Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Never said which team is better, just pointing out that the argument we suddenly have bigger D is wrong.

I don't know why everyone gets upset when they say something wrong and are corrected.



This is what changing the subject looks like when you know your original comment is wrong.

A lot of words when you could have just said "You are right, the D we have now are not any bigger than years past".

So if our D isn't bigger or better...how are we winning? Aren't you guys the ones that were worried that Tre was building this team incorrectly because our problem in past series was goal scoring and not Defense? Funny how having a good D and a coach that made them "Practice" like its the playoffs for 82 games worked out well for the offense.

I think we are more like Montreal in the year they went to the finals. They had great goaltending, a stout D that wouldn't let you get to the net and were potting any real chance they got with a lot of odd man rushes. Sounds like the 2025 playoff Leafs...do you agree?

 

[Stephen]

I'm still wondering why Fenway Sports has not fired him yet ??

He was brought into the Pens organization with a direct mandate to give Crosby and Malkin a few more runs at the Stanley Cup in their later years.

So he inherits a team that finishes just outside the playoffs with 91 points (missing them by a single point) and now after 2 years has delivered 2 embarrassing non playoff finishes including an 80 point finish in 2024-25 & below .500.

View attachment 1032678

He fired his coach Sullivan recently to save his own ass, but its his own gross incompetence in understanding team building that should have been shown the door. IMO

View attachment 1032681
How this snake oil salesman keeps fooling people into believing he has a clue about anything is what's most puzzling, because even when all his failures are pointed out as clear as day he still seems to charm some caught up his glare.

Mercifully, that's all behind us now as we have a real GM in Treliving and the results speak for themselves. While Leaf Nation now basks in the enjoyment of winning and team success like we haven't had in a long time.

If I’m Fenway I probably just let Dubas President and GM his way through a few tank years a la Eddie Johnston and then hand over the whole operation to another president and GM duo once his contract is running down and the prospect pool is looking deeper.

 

[1specter]

So if our D isn't bigger or better...how are we winning? Aren't you guys the ones that were worried that Tre was building this team incorrectly because our problem in past series was goal scoring and not Defense? Funny how having a good D and a coach that made them "Practice" like its the playoffs for 82 games worked out well for the offense.

I think we are more like Montreal in the year they went to the finals. They had great goaltending, a stout D that wouldn't let you get to the net and were potting any real chance they got with a lot of odd man rushes. Sounds like the 2025 playoff Leafs...do you agree?

I like to use 2018 Capitals as a comparison rather than a fluke lottery team that made it on the back of Carey Price going god mode in a pandemic season.

 

[Dekes For Days]

We’ve won double the playoff games as in 2021. How were there good results in 2021?

The discussion was about defensive results...

 

[DarkKnight]

If I’m Fenway I probably just let Dubas President and GM his way through a few tank years a la Eddie Johnston and then hand over the whole operation to another president and GM duo once his contract is running down and the prospect pool is looking deeper.

I watched Dubas after he fired the coach. Hadn't seen him in awhile and was struck by how diminished he looked and sounded, it was quite something compared to his persona here. I don't think he lasts, they're in for a couple dismal years and his linguistics abilities don't have the same resonance, his confidence looked shot...or at least his narcissistic arrogance that he knows best was shaken. The press seemed hostile as well.

 

[Stephen]

The discussion was about defensive results...

No it isn’t. It’s a tiresome Kyle Dubas vs everybody debate that happened to land on defensive results by proxy.

 

[sunstersun]

Hmm, I was under the impression he had three goals and two assists in eight playoff games. Guess I was mistaken.

Stacked up games 1-4.

4 donuts in a row. Better not be a 5th.

 

[DarkKnight]

The big dumb defence Tre has brought in are one goal away from a Leafs playoff record. 9 straight goals they've been in on. Wow.

If only we had a Tyson Barrie, Dermott or Liligren back there.

 

[Dekes For Days]

No it isn’t.

