Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[ClarkSittler]

"Colorado had the best playoff record in the last decade with one of the softest defenses in the league, thinking you need big tough D to win is wrong."

Can't read.

I can read just fine. Everything you said above is laughably wrong. Their cup winning D wasn't soft and all cup winning teams in the last decade had at least 4 big defenceman.

Nowhere did I say they were great because of having smaller D, but Colorado put more value in their smallest D over their bigger D that year.

You claimed they had the best playoff record in the last decade because of their smaller defense. So it wasn't because of the small defense? Why did you bother responding in the first place then?

Not soft, average size at best, but slightly under.

So, not soft and average size, well I guess softer, smaller D don't lead to winning the most playoff games in a decade. Thanks for clearing that up.

Sure use him, he was their 7th choice, Girard was their 4th.

And he played twice as many games during their cup run. Why would I not use him?

Slightly below average, but sure.

I see so 6'1 205 lbs is below average and not big. Well I guess we found the problem then.

Ignoring that this D core was not close to being big or mean is your issue, not mine.

That team won based on possession and skill, sorry if you missed the playoffs.

Oh now, it's D core lol. Way to move the goalposts.

I already proved 2/3 rds of the defense was at least average or bigger. Still waiting on that evidence showing all the soft, smaller defense on cup winning teams. I'm sure you're working on that now.

 

[DarkKnight]

It's fruitless debating with a guy who doesn't realize we're using a different system than the past.

Or who has a predetermined agenda to the point he rarely praises Treliving for the good moves he's made including the upgrade in coaching and personnel.

I binged on Leafs coverage today, I can’t even count how many different hockey people explicitly said we play differently, literally universal, because it’s so f***ing obvious. I have zero respect for guys like that, can’t even admit the most basic reality. Why even bother, checkers.

 

[ClarkSittler]

I binged on Leafs coverage today, I can’t even count how many different hockey people explicitly said we play differently, literally universal, because it’s so f***ing obvious. I have zero respect for guys like that, can’t even admit the most basic reality. Why even bother, checkers.

Yes but he knows better than all the experts.

 

[LeafEgo]

Colorado has only made it to one cup final in the last decade and the year they won their D wasn't small or soft at all.

It was in fact smaller and softer this year which is probably why they're out golfing right now.

Where do you come up with this nonsense anyway?


Colorado's Cup winning Defense:

Bowen Byram​

Defense -- shoots L
Height 6.01 -- Weight 205

Jack Johnson​

Defense -- shoots L
Height 6.02 -- Weight 225

Erik Johnson​

Defense -- shoots R
Height 6.04 -- Weight 225

Cale Makar​

Defense -- shoots R
Height 6.00 -- Weight 187

Josh Manson​

Defense -- shoots R
Height 6.03 -- Weight 218

Devon Toews​

Defense -- shoots L
Height 6.01 -- Weight 191

Feel free to present any evidence that a team full of smaller defensemen lead to cup wins. I’d be interested to know how many defensemen under 6 feet tall and 190 pounds were on each Stanley Cup-winning team over the past decade. Actually not really, I already know. There isn't very many and no more than 2 per team.

Of all cup finalists in recent history the Avs were on the lighter side for d men size but it's worth noting their carefully selected tdl pick up in Manson was probably the most physical player in the league that playoffs. Still remember him injuring two players in one shift, he was a wrecking ball. EJ was very mean as well.

 

[jaric1862]

I really like Treliving’s approach to team-building. Depth scoring is a great asset, but to win in the playoffs, you need a big, mobile defence and strong goaltending.

Dubas spent too much money and too many assets trying to build a powerhouse forward group from lines 1 through 4—and it came at the expense of the back end.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Well that sure as Hell wasn't pretty but they got it done again.

And AGAIN they got a goal from an unlikely source this time from Tanev.

I don't know about anyone else but I'm LOVING the offense from the defense, especially since It's not all Rielly.

