Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

[socko]

Again, you don’t operate in a vacuum though, the culture doesn’t automatically change. So he should have let Nylander walk, because his agent was a stone wall from the onset by every report I’ve seen? It drives me nuts too, but I figured we’d get bent over by both of them, no matter who the GM is now, the precedents are just that, we can’t wish them away, unless we turf them all and start from scratch.

Willy and Mitch were both hard contract negotiators from the start. Dubas was just too stupid to use the leverage he had. Tre has far less leverage. But yes I think let them walk is completely on the table. Would I pick up a free agent Nylander for $11.5 if he was coming from another team like Tavares did? Yes, I suppose I would. That's why we gave it to him. Has nothing to do with Dubas though, or I hope not. We can't be that stupid.

 

[Trapper]

Leafs had 2 X $11 + mil centres and they only contributed 1 goal each in the series. (Matthews injury notwithstanding)

Eastern Conference final standings sorted by least goals against. Check out the teams in the final 4 in the East.. The defense rest your honour.

View attachment 869937

How many “stars” does Boston and Florida have on their team?

 

[FerrisRox]

Maybe not confirmed, but pretty much was out there as far as speculation. It was ownership not wanting to apparently, guessing things didn’t end well there.

That doesn't make much sense, his contract expired, they mutually agreed to move on and he went elsewhere. I highly doubt the Flames have any issue trading with the Maple Leafs.

You're way too concerned with which specific position they play.

Yes, and Dubas - and you apparently - should be very concerned with that, because not paying attention to that is how you create imbalance in the team.

 

[socko]

Boston: I'd go with Pastrnak and Swayman
Florida: Kind of a team of B level stars in Reinhart, Tkachuk, Barkov, and Verhaeghe.

 

[Menzinger]

How many “stars” does Boston and Florida have on their team?

Florida has three forwards who could easily be classified as such, plus Ekblad and a 10 mil goalie.

 

[myleafs]

And when JTs contract expires they’d have another 11 million. Got to make good trades or it’s a complete rebuild and they may as well include Willy.

wait,what? removing marner and tavares and using their 22+m elsewhere or on different types of players means its a complete rebuild so may as well just get rid of Willy? I dont get how you came to that conclusion?

 

[myleafs]

This would be among my top trade targets as NYI's used Varlamov as their starter in the playoffs.

View attachment 869842

View attachment 869843

Here is a wild thought .... Treliving convinces Tavares to waive his NMC so he can be dealt back to NYI his original team and he eventually gets retire an Islander and Leafs get Sorokin as part of that deal.

Im not so certain the isles fans would welcome pajama boy back, in fact im pretty sure they wouldnt.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

When Dubas paid Marner the $11 million, had any other team offer sheeted that to Marner, the Leafs would have been compensated with 4 first round picks. I can safely tell you now, I would have taken the picks.

Now, the best I see for us is Tre letting Marner walk for nothing. Certainly beats paying him. If Tre somehow manages to trade Marner, knowing you have to deal with him directly because of the NMC, knowing he's going to probably demand in the $12 - $13 million range or more because its Marner, and he actually gets a decent return in trade, he should win executive of the year. That would be more impressive than unloading Phaneuf.

Dubas got fleeced by the Marner camp because he was paranoid about offer sheets. The story I was told was that CBJ would only do an offer sheet that was BELOW the 4 1st rd picks which would have been below 10.5M and they wanted him for the max 7 years. Marner wanted 4- or 5yrs max....so that would have been a gamble if they did extend the offer sheet to MM...but he wouldn't sign it at 7yrs. It was all a show to get Dubas to give them $11M over 6yrs as a "Deal" for the Leafs.

We had nobody with experience in our front office after Lou was sent packing and Dubas fell for the offer sheet fiasco. I also heard his camp was actively soliciting other teams to make an offer and only CBJ had any discussions...but I guess if Dubas had no friends in the business he fell for it...hook, line and sinker.

 

[socko]

Dubas got fleeced by the Marner camp because he was paranoid about offer sheets. The story I was told was that CBJ would only do an offer sheet that was BELOW the 4 1st rd picks which would have been below 10.5M and they wanted him for the max 7 years. Marner wanted 4- or 5yrs max....so that would have been a gamble if they did extend the offer sheet to MM...but he wouldn't sign it at 7yrs. It was all a show to get Dubas to give them $11M over 6yrs as a "Deal" for the Leafs.