Yes, it was. The discussion started with a graphic stating "Best D in the NHL, fewest goals against at 5v5 among playoff teams." I asked "We had the fewest goals against at 5v5 among playoff teams in 2021 too. Did we have the best D in the NHL that year?" to see if there was consistency in how that conclusion was applied. That's when you jumped in.

The "results" you referenced was from my post stating "You do realize that we're currently playing with the exact same number of RHD, right..? The only difference is that the 2021 defense also featured a LHD who played on the right side long before he got to us, and did it well. It wasn't poorly constructed. It had a good mixture of body types and roles, and that's why it got good results.". Clearly referring to the defensive results I had been discussing the entire time. Then for some reason you started talking about playoff wins, because apparently it's impossible to have a discussion about literally anything around here without it devolving into but.. but.. but.. playoff wins.

 

[Gabriel426]

I would disagree with that.

Marner has 10 points in 8 games

Matthews has 8 points in 8 games

Even Knies has 5 points in 8 games.

That line has 23 points in 8 games.

Nylander has been playing great there is no question about that.

I'm just not sure why people think he's the only one pulling his weight.

Now I would agree he's been the best player.

But he's not the only player pulling his weight.

when you are the highest paid player in the league, certain expectations apply.

Look at that McD did, had AM done that in any clutch situations so far this playoffs?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

when you are the highest paid player in the league, certain expectations apply.

Look at that McD did, had AM done that in any clutch situations so far this playoffs?

At this point nope.

And yet at the time that I write this they are up 2-0 in their 2nd round series and he has 8 points in 8 games.

he's producing you just don't notice because Nylander is exploding

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

the sentiment that nothing has changed, same old losers, insanity is doing the same thing etc etc, was widespread on here throughout the season, as it was in previous seasons. there are only a few regulars who have been steadfast believers throughout, and the most visible one (homer) was mocked relentlessly for his optimism.

It's basically been me and Homer.

I legitimately can't think of anyone else.

I'm sure there probably is but off the top of my head I can't think of them.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I watched Dubas after he fired the coach. Hadn't seen him in awhile and was struck by how diminished he looked and sounded, it was quite something compared to his persona here. I don't think he lasts, they're in for a couple dismal years and his linguistics abilities don't have the same resonance, his confidence looked shot...or at least his narcissistic arrogance that he knows best was shaken. The press seemed hostile as well.

The most off-putting thing about Dumbass is the unearned arrogance that just seems to waft off of him like bad cologne. It would be one thing if he had Theo Epstein level of success as a young "genius." It's another if your success is more to the level of JP Ricciardi. lol

I will say this in his defense though, he has a really hot sister.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Stacked up games 1-4.

View attachment 1032865

4 donuts in a row. Better not be a 5th.

Yes, it was. The discussion started with a graphic stating "Best D in the NHL, fewest goals against at 5v5 among playoff teams." I asked "We had the fewest goals against at 5v5 among playoff teams in 2021 too. Did we have the best D in the NHL that year?" to see if there was consistency in how that conclusion was applied. That's when you jumped in.

The "results" you referenced was from my post stating "You do realize that we're currently playing with the exact same number of RHD, right..? The only difference is that the 2021 defense also featured a LHD who played on the right side long before he got to us, and did it well. It wasn't poorly constructed. It had a good mixture of body types and roles, and that's why it got good results.". Clearly referring to the defensive results I had been discussing the entire time. Then for some reason you started talking about playoff wins, because apparently it's impossible to have a discussion about literally anything around here without it devolving into but.. but.. but.. playoff wins.

Correct because at the end of the day that's all the counts.

You can say they had the fewest 5 on 5 goals against in 2021 all you want.

It doesn't matter because at the end of the day they lost in 7.

You need to understand something you can't win an argument anymore.

