Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[CabanaBoy5]

Muzzin looked a lot better to some because he was easily so much better than the rest of the group...and unique by being a larger guy who hit people. We now have a bunch of bigger hitters and Tanev might not look so far out in front of the pack compared to Muzzin...but that's because the rest of the D is so good.

This is the best defence group we've had in a long time. Treliving has built a defence that is playoff ready. They're big, have long sticks, tougher in front of the net. Muzzin was good but not on a Tanev level good.

 

[notbias]

Muzzin looked a lot better to some because he was easily so much better than the rest of the group...and unique by being a larger guy who hit people. We now have a bunch of bigger hitters and Tanev might not look so far out in front of the pack compared to Muzzin...but that's because the rest of the D is so good.

Tanev doesn't hit and provides 0 offense, he is now the unique one... Everything you just said could apply to him.

There have been unique D on every team we've had, the ones that stand out are because they are good, not unique.

Still, Muzzin > Tanev, and that is not a knock, Muzzin was just amazing.

 

[thewave]

It's a good sign for Tre. Dubas got to the 2nd round once in 6 years or however long the nightmare lasted

 

[Stephen]

Tanev doesn't hit and provides 0 offense, he is now the unique one... Everything you just said could apply to him.

There have been unique D on every team we've had, the ones that stand out are because they are good, not unique.

Still, Muzzin > Tanev, and that is not a knock, Muzzin was just amazing.

No one's inviting you to have a Muzzin vs Tanev debate.

The point is if Muzzin represents the kind of defenseman you want, why did the Dubas regime not build a blueline that had the traits of a Jake Muzzin? This is where the current blueline construction actually makes sense and is a massive improvement.

 

[notbias]

No one's inviting you to have a Muzzin vs Tanev debate.

The point is if Muzzin represents the kind of defenseman you want, why did the Dubas regime not build a blueline that had the traits of a Jake Muzzin? This is where the current blueline construction actually makes sense and is a massive improvement.

No one invited you to respond to me, but here we are, whining and responding.

Colorado had the best playoff record in the last decade with one of the softest defenses in the league, thinking you need big tough D to win is wrong.

The closest player to play like Muzzin on the team is McCabe, and he was acquired by Dubas.

Bogo/Schenn/Lub/McCabe/Muzzin/Gio, it is just false that they never assembled anything like this D, they always picked up these types of players.

Those are just the guys that will hit/fight/anything to win, there were guys like Tanev too who don't do anything physical but will sacrifice, none of these types of players are unique.

This board has collective amnesia on the players that were acquired under the last GM, we have done the same thing over and over.

 

[colchar]

Tanev doesn't hit and provides 0 offense

Providing offense isn't his f***ing job.

Still, Muzzin > Tanev, and that is not a knock, Muzzin was just amazing.

 

[notbias]

Providing offense isn't his f***ing job.

I agree, and it is why he is not the best D we've had, thanks for agreeing.

 

[TopCheeseShotta]

Regardless of the spats above this defence is much tighter than years past. Much more composed. Very little panic. Clear the front of the net strongly. Limit the # of open rebounds in front. True, we've tried to assemble some bruisers before, but this 6 outside of Mo are fully about that life.. gotta luv it..

 

[arso40]

No one invited you to respond to me, but here we are, whining and responding.

Colorado had the best playoff record in the last decade with one of the softest defenses in the league, thinking you need big tough D to win is wrong.

The closest player to play like Muzzin on the team is McCabe, and he was acquired by Dubas.

Bogo/Schenn/Lub/McCabe/Muzzin/Gio, it is just false that they never assembled anything like this D, they always picked up these types of players.

Those are just the guys that will hit/fight/anything to win, there were guys like Tanev too who don't do anything physical but will sacrifice, none of these types of players are unique.

This board has collective amnesia on the players that were acquired under the last GM, we have done the same thing over and over.

