goals, must have misread that, wouldn't debate it.

Matthews > McDavid if this is the criteria for who is better though...

 

[rumman]

Probably won’t ever happen but would the leafs be better of if it was a solo owner versus corporate?

Definitely would be better imo, although with the Leafs luck ghey’d end up with a meddling owner, book it…….

Been there done that.

Didn't really change much, and with a Salary Cap now ...

Team was very success under Conn Smyth’s ownership, Harold Ballard not so much……

 

[HockeyVirus]

Let’s say Marner signs for 8 x 12.5.

Do you think there’s some unearthed potential with this group? 37.5mil for Matthews, Marner and Nylander - can that be a successful model in the playoffs?

I think this is why there’s so much pushback from the fanbase. Many of us don’t see it working long term, as we’ve seen what those 3 (+JT @ around 40m total) can and can’t do in the playoffs. It feels like signing up for 8 more years of the same letdown.

A lot of us feel that 12.5 can be used to bolster the roster in other areas.

With Mitch potentially re-signing, do you think there’s room for this core to improve and challenge for a cup?

The main difference is this time the cap would go up. Don't forget 6 months after Matthews and Marner were signed covid froze the world. They didn't even get a single season of those deals in a normal league.

If they all took 8 years, in 4-5 years the team would be in a good spot cap wise with them. I just don't think people will wait that long and want change next year

 

[rumman]

The main difference is this time the cap would go up. Don't forget 6 months after Matthews and Marner were signed covid froze the world. They didn't even get a single season of those deals in a normal league.

If they all took 8 years, in 4-5 years the team would be in a good spot cap wise with them. I just don't think people will wait that long and want change next year

I’d say with the world on the brink of WWIII, a possible US civil war, a seriuos recesdion, and another pandemic being predicted the cap going up isn’t something I’d be putting any money on happening…….

 

[notbias]

I don't remember Tre having signed Huberdeau for the Leafs.

Sure, we can pretend he just started as GM in the league.

At the time of their signing their most recent contracts (which was the discussion) Marner had not produces statistically better than Nylander.

Marner was the leading goal scorer for our team when he signed.

Nylander's best season at the time of his signing was also worse than Marner's at the time of his signing.

Marner was given more PK time, although apparently the stats show he wasn't very good at it, except for the occasional goal (which Willy did better this year). Let's see want a good coach does.

If Keefe is not a good coach, then. Berube has been a good coach in zero full seasons, he had one part of a season where he was, but sure, let's see how he does.

By the stats Matthews is our best PKer, Marner is in the tier after him with Kampf, the next tier (the bad PKers) has Nylander.

Nylander was good the year before (small sample size) and Marner was the same.

What stats show Marner wasn't good?

I'm not sure Marner was ever the line driver (I think that was JT the first year and undoubtedly Matthews since), but again, at the time if their signing their most recent contracts, Nylander is a much better line driver than Marner.

Marner has been the driver on every line he's played on without Matthews, including the contract year.

Nylander might be, I couldn't quantify it. I think Nylander is a better finisher, better at puck protection, a better skater, and better and zone entries, and then virtually everything else Marner is better at.

Nylander can drive a line by himself, but I am not sure he is a better line driver.

Marner carried multiple bad players before being put with Matthews, and this is pre-Tavares.

 

[ACC1224]

Probably won’t ever happen but would the leafs be better of if it was a solo owner versus corporate?

They were incompetent then as well.

The "narrative around the team"? You mean fans and bloggers and posters here?

I doubt that Tre is so affected by such background noise that he wouldn't say that signing Marner was a priority if it really was. Especially since such a statement would defuse most of the toxic narrative.

He’s smarter than to feed the narrative when it really serves no point.

 

[ULF_55]

Definitely would be better imo, although with the Leafs luck ghey’d end up with a meddling owner, book it…….


Team was very success under Conn Smyth’s ownership, Harold Ballard not so much……

And the grocer ... Stavros? I could look it up.

Rumour he could have had Gretz.

 

[notDatsyuk]

If we are only talking about goals, sure, Nylander scores more goals, must have misread that, wouldn't debate it.

Matthews > McDavid if this is the criteria for who is better though...

OK - the statement was specifically goals.

 

[ULF_55]

OK - the statement was specifically goals.

Maybe just me, but when I say scoring it is about scoring.

You might have to qualify he scored an assist.
You don't have to qualify he scored.

"How as the game?"

"Well, Matthews scored 2."

 

[barilko05]

And the grocer ... Stavros? I could look it up.

Rumour he could have had Gretz.

Stavros was TECHNICALLY the owner, but I believe he did also have a board to report to. And yes, Wayne was down to sign but Grocery Boy Steve's response was "What do we need him for? We already sell out every night."

 

[notDatsyuk]

Sure, we can pretend he just started as GM in the league.



Marner was the leading goal scorer for our team when he signed.

Nylander's best season at the time of his signing was also worse than Marner's at the time of his signing.



If Keefe is not a good coach, then. Berube has been a good coach in zero full seasons, he had one part of a season where he was, but sure, let's see how he does.