We got goals from OEL, Benoit, Tanev and yes Rielly too.

Maybe it's Carlo's turn in game 2.

The win is all that truly matters but why not keep the depth scoring going?

LET'S GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Another 2 points for Patches tonight too.

That's looking like a hell of a pickup

 

[All Mod Cons]

Ties the great Kyle Dubas with 5 playoff wins in a single season.

 

[Mess]

If Treliving had his way the Leafs would currently have the top 2 scorers in the NHL,

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Tanev doesn't hit and provides 0 offense, he is now the unique one... Everything you just said could apply to him.

Well this aged well...

 

[notbias]

Well this aged well...

One game has changed my mind, thank you.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

One game has changed my mind, thank you.

You're quite welcome.

You're probably the only one who is expecting anything out of Tanev offensively.

 

[notbias]

You're quite welcome.

You're probably the only one who is expecting anything out of Tanev offensively.

Follow the thread before responding?

I am not expecting anything out of him offensively.

 

[kevsh]

Interesting contrast last night:

7pm: Treliving is up in the Leafs' box getting ready to watch his team start round 2. Dubas is on a Zoom call praying his team wins the draft lottery.

 

[sunstersun]

Dubas boot lickers were so illogical I can't possibly understand it.

I'll give him some credit. Some of the moves that didn't pan out made logical sense. After 5 seasons, you go with results over anything else and some people couldn't do it.

Like wot? I wanted to fire Keefe and Dubas after Montreal.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Berube is a much different coach than Keefe. He coaches a different structure and style, certainly more of a north-south team and less of a possession oriented approach. He also seems to demand or earn an accountability from players with how he manages the lineup and roster. Not with a heavy hand but he seems to have trust in the players and they seem to respect him.

He has a different style, but that style is not better. There is no difference in accountability/trust/respect.

Our D now including Tanev, McCabe (I know he didn't acquire him, but he added around him and re-signed him), Carlo, OEL, and Myers (possibly Hakanpaa as depth) is not something we gave seen before here.

We haven't seen those exact players (except McCabe), but we've had players that were just as good or better.

Obviously Stolarz is much better than Samsonov, Mrazek, etc.

Stolarz had a better regular season than we've gotten before (though in only 34 GP), but he has had a worse playoffs than past goalies.

He also seems to be building a team with less reliance on rentals and less turnover and churn.

No he doesn't. We had multiple rentals last year, and multiple deadline additions both years.

Most importantly, Marner and Tavares are not signed yet.

That's not good. That's bad.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Slightly below average, but sure.

The funniest part is that guy trying to use 2025 sizes while talking about a 2022 cup. Even in 2023 (more than a year after the cup), Byram was listed at 190 pounds, but apparently ClarkSittler thinks he was a 205 pound rookie.

 

[hullsy47]

He's got to get Matthews signed we all know that but at this point there is not a single thing he's done that we can be heavily critical of.

Bertuzzi and Domi were great signings that give the Leafs a fantastic top 6 instead of a top 4 with 2 guys you hope work out.

Klingberg filled the need for a secondary puck mover.

Reaves is probably signed for a year to long but this team NEEDED a player like him.

Gambell and Jones are both players we know can provide NHL minutes when injury happens.

You got a former NHL assistant coach as your AHL Head Coach.

And a former NHL Head coach as one of your NHL assistant coach with the other assistant being a cup winning assistant coach.

When the worst thing I can say is that Ryan Reaves should have been given a 2 year contract instead of 3 I think that's pretty good.

Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

Treliving sold me when he tried to aquirre rantanen
Guy is a skilled version of knies

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I really like Treliving’s approach to team-building. Depth scoring is a great asset, but to win in the playoffs, you need a big, mobile defence and strong goaltending.

Dubas spent too much money and too many assets trying to build a powerhouse forward group from lines 1 through 4—and it came at the expense of the back end.

You could certainly make that argument, but I think you could also make the argument he didn't spend enough on the forward group.