Never had enough of them 1 isnt enough we know have 4 of them and 2 of them are right handed

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Leafs never had this strong a collection of top four defensemen at the same time. Not only under Dubas but going back to even those Quinn teams. We were always 3/4 of the way there. The closest we were before this season was probably 2022 with Rielly, Muzzin, pre-washed Brodie, and a still near-elite Giordano eating the most minutes. And even then the pairings were technically Rielly-Lyubushkin, Giordano-Holl, and Muzzin-Brodie as the shutdown pair during that postseason; a fractured top four.

The top four of defence for the Leafs for the first time since the 90s under Burns is truly complete. No top four player is forced to have to carry an obvious bottom pairing guy around like in years past. Dubas of course gets credit for McCabe, great trade. But it came after Muzzin's career was cut short. Would've been nice to see Rielly, Muzzin, and Brodie with one more legitimate guy instead of the carousel of liabilities we did get to round out the D.

 

[Sypher04]

Regardless of the spats above this defence is much tighter than years past. Much more composed. Very little panic. Clear the front of the net strongly. Limit the # of open rebounds in front. True, we've tried to assemble some bruisers before, but this 6 outside of Mo are fully about that life.. gotta luv it..

We also have all of Tanev, McCabe, Carlo, OEL and Benoit locked up for 2+ more years at only like $17M. That’s very tidy work

 

[Dekes For Days]

The point is if Muzzin represents the kind of defenseman you want, why did the Dubas regime not build a blueline that had the traits of a Jake Muzzin?

They picked up a bunch of defensemen with Muzzin traits. But you're not going to find 6 clones of a player as good and rare as Muzzin, and you wouldn't really want to anyway. Muzzin is one of the kinds of defensemen you want. Because what actually makes a good blueline is a good range and balance of skills and traits that can compliment each other and fill different roles. That's exactly what we had, and it led to the best defensive results this team has gotten in decades.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Leafs never had this strong a collection of top four defensemen at the same time. Not only under Dubas but going back to even those Quinn teams. We were always 3/4 of the way there. The closest we were before this season was probably 2022 with Rielly, Muzzin, pre-washed Brodie, and a still near-elite Giordano eating the most minutes. And even then the pairings were technically Rielly-Lyubushkin, Giordano-Holl, and Muzzin-Brodie as the shutdown pair during that postseason; a fractured top four.

The top four of defence for the Leafs for the first time since the 90s under Burns is truly complete. No top four player is forced to have to carry an obvious bottom pairing guy around like in years past. Dubas of course gets credit for McCabe, great trade. But it came after Muzzin's career was cut short. Would've been nice to see Rielly, Muzzin, and Brodie with one more legitimate guy instead of the carousel of liabilities we did get to round out the D.

Not quite 'never'. Horton, Stanley, Brewer, and Baun were so good that Red Kelly, who had won 4 Cups as a defencemen, could play forward (and win 4 more).

 

[tuckerintensity]

This board has collective amnesia on the players that were acquired under the last GM, we have done the same thing over and over.

There is far too much of this around here, it's weird. Like you can't admit that both guys have done some really good things (and both have had some big misses, as all GMs do). Treliving has retooled really well, and there are a lot of pieces from all of the Shanahan era (and even a holdover from before) that weren't Treliving's doing that he obviously likes.

This series will be interesting. I can only assume this is the exact series that Treliving was building for, the one he had in mind when he took over. Certainly the game tape he watched when he showed up. And a big part of that team is two of his draft picks that he traded to them. I feel like it might be a bit personal for him (though he doesn't strike me as that guy outwardly) and it'll be so good if this team takes him down for him and fans alike.

 

[sxvnert]

At the deadline Tre could have brought in a much deeper set of 13th/14th forwards & #7th/#8th D instead of Robertson/Kampf/Myers/Mermis.

• Brandon Tanev for a 2027 2nd
• Luke Kunin for 2025 4th
• Mark Jankowski for 2026 5th
• Nico Sturm and 2027 7th for 2026 4th
• Reilly Smith for Brendan Brisson and 2025 3rd
• Luke Schenn for 2026 2nd and 2027 4th

Hopefully this summer he stocks up.

 

[ClarkSittler]

Colorado had the best playoff record in the last decade with one of the softest defenses in the league, thinking you need big tough D to win is wrong.