By the stats Matthews is our best PKer, Marner is in the tier after him with Kampf, the next tier (the bad PKers) has Nylander.

Nylander was good the year before (small sample size) and Marner was the same.

What stats show Marner wasn't good?



Marner has been the driver on every line he's played on without Matthews, including the contract year.

Nylander might be, I couldn't quantify it. I think Nylander is a better finisher, better at puck protection, a better skater, and better and zone entries, and then virtually everything else Marner is better at.

Nylander can drive a line by himself, but I am not sure he is a better line driver.

Marner carried multiple bad players before being put with Matthews, and this is pre-Tavares.

The discussion was about his performance here.

Yes, I said that - he was leading by 6 points, largely because Matty missed 20 games.

At the time of his signing, Marner's best season was 26G, 94 pts. At the time of his signing, Nylander's best season was 40G, 87 pts. Was Marner's better?

Was he the line driver in JT's first year? Possibly although I ddon't think so, but not since. Nylander is clearly the better line driver.

What's the "virtually everything else"? Forechecking, no. Passing is very close. What else?

We've seen Nylander drive his line for at least three seasons - I'm not sure I've ever seen Marner do it.

"Multiple bad players" like Kadri, JVR, Bozak? That;s who he was mainly playing with in the 16-17 and 17-18 seasons.

But my posts weren't a knock on Marner - just pointing out that Nylander's current contract is not a lot worse than Marner's, as some poster had claimed.

Maybe just me, but when I say scoring it is about scoring.

You might have to qualify he scored an assist.
You don't have to qualify he scored.

"How as the game?"

"Well, Matthews scored 2."

I tend to agree, but I will usually add the caveat, which the poster had done in this instance.

He just missed it - no biggie.

 

[notbias]

OK - the statement was specifically goals.

Okay, well we can weigh goals heavier when we start calling Matthews the best player in the league because the gap between him and everyone else is bigger than Marner and Nylander.

The discussion was about his performance here.

The Nylander contract is no better than Marner's then and he keeps signing 4th liners to stupid contracts, so I am not too pleased with him.

Yes, I said that - he was leading by 6 points, largely because Matty missed 20 games.

At the time of his signing, Marner's best season was 26G, 94 pts. At the time of his signing, Nylander's best season was 40G, 87 pts. Was Marner's better?

Yes, leading your team in points is more impressive than coming in 2nd (in reality it should have been 3rd).

Was he the line driver in JT's first year? Possibly although I ddon't think so, but not since. Nylander is clearly the better line driver.

Define line driver... because it is not clear to me that is the case.

What's the "virtually everything else"? Forechecking, no. Passing is very close. What else?

Forechecking? They both suck, but Marner clearly is better at forcing the turnover and getting sticks/bodies in lanes.

Passing, ya, not close either.

You are bragging about Nylander's goals... take look at their assists.

We've seen Nylander drive his line for at least three seasons - I'm not sure I've ever seen Marner do it.

You haven't been watching long enough then.

"Multiple bad players" like Kadri, JVR, Bozak? That;s who he was mainly playing with in the 16-17 and 17-18 seasons.

Yes, Kadri and Marleau on a line with him doesn't scream "elite" players to me.

But my posts weren't a knock on Marner - just pointing out that Nylander's current contract is not a lot worse than Marner's, as some poster had claimed.

I still take Marner's season he signed over Nylander's best season.

I don't think they are very far off, but I'd probably take the guy signed through his prime instead of the guy signed past his prime, but that's just me.

We may have seen Nylander's best hockey, Marner was signed as someone who we still expected to grow.

 

[ACC1224]

The discussion was about his performance here.

Yes, I said that - he was leading by 6 points, largely because Matty missed 20 games.

At the time of his signing, Marner's best season was 26G, 94 pts. At the time of his signing, Nylander's best season was 40G, 87 pts. Was Marner's better?

Was he the line driver in JT's first year? Possibly although I ddon't think so, but not since. Nylander is clearly the better line driver.

What's the "virtually everything else"? Forechecking, no. Passing is very close. What else?

We've seen Nylander drive his line for at least three seasons - I'm not sure I've ever seen Marner do it.

"Multiple bad players" like Kadri, JVR, Bozak? That;s who he was mainly playing with in the 16-17 and 17-18 seasons.

But my posts weren't a knock on Marner - just pointing out that Nylander's current contract is not a lot worse than Marner's, as some poster had claimed.


I tend to agree, but I will usually add the caveat, which the poster had done in this instance.

He just missed it - no biggie.

He hasn't played under that contract yet so it's still unknown.

 

[Gallagbi]

Maybe just me, but when I say scoring it is about scoring.

You might have to qualify he scored an assist.
You don't have to qualify he scored.

"How as the game?"

"Well, Matthews scored 2."

Depends on context. Usually the leading scorer in the league refers to points. Who scores in the game is goals. You'll hear someone "scored a goal" but it's never phrased that way for points

I read your sentence as goals with how it was phrases, but it's not uncommon to hear scoring in a points context

 

[ULF_55]

Depends on context. Usually the leading scorer in the league refers to points. Who scores in the game is goals. You'll hear someone "scored a goal" but it's never progressed that way for points

I read your sentence as goals with how it was phrases, but it's not uncommon to hear scoring in a points context

As I said, might just be me but if someone said he scored, I'd never think it was an assist.