He always had the core 4, but from the time he was hired until his last year in 2023 when he FINALLY made the Ryan O'Reilly trade he never got them a legitimate support piece.

Once he did he finally won a round.

Sure you could say he tried with Foligno but he wasn't that guy.

While teams like Boston were picking up Charlie Coyle and Marcus Johansson in 2019 Dubas did NOTHING for a month after picking up Muzzin.

While Tampa was picking up Blake Coleman and Barclay Goodrow Kyle Dubas was trading Mason Marchment for Denis Malgain.

I mean sure he acquired Jared McCann.

and then left him unprotected because we HAD to keep Kerfoot and Holl, ESPECIALLY Holl, Dubas LOVED him some Justin Holl.

He also acquired Evan Rodrigues and then didn't sign him.

That trade does get an* because that trade saw them land the 15th pick and that's just unfortunate what happened there. RIP Amirov.

But you can absolutely be critical of him letting go of E Rod and McCann.

The ONLY legitimate support pieces he brought in up front were Ryan O'Reilly and Noel Acciari. And that was the year he finally won a round.

You say there was to much of an effort to build a powerhouse forward group, I don't think that's true I don't think that effort was ever made until his job was on the line.

And that's the difference between Dubas and Treliving.

Yes Treliving focused more on the defense and goaltending.

But he also brought in and Kept Max Domi who scored a game 2 winner and set up a series winner.

He brought in Laughton who came up with a game 6 block that might have won them the series.

He brought in Patches who has a series winning goal and was a HUGE part of winning game 1 last night.

Treliving from day 1 has brought in legitimate support pieces to help the core.

That's the difference

 

[ClarkSittler]

The funniest part is that guy trying to use 2025 sizes while talking about a 2022 cup. Even in 2023 (more than a year after the cup), Byram was listed at 190 pounds, but apparently ClarkSittler thinks he was a 205 pound rookie.

Not as funny as you believing Byrum was 190 lbs in 2023, but weighed 195 lbs at the 2019 NHL combine. I guess he went on a weight loss program once he entered the NHL, lost 5 lbs and then magically gained 15 lbs the following two years.

2019 NHL Combine Heights & Weights - The Hockey Writers NHL Entry Draft Latest News, Analysis & More

The NHL Combine has come and gone for another year. We have your heights and weights for those who took part in Saturday's fitness testing.

thehockeywriters.com

Bowen Byram Stats And News

Get all the latest stats, news, videos, and more on Bowen Byram.

www.nhl.com

 

[Dekes For Days]

Not as funny as you believing Byrum was 190 lbs in 2023, but weighed 195 lbs at the 2019 NHL combine.

What's funny about that? You don't think somebody can lose 5 pounds in 3-4 years? Couldn't have trimmed a bit of fat getting into NHL conditioning? Couldn't have lost some muscle mass during covid or injury recovery? Couldn't have had a lighter lunch? Really just sounds like Byram being 190 pounds hurts your argument.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

He has a different style, but that style is not better. There is no difference in accountability/trust/respect

The previous style didn't get us anywhere.

We haven't seen those exact players (except McCabe), but we've had players that were just as good or better

Last time vs FLA, our D featured Holl, Gio, Brodie, Schenn, and Lily. That's bad.

That's not good. That's bad

That's not bad

 

[ClarkSittler]

What's funny about that? You don't think somebody can lose 5 pounds in 3-4 years? Couldn't have trimmed a bit of fat getting into NHL conditioning? Couldn't have lost some muscle mass during covid or injury recovery? Couldn't have had a lighter lunch? Really just sounds like Byram being 190 pounds hurts your argument.

What’s funny is pretending it’s normal for an NHL player to lose weight after being drafted. These guys don’t get to the league and think, “You know what would really help me out here? Being smaller.” The whole goal is to add size and strength, not drop it. Sure, anyone can fluctuate a few pounds but acting like it’s totally reasonable for a young defenseman to shrink in his first few years in the NHL kind of ignores how pro development actually works. Most of these guys in their first few years hit training camp heavier every season, not lighter. I'd love to see a citation for this 190 lb claim, care to provide one?