It's over it's done, any argument you thought you had in favour of Keefe and Dubas or against Treliving and Berbue is over.

it ended the moment they won that 6th game regardless of how this playoffs ends

you and the rest of the cult of Kyle dubas

you lost

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

The big dumb defence Tre has brought in are one goal away from a Leafs playoff record. 9 straight goals they've been in on. Wow.

If only we had a Tyson Barrie, Dermott or Liligren back there.

Cha-Ching.

 

[Gabriel426]

At this point nope.

And yet at the time that I write this they are up 2-0 in their 2nd round series and he has 8 points in 8 games.

he's producing you just don't notice because Nylander is exploding

How many points had AM got in the 2nd round?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

How many points had AM got in the 2nd round?

At least 1 in game 2.

 

[notbias]

Cha-Ching.

The big dumb defence Tre has brought in are one goal away from a Leafs playoff record. 9 straight goals they've been in on. Wow.

If only we had a Tyson Barrie, Dermott or Liligren back there.

Random record, also, didn't happen...

I have been watching this team for years and in this era, we have not seen this. Two years ago when we beat Tampa in R1, we had 7 guys at 0.5 PPG, this squad has 11 guys at or above that mark.

Now at 7 + Robertson (2 GP).

Does the depth need to step it up now?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Random record, also, didn't happen...

It was true at the time. Not my fault the NHL changed the scoring.

 

[ClarkSittler]

View attachment 1032771

That os your PK goal differential... a lot of depth players, I skim your posts, I don't read them, not even sure what you're referring to with shorthanded goals.

I know you skim my posts, that's why your replies rarely make any sense.

So 11 for who you consider depth, and 17 for who you don't consider depth?

12 depth goals.

9 from the core four not name Nylander.

Depth should be doing more than that.

No they shouldn't.

McDavid has 2 goals so far, tell me he is not helping his team much, please.

Which GMs are taking Nylander over him?

Red Herring Fallacy

Knies has 0 goals without an assist by at least one of Marner/Matthews.

Line changes =/= playing in the bottom six...

This would mean that every time Marner and Knies change and Lorentz and Jankrok come out, Matthews is playing in the bottom six, this is another dumb idea.

Red Herring Fallacy.

 

[ClarkSittler]

I read your post thoroughly. I provided evidence. You just don't like being wrong. I gave you exactly what you asked for, and then you dismissed it. And it's really hypocritical. You complain about the validity of listed weights, but your entire argument is listed weights. You complain about using listed weights from a few months before and after the playoffs, but you're trying to use a weight from literally years after that playoffs. Somehow, explaining to you why small weight fluctuations like that would be normal given his circumstances is "conspiracy theory nonsense". Meanwhile, you're creating this entire narrative about how his development progressed based on nothing but random assumptions, and you refuse to consider any other possibility.

The only one that has provided evidence from that timeframe is me. Everything you've provided is years removed.

If you’re going to claim you “provided evidence” that Byram lost five pounds post-combine, the burden is on you to back it with credible, consistent sources — not vague mentions, outdated listings, or speculative blog posts. Weight fluctuations of a few pounds happen all the time and don’t necessarily indicate anything meaningful unless it's confirmed by official team data or a reliable, timestamped source.

Citing outdated sources—like the one referencing his brief two-game stint with the Colorado Eagles—is almost comically unreliable. It’s hard to believe that the first thing they did upon his arrival was weigh him and promptly update the website with that information.


If all you've got is hearsay or inconsistencies between media guides and broadcasts, that’s not “evidence” , that’s grasping at straws. Let’s hold claims to the same standard we expect from actual reporting.

Mhm, that sounds like context about what we faced. We're not allowed that, remember? But hey, I'll entertain you.

Montreal was 21st in 5v5 scoring that year at 2.27 goals/60.
Ottawa was 28th in 5v5 scoring that year at 2.12 goals/60.
So Ottawa was actually a worse 5v5 scoring team.

Also, both of the other teams Montreal faced on their way to the finals (Winnipeg and Vegas) did a worse job against them preventing 5v5 goals.