 

[Rare Jewel]

What is the "real roster issue" that he could have addressed but didn't?

The big boys. All four of them are still here.

Matthews is not going anywhere, and Nylander re-sign in January.

So, that left the other two realistically. Granted, Tavares is an awkward move, and Marner also has his NMC. But I get the impression that even without those, Treliving/Shanahan still seems content to run it back yet again despite saying they would look at it in the spring.

And, if they were to view the evidence of the past eight seasons, one would think they would opt for change even if that means perhaps a softer deal for Marner, who's likely to walk next summer anyway. Or even an uncomfortable conversation with Tavares.

And BTW, resigning him (Marner) to what he and DF will want means whatever amount more years in cap purgatory with the same group who, on the ice, have underachieved.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Honest question - why did you say it's false that Nylander scores more goals than Marner in both regular season and playoffs?

Probably because Dekes and Notbias use the term scoring in a chameleon type fashion. When you say scoring (and mean goals) they take it to mean points which are not equal and they know it...but it lets them argue their point that Mitchy is the cats meow.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Poor Brad. You can't clean up a Dubas mess in one year when no one wants to come here unless you overpay them. The Leafs need to stop overpaying proven losers i.e Marner and go back to the draft.

 

[Racer88]

What team has had the same allocation as us in general?

If the answer is no one else, it is an idiotic question and the sample size is too small.

What is the perfect allocation?

Would a team of MacKinnon, McDavid, Matthews, and Bedard make you say the same thing? It's the same allocation.

It is such a boring and stupid talking point, it can be the players, but blindly yell "cap" is silly.

It’s hardly an idiotic statement. It is simply a counter to your idiotic statement that other teams have kept their cores together and won.
You can bury your head in the sand but cap allocation is very important
We all get it that you live Dubas but maybe head over to the pen’s page and cheer him on

 

[Racer88]

I don't care if they pivot, I just want them to be better if they do.

Making a trade doesn't guarantee that.



I see a bunch of secondary players being moved.

Was the 2nd or 3rd best player moved in any of these situations?

Did the team bottom out after they were moved?

I think we can remove any team who circumvented the cap unless we can also do that, and then who cares, just bring on another $10 million in cap and don't change our roster.

The only team that really made a big move and it worked was Florida, they should thank Tre for it...

Everyone else either cheated the cap, kept their core, or sucked and drafted their best player.

Ahhhhh we got cheated by the other teams. We can add that to the list of excuses

 

[notbias]

It’s hardly an idiotic statement. It is simply a counter to your idiotic statement that other teams have kept their cores together and won.
You can bury your head in the sand but cap allocation is very important
We all get it that you live Dubas but maybe head over to the pen’s page and cheer him on

Can you respond to this?

Would a team of MacKinnon, McDavid, Matthews, and Bedard make you say the same thing?

I have a feeling that you think this team could win, so maybe it isn't allocation but actually the players.

That's why I hate the idiotic argument about the cap, because it's not the cap.

Ahhhhh we got cheated by the other teams. We can add that to the list of excuses

Are you drunk? What are you talking about?

I think Vegas and Tampa cheated, you can disagree, but this isn't a unique thought.

 

[Racer88]

Probably because Dekes and Notbias use the term scoring in a chameleon type fashion. When you say scoring (and mean goals) they take it to mean points which are not equal and they know it...but it lets them argue their point that Mitchy is the cats meow.

True story

 

[notbias]

Probably because Dekes and Notbias use the term scoring in a chameleon type fashion. When you say scoring (and mean goals) they take it to mean points which are not equal and they know it...but it lets them argue their point that Mitchy is the cats meow.

What is "the scoring race"?

Many people use it in multiple ways.

Type in "scoring NHL" in Google, and every link is referencing points.

Does no one watch hockey here?

True story

 

[Racer88]

Can you respond to this?

Would a team of MacKinnon, McDavid, Matthews, and Bedard make you say the same thing?

I have a feeling that you think this team could win, so maybe it isn't allocation but actually the players.

That's why I hate the idiotic argument about the cap, because it's not the cap.



Are you drunk? What are you talking about?

I think Vegas and Tampa cheated, you can disagree, but this isn't a unique thought.

All being forwards I would absolutely be suspect of them not being able to build a decent team around them and certainly after 7 years of them failing (like the leafs ) I would say the same thing.
Yes Vegas and Tampa bent the rules but that’s not why we only have 1 round win in the last 8
However our players don’t help the poor allocation either

 

[notbias]

All being forwards I would absolutely be suspect of them not being able to build a decent team around them and certainly after 7 years of them failing (like the leafs ) I would say the same thing.
Yes Vegas and Tampa bent the rules but that’s not why we only have 1 round win in the last 8

You think a team with Mac, McDavid, Matthews, and Bedard would struggle to build around them?

There is no hope, your hockey knowledge is nonexistent.