We had nobody with experience in our front office after Lou was sent packing and Dubas fell for the offer sheet fiasco. I also heard his camp was actively soliciting other teams to make an offer and only CBJ had any discussions...but I guess if Dubas had no friends in the business he fell for it...hook, line and sinker.

So that's 2 firsts, a 2nd, a 3rd and a whole lot of cap space.
SOLD.

 

[Ports]

Dubas was bad but his overpayments on the four only consumed 49% of the cap and barring a trade Treliving overpayments will consume 53% of the cap.

The dye was cast. What’s Treliving supposed to do ? Tell Matthews to take a pay cut ? The only way out is to break up ShanaDubas’ failing core.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Dubas got fleeced by the Marner camp because he was paranoid about offer sheets. The story I was told was that CBJ would only do an offer sheet that was BELOW the 4 1st rd picks which would have been below 10.5M and they wanted him for the max 7 years. Marner wanted 4- or 5yrs max....so that would have been a gamble if they did extend the offer sheet to MM...but he wouldn't sign it at 7yrs. It was all a show to get Dubas to give them $11M over 6yrs as a "Deal" for the Leafs.

We had nobody with experience in our front office after Lou was sent packing and Dubas fell for the offer sheet fiasco. I also heard his camp was actively soliciting other teams to make an offer and only CBJ had any discussions...but I guess if Dubas had no friends in the business he fell for it...hook, line and sinker.

In hockey especially, a GM must NEVER put a player above the team. I mean that, NEVER.

I forget if it was Marner or Nylander but I recall saying I would almost always take 4-5 First Rounders for a player and welcomed another team to put in an offer sheet. The trade value alone to recoup such players would be quite impressive. First Round draft picks are exceptional currency to get players on the cheap, have teams absorb cap space etc.

Now, you can bend for some players, perhaps even bend more than you should, but, you must never break to the point that inking a player puts the team in a worse position by severely restricting their options.

As for the No Move contracts, they should only be allowed with UFAs. No RFA should have a no-trade clause. Also, the league should look at forcing players to choose at min. a "6-7 team trade list". That should be the modified definition of No-Trade. Or, at least demand that a NTC can only be protected at the front end of a contract, not the back end.

Sports is very big business. Players are well compensated and rightfully so. However, it is a team sport so the league must demand that a franchise owner can always put his team first when it comes to restrictions.

Brad should not be shy about talking to Bert and Domi about becoming a core part of the team going forward. No need to reinvent the entire wheel if you have players who can fit in, especially with a new, most likely experienced NHL coach coming in.

 

[Ports]

Dubas got fleeced by the Marner camp because he was paranoid about offer sheets. The story I was told was that CBJ would only do an offer sheet that was BELOW the 4 1st rd picks which would have been below 10.5M and they wanted him for the max 7 years. Marner wanted 4- or 5yrs max....so that would have been a gamble if they did extend the offer sheet to MM...but he wouldn't sign it at 7yrs. It was all a show to get Dubas to give them $11M over 6yrs as a "Deal" for the Leafs.

We had nobody with experience in our front office after Lou was sent packing and Dubas fell for the offer sheet fiasco. I also heard his camp was actively soliciting other teams to make an offer and only CBJ had any discussions...but I guess if Dubas had no friends in the business he fell for it...hook, line and sinker.

Why would he panic and sign Marner with just the threat of an offer sheet ? There’s no commitment from either Columbus or Marner accepting any contract terms without a signed offer sheet. And Dubas would still have a week to match or accept the picks. If that’s the case, he definitely wasn’t up to the job.

 

[Ports]

I disagree with this. We don't have to work off the Dubas numbers. Take Nylander for example. It simply came down to do you keep him at $11.5 or let him walk. We may not like those numbers because better players than Nylander are taking less than that (Tkachuk for example). But that doesn't matter, Nylander holds the cards, and you pay him his ask or let him walk or try to trade him. I personally can't let him walk when this team already can't score goals and he's the 2nd best scorer on the team. If we paid Tavares $11 as a UFA, what makes us think we'll do better this time swimming in the UFA waters? Yeah, I begrudgingly give Willy his money. But has nothing to do with Dubas. Dubas is gone and he did a lot of damage but the choices made today are on Tre alone (and possibly that Shanny guy who should be fired already).

