Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[Skullz]

Also, if we don’t get past at least the second round this year, I want everybody fired. I’m sick of this. Shanahan has had long enough. That we have not won anything with this collection of players is a joke.

Secondly, I’m beginning to wonder if we have blamed Marner too much. While he has to be better, I think 34 deserves more blame than he has been getting for the years. Like Marner, he doesn’t seem to be able to rise to the occasion when the game calls for it. And he’s the highest paid player in the league.

 

[Racer88]

Karlsson will be done same time as Crosby and Malkin.

Just mental gymnastics, or the other mental ...

Not that he will, but you could still retrieve assets for Karlsson with retention.

I'm not sure anyone thought it was a great move, but it was at least an attempt to make a difference.

So was getting Tavares and here we are 7 years later failing

Also, if we don’t get past at least the second round this year, I want everybody fired. I’m sick of this. Shanahan has had long enough. That we have not won anything with this collection of players is a joke.

Secondly, I’m beginning to wonder if we have blamed Marner too much. While he has to be better, I think 34 deserves more blame than he has been getting for the years. Like Marner, he doesn’t seem to be able to rise to the occasion when the game calls for it. And he’s the highest paid player in the league.

The entire core of 4 + 1 are to blame

 

[ULF_55]

So was getting Tavares and here we are 7 years later failing

The entire core of 4 + 1 are to blame

Tavares isn't why they are failing.

Perhaps people thought Tavares was going to come in and take over the team?

He's just done his job, overpaid as most UFA's are. Subsequent moves and signings hurt more than the Tavares signing.

Leafs don't have that high end Alpha. Haven't signed one nor drafted one.

Milquetoast team.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Tavares isn't why they are failing.

Perhaps people thought Tavares was going to come in and take over the team?

He's just done his job, overpaid as most UFA's are. Subsequent moves and signings hurt more than the Tavares signing.

Leafs don't have that high end Alpha. Haven't signed one nor drafted one.

Milquetoast team

Do you need alpha or can you win with a depth team

 

[GoonieFace]

He hasn’t done anything gutsy to change things up. Everything has been the safe route, which doesn’t seem to be helping. There is no excuse this year, as the East is as weak as it’s ever been.

 

[hotpaws]

Not to change the topic, but I am continually amazed to see people blame Dubas for Pittsburgh's decline. It was going to happen no matter Dubas or anyone else did.

everyone thought the Caps were also going to steeply decline until they didn't

but I'm guessing it's still Shanny blocking all his genius move like i was told he was doing while Dumbass was in Tor !

 

[Al14]

How do I get me one of those failing upwards nepotism jobs

Change your name from Martin Skoula!!! Something like Clem Livingstone should do.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Not to change the topic, but I am continually amazed to see people blame Dubas for Pittsburgh's decline. It was going to happen no matter Dubas or anyone else did.

The difference between correlation and causation is lost on most of this board. It's pretty telling when the best argument against him is bringing up an irrelevant team, and blaming him for the oldest core in the league being old.

It's also a bit of an odd argument to make, since relative to 2022-2023, our point percentage since Treliving took over has dropped by 0.057, even though we should be peaking right now. Pittsburgh, with their ancient, declining core and imploding #1 goalie, have only dropped off by 0.041.

 

[ULF_55]

Do you need alpha or can you win with a depth team

I'm sure a good team with an exceptional/hot keeper must have won at sometime in the past, or the stars align and a superior team get's goalied in previous series?

Having alpha's doesn't guarantee anything, look at Draisaitl and McDavid.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Collecting data that has no value is a waste of resources.

The data does have value. It's valuable information about the performance of a team's skaters, and helps isolate what's happening and why.

 

[ULF_55]

The data does have value. It's valuable information about the performance of a team's skaters, and helps isolate what's happening and why.

So exactly like I said used to make corrections on their failures.
I doubt they'd want to change what is succeeding.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So exactly like I said used to make corrections on their failures.
I doubt they'd want to change what is succeeding.

You said the stat indicates failure, which is wrong. It just shows skater performance. Everybody can benefit from better understanding what happened and why.

 

[ULF_55]

You said the stat indicates failure, which is wrong. It just shows skater performance. Everybody can benefit from better understanding what happened and why.

If they are not meeting expectations it will highlight their failures.

I should have been more clear, as some have this propensity to ignore the obvious in their pursuit of their agenda.

I give too much credit to some people.

 

[Gallagbi]

You are not selling them as useful.

Collecting data that has no value is a waste of resources.

"Oh that's nice." Now throw it away and let's look at something we can address.

What the f*** are you going on about?

If they are not meeting expectations it will highlight their failures.

I should have been more clear, as some have this propensity to ignore the obvious in their pursuit of their agenda.

I give too much credit to some people.

Pot, meet kettle

 

[Dekes For Days]

If they are not meeting expectations it will highlight their failures.

If you're not meeting expectations, it can assist in isolating why, but the stat itself is just valuable information, regardless of whether you are falling below, meeting, or exceeding expectations. Everybody benefits from better understanding what happened.

some have this propensity to ignore the obvious in their pursuit of their agenda.

Some certainly do. I'm just acknowledging the obvious purpose and value of these metrics. What are you pursuing in this discussion? What are you pursuing with a comment like that?

 

[Racer88]

Tavares isn't why they are failing.

Perhaps people thought Tavares was going to come in and take over the team?

He's just done his job, overpaid as most UFA's are. Subsequent moves and signings hurt more than the Tavares signing.

Leafs don't have that high end Alpha. Haven't signed one nor drafted one.

Milquetoast team.