Colorado has only made it to one cup final in the last decade and the year they won their D wasn't small or soft at all.

It was in fact smaller and softer this year which is probably why they're out golfing right now.

Where do you come up with this nonsense anyway?


Colorado's Cup winning Defense:

Bowen Byram​

Defense -- shoots L
Height 6.01 -- Weight 205

Jack Johnson​

Defense -- shoots L
Height 6.02 -- Weight 225

Erik Johnson​

Defense -- shoots R
Height 6.04 -- Weight 225

Cale Makar​

Defense -- shoots R
Height 6.00 -- Weight 187

Josh Manson​

Defense -- shoots R
Height 6.03 -- Weight 218

Devon Toews​

Defense -- shoots L
Height 6.01 -- Weight 191

Feel free to present any evidence that a team full of smaller defensemen lead to cup wins. I’d be interested to know how many defensemen under 6 feet tall and 190 pounds were on each Stanley Cup-winning team over the past decade. Actually not really, I already know. There isn't very many and no more than 2 per team.

 

[1specter]

Assuming y'all are debating with bias (I blocked that boy), he's done everything in his power to diminish every move Treliving has made and has constantly tried to shit on Tanev despite Tanev making him look like a clown with how well he's played.

 

[conFABulator]

At the deadline Tre could have brought in a much deeper set of 13th/14th forwards & #7th/#8th D instead of Robertson/Kampf/Myers/Mermis.

• Brandon Tanev for a 2027 2nd
• Luke Kunin for 2025 4th
• Mark Jankowski for 2026 5th
• Nico Sturm and 2027 7th for 2026 4th
• Reilly Smith for Brendan Brisson and 2025 3rd
• Luke Schenn for 2026 2nd and 2027 4th

Hopefully this summer he stocks up.

You would need to include salary going out for any of these acquisitions too. We are up against the cap, which is why Pacioretty didn't play for three months. I wanted Tanev and Schenn but was happier with Laughton and Carlo.

 

[notbias]

Colorado has only made it to one cup final in the last decade and the year they won their D wasn't small or soft at all.

It was in fact smaller and softer this year which is probably why they're out golfing right now.

Where do you come up with this nonsense anyway?


Colorado's Cup winning Defense:

Bowen Byram​

Defense -- shoots L
Height 6.01 -- Weight 205

Jack Johnson​

Defense -- shoots L
Height 6.02 -- Weight 225

Erik Johnson​

Defense -- shoots R
Height 6.04 -- Weight 225

Cale Makar​

Defense -- shoots R
Height 6.00 -- Weight 187

Josh Manson​

Defense -- shoots R
Height 6.03 -- Weight 218

Devon Toews​

Defense -- shoots L
Height 6.01 -- Weight 191

Feel free to present any evidence that a team full of smaller defensemen lead to cup wins. I’d be interested to know how many defensemen under 6 feet tall and 190 pounds were on each Stanley Cup-winning team over the past decade. Actually not really, I already know. There isn't very many and no more than 2 per team.

No one said smaller defensemen lead to winning a cup, just that bigger defensemen don't necessarily lead to that, no need to change the discussion.

6 foot/190 is a weird cut off for size.

Should include Girard who was playing ahead of Johnson and played more than a series.

Byram/Toew/Makar are all under average size, Girard is WAY under, and those are your top 4 in TOI/GP.

Not sure that a 3rd pairing being above average makes up for the top 4 being below average.

Feel free to dispute this if you want, but that is all factual.

 

[DarkKnight]

Tanev absolutely the best we’ve had ainec. And I loved Muzzin.

 

[DarkKnight]

Assuming y'all are debating with bias (I blocked that boy), he's done everything in his power to diminish every move Treliving has made and has constantly tried to shit on Tanev despite Tanev making him look like a clown with how well he's played.

Ditto. Agenda posters are the most intellectually boring, you already know the stance before the issue. It isn’t very sophisticated, no matter what is dressed around it. First it was comical, then tedious, now refreshing to not see lol.

