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Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

hamzarocks said:
1. The defense is not set. Morgan Rielly has a albatross deal that will cost us to trade potentially. We are relying on defense which is not good enough vs elite teams. McCabe, OEL, Carlo, Tanev is a good 2nd round defense but it can't be a defense for a final 4 team. We are missing a top 10-15 #1D and have no assets to acquire such a player if one was available. Big risks of decline to Tanev and McCabe as they age with Tanev entering his 36 year old season next year.

2. There is no offensive core on this team. The best players all dwindle away and produce next to nothing in tight checking games. The core 4 guys suck and even if you get rid of 16 and 34 the chances of getting 3 of Bennett, boesor, Ehlers, Granlund to come here to replace them isn't high. You most likely get mid tier UFAs to 1-2 year deals and pray 97 comes to save us in 2026 which is super unrealistic.

3. We have no future assets of value outside of Cowan worth a decent 2st and Danford worth a 2nd after a bad D+1 year. Expect no future additions of note at the TDL for next few years as we lack assets big time.

4. We have a super injury prone goalie in stolarz. Even if you deal Woll and run a tandem, Stolarz isn't a guy you can rely on to be healthy and consistently good.

The team had a better season than any under dubas + Keefe sure, but it was built to win now and came not even 50% of the way there. The team is a joke and Is poised to be a 1st/2nd round exit team next year.

We will be rebuilding by 2028 when our 1st rounders are back
Click to expand...

#1 we don't need 3 of Ehlers, Bosser, Bennett or Granlund we need 1,2 of them would be nice but they need 1, ideally It's Bennett that way he's not giving our goalies concussions, I also suspect they will go hard after Granlund because we know they have been after Granlund for about 3 years.

#2 you say we have no assets to trade, I've been watching this sport long enough and seen enough trades to know that's not true.

Teams never run out of assets to trade, they just don't.

You can't even tell me what Calgary got for Marc Savard from Atlanta without looking it up because they gave him away.

What top prospects or draft picks did Boston get for Joe Thornton?

They didn't.

What top prospects or draft did Pittsburgh OR Washington get for Jagr?

They didn't Washington got Anson Carter, I don't even remember what Pittsburgh got because it's irrelevant.

What did Washington get for Anson Carter? A random prospect.

Teams never run out of assets to trade it simply doesn't happen there is ALWAYS a way.

If Minnesota really does want to move Rossi I'd be all over that because it sounds like Bill Geruin doesn't even want him, which I find really odd considering he's a 23 year old 60 point center.

Even if it costs Cowan I'd be all over that because I think you could build around Rossi and Knies.

Also Cowan is worth more than a 2nd that's ridiculous.

They need changes nobody is denying that.

But you and others like you are acting like they need to burn it down and that's just not true.
 
leafs in five said:
what do the dots and the o's on the bars mean?
Click to expand...

The unfilled circle is raw game score (what all the bars added up together equal basically).

The filled circle is the raw game score adjusted for qot/qoc.

Game Score is a great stat for anyone who insists context be provided. Other statistics that adjust for qoc/qot, among other contextual factors, include WAR and xG models.

A lot of posters on this site dismiss "advanced" stats, probably because they lack the mathematical understanding on how these models work to appreciate them, but most of them are simple counting statistics like plus/minus that can be adjusted or fine tuned for context.

NHL teams pay mega bucks for these models and the analysts who produce them for a reason... they're valuable tools to help analyze players and teams... and anyone dismissing them outright as worthless shouldn't be taken seriously.
 
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The issue with framing this latest season/playoffs as a step forward for the team, is that Tre was brought in to finish Shanny's vision for the team - what we've just witnessed was the cumulative moment of all that, the grand finale. And it was another flop.

Assuming the MLSE board doesn't renew Shanny's contract, and likely won't fire Tre, there's at least degree of interest to see what Tre can do without set guardrails, but there's very few assets remaining after this most recent tdl. He's going to have to think pre radically over the next few months.

They've got the 2025 2nd*/3rd, 2027 2nd/3rd Cowan and Danford to try and make trades in the short term that have any real value.