Citation please. Regular season stats aren't relevant to the discussion anyway, try to stay on topic please.

As usual, I didn't cherry pick anything. I used the only stat provided that was about defensive results. The only other thing there was stuff about playstyle. If I was really choosing, I wouldn't be using a combination defense/goaltending stat to talk about defense, but I'm trying to work with the posted graphic here.

You don’t think shot blocking impacts defensive performance? That’s interesting, considering every NHL team makes it a core part of their strategy. But hey, maybe you know something they don’t.

That's certainly a weird deflection to something that has nothing to do with the discussion.

I see, you brought it into the discussion and since you're too cowardly to answer, it's morphed into a deflection. Got it.

It's okay to admit you're wrong. Remember that?

Might be time you did that.

 

[ClarkSittler]

Use Pittsburgh's team, they won more Cups and had an undersized D.

Why do you love Red Herring fallacious arguments so much. He asked you about Tampa's defense, why can't you answer?

 

[conFABulator]

Random record, also, didn't happen...



Now at 7 + Robertson (2 GP).

Does the depth need to step it up now?

Did you just come on here after an OT loss to update this?

My point here is that this team seems different to me. I believe this has to do with all of the new personnel, the new captain, the new coaches, and the new GM. Possibly the new CEO too.

Do you not think this team is different and purpose built for the playoffs than in previous years?

It's a yes or no question.

 

[IPS]

I think if you're trying to say that a D core with Dermott, Sandin and Lilly were not smaller than average...I don't know what to tell you. You keep bringing up the Avs D as if they won 4 cups in those 10yrs....they won 1 cup. Why not compare Tampa's D size? They won 2 cups and went to the finals 2 other times over the last 10yrs. I don't remember seeing a small D when they were winning cups in TB.

Why is the Avs D relevant anyway? They have Cale Makar, the normal rules don't apply.

 

[notbias]

Did you just come on here after an OT loss to update this?

My point here is that this team seems different to me. I believe this has to do with all of the new personnel, the new captain, the new coaches, and the new GM. Possibly the new CEO too.

Do you not think this team is different and purpose built for the playoffs than in previous years?

It's a yes or no question.

No, I just checked my tagged posts and there were a few in here that I didn't respond to because I was watching the game.

I think the team is largely the same, the same core pieces leading the team, they have just been playing poor goaltenders.

Mind you, they have overcome poor goaltending too.

This team has had good D, good depth, and good goaltending.

The core all scoring in the same playoffs is the difference so far.

I think Treliving did a fairly good job, especially compared to the disaster last year, the philosophy is largely the same, and he just did a good job while sacrificing the future.

Why do you love Red Herring fallacious arguments so much. He asked you about Tampa's defense, why can't you answer?

We are discussing if you need large D to win, why are you fixated on one team? I am showing teams with smaller D that won, it is not hard logic to follow.

Sure, Tampa is a team with larger D, check out Pittsburgh who had smaller D, that is far more relevant to our conversation.

Tampa also won because of their small forwards.

I know you skim my posts, that's why your replies rarely make any sense.

Why would I read such terrible logic constantly?

12 depth goals.

9 from the core four not name Nylander.

Top 6 vs bottom 6, how is that going?

Knies with another goal assisted by both Marner and Matthews last night, that is why he is producing the way he is.

No they shouldn't.

The bottom 6 has been absolutely terrible, sorry.

Red Herring Fallacy

You presented an argument that a player with more goals is far more important than a player with more assists.

I presented two players that fit the narrative, sorry you are not smart enough to make that connection.

Which player are you taking in this scenario?

Red Herring Fallacy.

Did you think you learned something new?

You keep saying this like you think you know what you are talking about.

When discussing depth scoring and if Knies/Pacioretty are indeed depth or not since they are likely a product of who they are playing with, I think this is relevant.

Your posts are getting worse which is impressive at least.