 

[conFABulator]

They picked up a bunch of defensemen with Muzzin traits. But you're not going to find 6 clones of a player as good and rare as Muzzin, and you wouldn't really want to anyway. Muzzin is one of the kinds of defensemen you want. Because what actually makes a good blueline is a good range and balance of skills and traits that can compliment each other and fill different roles. That's exactly what we had, and it led to the best defensive results this team has gotten in decades.

I was pretty happy with Dubas when he was here, but thought it was time for him to move on for sure.

Since then, I have felt the change in team construction and make-up under Treliving and while we can say Dubas would have done the same, we would have nothing to base this on.

Berube is a much different coach than Keefe. He coaches a different structure and style, certainly more of a north-south team and less of a possession oriented approach. He also seems to demand or earn an accountability from players with how he manages the lineup and roster. Not with a heavy hand but he seems to have trust in the players and they seem to respect him.

Our D now including Tanev, McCabe (I know he didn't acquire him, but he added around him and re-signed him), Carlo, OEL, and Myers (possibly Hakanpaa as depth) is not something we gave seen before here.

Obviously Stolarz is much better than Samsonov, Mrazek, etc.

He also seems to be building a team with less reliance on rentals and less turnover and churn.

Most importantly, Marner and Tavares are not signed yet. This is a very important factor in our team playoff make-up, IMO.

So I was not and am not anti-Dubas, but I do believe we are better off having Treliving the past 18 months.

 

[ClarkSittler]

No one said smaller defensemen lead to winning a cup, just that bigger defensemen don't necessarily lead to that, no need to change the discussion.

You claimed Colorado was great in the playoffs due to smaller defenseman which was a lie. Also this "thinking you need big tough D to win is wrong."

You know we can read your posts righ

6 foot/190 is a weird cut off for size.

Why is that? How big is Makar? Do you consider him small and soft?

Should include Girard who was playing ahead of Johnson and played more than a series.

Johnson played 13 games, Girard played 7.

Byram/Toew/Makar are all under average size, Girard is WAY under, and those are your top 4 in TOI/GP.

Byram is 6'1 205 lbs, again Girard played 7 games.

Not sure that a 3rd pairing being above average makes up for the top 4 being below average.

Feel free to dispute this if you want, but that is all factual.

No it isn't

Still waiting for you to provide all the small, soft defensemen on the last decade's cup winning teams.

I'm mean who are we kidding, whenever you're asked to provide evidence to backup your nonsensical claims you never do.

 

[notbias]

You claimed Colorado was great in the playoffs due to smaller defenseman which was a lie. Also this "thinking you need big tough D to win is wrong."

You know we can read your posts righ

"Colorado had the best playoff record in the last decade with one of the softest defenses in the league, thinking you need big tough D to win is wrong."

Can't read.

Nowhere did I say they were great because of having smaller D, but Colorado put more value in their smallest D over their bigger D that year.

Why is that? How big is Makar? Do you consider him small and soft?

Not soft, average size at best, but slightly under.

Johnson played 13 games, Girard played 7.

Sure use him, he was their 7th choice, Girard was their 4th.

Byram is 6'1 205 lbs, again Girard played 7 games.

Slightly below average, but sure.

No it isn't

Still waiting for you to provide all the small, soft defensemen on the last decade's cup winning teams.

I'm mean who are we kidding, whenever you're asked to provide evidence to backup your nonsensical claims you never do.

Ignoring that this D core was not close to being big or mean is your issue, not mine.

That team won based on possession and skill, sorry if you missed the playoffs.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Assuming y'all are debating with bias (I blocked that boy), he's done everything in his power to diminish every move Treliving has made and has constantly tried to shit on Tanev despite Tanev making him look like a clown with how well he's played.

It's fruitless debating with a guy who doesn't realize we're using a different system than the past.

Ditto. Agenda posters are the most intellectually boring, you already know the stance before the issue. It isn’t very sophisticated, no matter what is dressed around it. First it was comical, then tedious, now refreshing to not see lol.

Or who has a predetermined agenda to the point he rarely praises Treliving for the good moves he's made including the upgrade in coaching and personnel.