Let's review shall we:

Byrum gets to the combine at 18 years old at 195 lbs but then has to drop 5 pounds over the ensuing 4 years because he needed to "trim some fat and get conditioned for the NHL (that's some super slow fat trimming), he then decides that isn't working and gains 15 lbs in 2 years. Yeah that sounds totally believable!

 

[Antropovsky]

I really like Treliving’s approach to team-building. Depth scoring is a great asset, but to win in the playoffs, you need a big, mobile defence and strong goaltending.

Dubas spent too much money and too many assets trying to build a powerhouse forward group from lines 1 through 4—and it came at the expense of the back end.

Powerhouse forwards?

Engvall, Jarnkrok, Kerfoot, Kampf, Spezza, Bunting, Kase,

I have no idea what Dubas was doing. I don't think he does either.

Leafs had Marner, Matthews, Nylander before he took over and Tavares was coming to Toronto regardless who was GM.

Year by year Dubas made the team worse, Andersen is still an NHL 1B goalie, Samsonov and Campbell fringe NHLers.

Bunting produced and everyone celebrated Dubas but look at him since leaving Matthews. Johnsson and Kapanen looked great and produced alot when they played with Matthews too.

Keefe is a bad coach.

Dubas a bad GM.

Who the hell hires a 32 year old GM with little hockey background and let's them hire a 39 year old coach who had just 7 years of CHL/AHL experience?

Just a masterclass of stupid by Shanahan.

Dubas is still way over his head, best parts of Pittsburgh are the parts he didn't touch. The rest hes just made a mess off. I'd be shocked if another gm has made anywhere near the amount of moves hes made in two years. Just a revolving door of him trying to uncover a hidden gem.

 

[Gabriel426]

You could certainly make that argument, but I think you could also make the argument he didn't spend enough on the forward group.

He always had the core 4, but from the time he was hired until his last year in 2023 when he FINALLY made the Ryan O'Reilly trade he never got them a legitimate support piece.

Once he did he finally won a round.

Sure you could say he tried with Foligno but he wasn't that guy.

While teams like Boston were picking up Charlie Coyle and Marcus Johansson in 2019 Dubas did NOTHING for a month after picking up Muzzin.

While Tampa was picking up Blake Coleman and Barclay Goodrow Kyle Dubas was trading Mason Marchment for Denis Malgain.

I mean sure he acquired Jared McCann.

and then left him unprotected because we HAD to keep Kerfoot and Holl, ESPECIALLY Holl, Dubas LOVED him some Justin Holl.

He also acquired Evan Rodrigues and then didn't sign him.

That trade does get an* because that trade saw them land the 15th pick and that's just unfortunate what happened there. RIP Amirov.

But you can absolutely be critical of him letting go of E Rod and McCann.

The ONLY legitimate support pieces he brought in up front were Ryan O'Reilly and Noel Acciari. And that was the year he finally won a round.

You say there was to much of an effort to build a powerhouse forward group, I don't think that's true I don't think that effort was ever made until his job was on the line.

And that's the difference between Dubas and Treliving.

Yes Treliving focused more on the defense and goaltending.

But he also brought in and Kept Max Domi who scored a game 2 winner and set up a series winner.

He brought in Laughton who came up with a game 6 block that might have won them the series.

He brought in Patches who has a series winning goal and was a HUGE part of winning game 1 last night.

Treliving from day 1 has brought in legitimate support pieces to help the core.

That's the difference

Didn’t Dubas signed and traded for JT, Spezza, Bunting, Foligno, Malgin, Gally, Kerfoot, Soup, while inherited Kadri, Brown, Hyman, Leivo, Moore, AJ, Engvall, and Kap. More than half of them scored 20 goals or more in a season for the Leafs.