*Technically Florida's 2nd

Edit: Woll probably has value and Robertson likely returns mid round (3rd or 4th) round pick - to add to moveable assets
 
Last edited:
Menzinger said:
The issue with framing this latest season/playoffs as a step forward for the team, is that Tre was brought in to finish Shanny's vision for the team - what we've just witnessed was the cumulative moment of all that, the grand finale. And it was another flop.

Assuming the MLSE board doesn't renew Shanny's contract, and likely won't fire Tre, there's at least degree of interest to see what Tre can do without set guardrails, but there's very few assets remaining after this most recent tdl. He's going to have to think pre radically over the next few months.

They've got the 2025 2nd*/3rd, 2027 2nd/3rd Cowan and Danford to try and make trades in the short term that have any real value.

*Technically Florida's 2nd

Edit: Woll probably has value and Robertson likely returns mid round (3rd or 4th) round pick - to add to moveable assets
Click to expand...

Is there any source for this or is it just an assumption?

Tre tried to trade Nylander, it seems to ruin this thought that he was just told to keep the core together.
 
Menzinger said:
The issue with framing this latest season/playoffs as a step forward for the team, is that Tre was brought in to finish Shanny's vision for the team - what we've just witnessed was the cumulative moment of all that, the grand finale. And it was another flop.

Assuming the MLSE board doesn't renew Shanny's contract, and likely won't fire Tre, there's at least degree of interest to see what Tre can do without set guardrails, but there's very few assets remaining after this most recent tdl. He's going to have to think pre radically over the next few months.

They've got the 2025 2nd*/3rd, 2027 2nd/3rd Cowan and Danford to try and make trades in the short term that have any real value.

*Technically Florida's 2nd

Edit: Woll probably has value and Robertson likely returns mid round (3rd or 4th) round pick - to add to moveable assets
Click to expand...

Said it before and I'll say it again I do not believe teams ever run out of tradeable assets, I've watched this sport for to long and seen to many trades.

I've seem Jagr, Thornton, Marc Savard, Alex Kovalev and Iliya Kovalchuk all basically gift wraped just to name a few.

In fact Jagr was gift wraped twice.

If It's true that Minnesota doesn't even want him, you can't convince me that Treliving doesn't have the assets to acquire Rossi for example.

Seriously I don't get why Minnesota is even considering this.
 
notbias said:
Is there any source for this or is it just an assumption?

Tre tried to trade Nylander, it seems to ruin this thought that he was just told to keep the core together.
Click to expand...
I'd say that's an overstatement (though that's the way some people have tried to spin it). He tested the market, decided that Nylander was worth more than teams were willing to pay (as is almost always the case for star players) so he decided to keep him. What he should have done was test the marked for Marner, as far as I know he neve did that and it's hard to argue that that wasn't his biggest mistake to this point in time.
 
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Gary Nylund said:
I'd say that's an overstatement (though that's the way some people have tried to spin it). He tested the market, decided that Nylander was worth more than teams were willing to pay (as is almost always the case for star players) so he decided to keep him. What he should have done was test the marked for Marner, as far as I know he neve did that and it's hard to argue that that wasn't his biggest mistake to this point in time.
Click to expand...
But to be fair, he was hired a month efore Marner's no trade kicked in, and unless Shanahan had told him he supported moving Marner at that time. there was no way a Marner trade could happen in that short window.
 
hamzarocks said:
1. The defense is not set. Morgan Rielly has a albatross deal that will cost us to trade potentially. We are relying on defense which is not good enough vs elite teams. McCabe, OEL, Carlo, Tanev is a good 2nd round defense but it can't be a defense for a final 4 team. We are missing a top 10-15 #1D and have no assets to acquire such a player if one was available. Big risks of decline to Tanev and McCabe as they age with Tanev entering his 36 year old season next year.

2. There is no offensive core on this team. The best players all dwindle away and produce next to nothing in tight checking games. The core 4 guys suck and even if you get rid of 16 and 34 the chances of getting 3 of Bennett, boesor, Ehlers, Granlund to come here to replace them isn't high. You most likely get mid tier UFAs to 1-2 year deals and pray 97 comes to save us in 2026 which is super unrealistic.

3. We have no future assets of value outside of Cowan worth a decent 2st and Danford worth a 2nd after a bad D+1 year. Expect no future additions of note at the TDL for next few years as we lack assets big time.

4. We have a super injury prone goalie in stolarz. Even if you deal Woll and run a tandem, Stolarz isn't a guy you can rely on to be healthy and consistently good.