No doubt he is a quality guy and decent player but I still think they should have spent that 11 million in different areas. They did not need him and getting him has not resulted in any playoff success

 

[ULF_55]

No doubt he is a quality guy and decent player but I still think they should have spent that 11 million in different areas. They did not need him and getting him has not resulted in any playoff success

True enough.

He hasn't carried them to any success.

He kind of blends in with his mates.

 

[Mess]

IMHO, at this point, I believe Treliving is just a Shanahan puppet. He appears to me to be sitting on his hands making little to no attempts to seriously upgrade our Leafs to REAL Stanley Cup contenders.

Our Leafs need a TRUE number D, and, a very competitive number 2 C. Failing to acquire BOTH of these will mean more of the same as we've been gifted for the last 8 seasons.

We shall see if this post of mine ages well or not!!!

JMHO.

If Treliving walks away from Marner and goes a new direction if Leafs and/or Mitch struggle again in round #1.

This is where Treliving has a real opportunity to put his stamp on the team and change up the core.

I agree a solid #2 C and top pairing Dman are the current missing ingredients that could propel the Leafs forward.

If JT returns it has to be a discount rate and he also needs to move to the wing as he is not fast enough to play a top 5 centre position any longer.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Not to change the topic, but I am continually amazed to see people blame Dubas for Pittsburgh's decline. It was going to happen no matter Dubas or anyone else did.

Why should he be blameless? He took the job knowing full well the parameters and then decided the best person to be GM was (surprise surprise) himself. Pretty obvious that Dubas had the Pens job offer in his back pocket during his amateur hour coup attempt against Shanahan. Dude is a weasel.

 

[thewave]

So exactly like I said used to make corrections on their failures.
I doubt they'd want to change what is succeeding.

Succeeding to the fans may not be the same as succeeding for MLSE. For all we know they are OK with what Shanahan has done. They kept the gang together the kids love Marnie Willie and Papi. JT has been a good pro and earned the right to an extension.

Sounds like everything is dreamy at MLSE. Record profits every year!

 

[Racer88]

If Treliving walks away from Marner and goes a new direction if Leafs and/or Mitch struggle again in round #1.

This is where Treliving has a real opportunity to put his stamp on the team and change up the core.

I agree a solid #2 C and top pairing Dman are the current missing ingredients that could propel the Leafs forward.

If JT returns it has to be a discount rate and he also needs to move to the wing as he is not fast enough to play a top 5 centre position any longer.

He also needs to upgrade Domi and Kampf………they have to go.
They are awful for the price point

 

[LeafEgo]

Why should he be blameless? He took the job knowing full well the parameters and then decided the best person to be GM was (surprise surprise) himself. Pretty obvious that Dubas had the Pens job offer in his back pocket during his amateur hour coup attempt against Shanahan. Dude is a weasel.

It's particularly crazy because the Caps are in first place.

A hockey GM certainly could have at least pushed the Pens into the playoffs for a last ill advised hurrah, not sunk to the bottom while bleeding assets to do the opposite.

 

[hamzarocks]

Not to change the topic, but I am continually amazed to see people blame Dubas for Pittsburgh's decline. It was going to happen no matter Dubas or anyone else did.

Dubas failure on the Pens was he went for it his first summer there

1)Trades 1st (top 10 protected became Sam Dickinson via trade by Sharks whose looking super good at the moment) + Granlund + 2nd + Petry + De Smith + Rutta

Got back: EK65 at 9.8M + 3rd

That was a move with intentioj to Win. Dubas could not value the impact of EK65 correctly, didnt get enough retention, didnt assess the fit with Letang still there and competing ice time for similar offensive role need

2) Gives Adam Graves a nonsensical 6 years 4.5M deal. Dubas was praised here by quite a few for not giving any Zaitsev type deals. This deal sucked the second it was signed. Graves was a bottom pairing D who didnt make sense at 6 year term. If you gave him 4.5M AAV it needed to be at 3 years term max. He locked in a problematic player to try and be an anchor type player like Muzzin or McCabe and it failed epicly for them

3) Extends Tristan jarry to 5.5X 5 year deal. Jarry was an epic choker in the playoffs for the Pens and his stats were declining from 2022 second half onwards. Terribly risky deal and it burned them right away.

His intention was to win and he tried to make big and aggresive moves to build a retooled offense+defense that coudl compete.

The loss of Dickinson is huge for a rebuilding Pens team as he would be there best Prospect on the team.

Graves, Jarry and EK65 just lock the further into state of sucking and being bottom 5-10 level bad but not bottom 3 level bad.

It also basically took away any chances of a Malkin/Letang/Crosby deal to speed bump the rebuild.

Dubas is not 100% at fault for above, as FSG sucks as ownership and Sullivan sucks to but Dubas wa way to cocky and short sighted and ruined the Pens pretty bad last year. His ego seems to not be in check as he continues to run himself as the GM while being President when he came to the Pens with intention of being President only initially

 

[Racer88]

It's particularly crazy because the Caps are in first place.

A hockey GM certainly could have at least pushed the Pens into the playoffs for a last ill advised hurrah, not sunk to the bottom while bleeding assets to do the opposite.

Dubas was and is a train wreck. He killed what should have been an awesome rebuild here.
Him and Shanny shoukd have been shown the door a few years ago

 

[Racer88]

The difference between correlation and causation is lost on most of this board. It's pretty telling when the best argument against him is bringing up an irrelevant team, and blaming him for the oldest core in the league being old.

It's also a bit of an odd argument to make, since relative to 2022-2023, our point percentage since Treliving took over has dropped by 0.057, even though we should be peaking right now. Pittsburgh, with their ancient, declining core and imploding #1 goalie, have only dropped off by 0.041.

How can you continue to defend Dubas when he had 1 single round win in his 5 years, especially when he had players like Matthews,Marner and Willy and an 11 million dollar JT?