The team had a better season than any under dubas + Keefe sure, but it was built to win now and came not even 50% of the way there. The team is a joke and Is poised to be a 1st/2nd round exit team next year.

We will be rebuilding by 2028 when our 1st rounders are back
Click to expand...
Rielly is the only piece that needs to be replaced on D.

McCabe Tanev
OEL Carlo
Benoit PMD
 
sxvnert said:
Rielly is the only piece that needs to be replaced on D.

McCabe Tanev
OEL Carlo
Benoit PMD
Click to expand...
McCabe got exposed hard again for 2nd time vs FLA. We should have him as the #3 who takes less defensive minutes, have tanev as the tough defensive minutes #2, and Carlo #4 who plays a lot of PK and moderate 5v5 defensive matchups

We need #1D who is a All situations type that can give 50+ pts.

Can't think of any who are available though as UFAs or via Trade
 
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hamzarocks said:
McCabe got exposed hard again for 2nd time vs FLA. We should have him as the #3 who takes less defensive minutes, have tanev as the tough defensive minutes #2, and Carlo #4 who plays a lot of PK and moderate 5v5 defensive matchups

We need #1D who is a All situations type that can give 50+ pts.

Can't think of any who are available though as UFAs or via Trade
Click to expand...
Agreed on McCabe.

Ideally you would want a true #1 with Tanev to push Caber down the lineup.

Problem is you'll end up with this:

#1 Tanev
Benoit McCabe
OEL Carlo

or

#1 Tanev
OEL McCabe
Benoit Carlo
 
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Tre is the most successful GM for the Leafs since Quinn as his Leafs won 7 games in ONE playoffs, woohooo.

For real, this is a big summer for Tre, we talked about legacy game for the Core 5, this is a Legacy Summer for Tre.

Trade Reilly to Nucks for Quinn and AM to Devils for the other two Hughes.

Then sign Bennett, Marchand, Tanev and Brown
 
sxvnert said:
Agreed on McCabe.

Ideally you would want a true #1 with Tanev to push Caber down the lineup.

Problem is you'll end up with this:

#1 Tanev
Benoit McCabe
OEL Carlo

or

#1 Tanev
OEL McCabe
Benoit Carlo
Click to expand...
Just trade Reilly for Quinn Hughes and the D will be set.

Quinn-Tanev
McCabe-Carlo
Benoit-OEL

Myers and Hughes as subs
 
One of the things Tree now needs to reconcile is a group of players that fans are now sick of watching. Sick of it.

Combine that with what was some god awful hockey in the regular season to watch..

That alone is something Tree needs to deal with and a reason to change things up so we at least have players compatible with Berube's anti hockey systems.

Ideally, we clean it all out but if he's willing to find players for Berube.. we will probably all live with it.
 
Thornbury said:
But to be fair, he was hired a month efore Marner's no trade kicked in, and unless Shanahan had told him he supported moving Marner at that time. there was no way a Marner trade could happen in that short window.
Click to expand...
Sure it could, a month is more than enough time. Look how quickly Carolina moved Rantanen when it became clear he wasn't staying there long term.
 
sxvnert said:
Agreed on McCabe.

Ideally you would want a true #1 with Tanev to push Caber down the lineup.

Problem is you'll end up with this:

#1 Tanev
Benoit McCabe
OEL Carlo

or

#1 Tanev
OEL McCabe
Benoit Carlo
Click to expand...
Werenski or Quinn Hughes would be perfect 1D for us and complete our defense to be best in the league #1 to a

Werenski - Tanev
McCabe - OEL
Benoit - Carlo

Unfortunately the time to have gotten them was wayyy before. Marner maybe in 2023 pre NMC could have gotten Werenski or Quinn Hughes but now no assets to get that type of player
 
Interesting comment in the Johnston "atomic bomb" thread. He said Tre was told when he was hired the core 4 had already been told they weren't being moved. So much for that criticism.
 
Gary Nylund said:
Sure it could, a month is more than enough time. Look how quickly Carolina moved Rantanen when it became clear he wasn't staying there long term.
Click to expand...
Marner leaving for nothing is all on Shanahan...what a freakin' clown to put the organization in this position...Shanahan and Dubas has done the most damage to this team.
 
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