To simplify things. The past was on Dubas. The future is on Tre.

it's simple. physicality does not dictate a winner... that was what was implied in the Van series... the biggest factor there is Skinner is worse than Sammy.

Bad goaltending can cost you a series but lack of physicality and grit can too.

 

[Ports]

You're way too concerned with which specific position they play. Teams tie money up in the high-end players that are available to them, just like we did. Then they put their focus and remaining cap space into the other areas, just like we did.

Hey, at least it would show that he finally understands that transition ability in a defenseman is something that exists.

Because positions are all the same or you don’t need good goaltending or defense to win a cup ? Half the cap invested in four forwards was unprecedented and it was evident three years ago it would never work but management was too stubborn to admit or correct their mistakes.

 

[notbias]

Bad goaltending can cost you a series but lack of physicality and grit can too.

Which series has this happened?

 

[Ports]

Again, you don’t operate in a vacuum though, the culture doesn’t automatically change. So he should have let Nylander walk, because his agent was a stone wall from the onset by every report I’ve seen? It drives me nuts too, but I figured we’d get bent over by both of them, no matter who the GM is now, the precedents are just that, we can’t wish them away, unless we turf them all and start from scratch.

You don’t let 40 goal scorers like Nylander just walk. He could’ve waited longer to sign him but you can’t replace him if you let him walk.

 

[Ports]

Which series has this happened?

Several recent Leaf playoff losses to Montreal, Boston several times. I’ve been watching hockey for 60 years and it’s happened to the Leafs too many times to mention by teams like Boston, Philadelphia, New Jersey and if happens to the Leafs it happens to every other team at some point in time. It’s not even debatable that teams get outmuscled and intimidated in the playoffs.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Why would he panic and sign Marner with just the threat of an offer sheet ? There’s no commitment from either Columbus or Marner accepting any contract terms without a signed offer sheet. And Dubas would still have a week to match or accept the picks. If that’s the case, he definitely wasn’t up to the job.

I have no clue why he panicked...I would have called Marner's bluff and then decide what to do. I doubt CBJ would bother with a 4-5yr deal at $10.4M...it would have just done Marner a favor. I do believe my source is accurate on this because he knows a person very close to the Marner camp.

 

[Ports]

How many “stars” does Boston and Florida have on their team?

Boston has Pasternak, Marchand, Swayman and McAvoy. Florida has Tkachuk, Reinhart, Barkov, Montour, Ekblad.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Jury is out. Failed to fire Sutter in time. Made the worst trade in Flames history, worse than Gilmore deal.
He has 12 months..value for Marner, or JT is objective. Goaltending and this is a cup team.

 

[Ports]

I have no clue why he panicked...I would have called Marner's bluff and then decide what to do. I doubt CBJ would bother with a 4-5yr deal at $10.4M...it would have just done Marner a favor. I do believe my source is accurate on this because he knows a person very close to the Marner camp.

I had heard about a Columbus Offer Sheet but had thought it was an actual offer that Marner’s camp said he was prepared to accept. Even then, Dubas can call his bluff to see if Marner would actually commit to play in Coluumbus which I don’t think would happen. If it was another great organization I can see the threat. But Columbus ?

 

[Ports]

Jury is out. Failed to fire Sutter in time. Made the worst trade in Flames history, worse than Gilmore deal.
He has 12 months..value for Marner, or JT is objective. Goaltending and this is a cup team.

Goaltending? How about scoring more than two goals a game ? Cup winners don’t average 1.7 goals scored per game over 14 games.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I had heard about a Columbus Offer Sheet but had thought it was an actual offer that Marner’s camp said he was prepared to accept. Even then, Dubas can call his bluff to see if Marner would actually commit to play in Coluumbus which I don’t think would happen. If it was another great organization I can see the threat. But Columbus ?

The reality for Marner signing his next deal is simple: You want top dollar...it's going to be a team like CBJ. You want to win? It's not going to be top dollar. Those are your choices much like any other player. Most guys sign team friendlier deals because they are with a winner and figure they do with a bit less. Will Marner be like that with whatever team he is traded to?

 

[Ports]

Boston: I'd go with Pastrnak and Swayman
Florida: Kind of a team of B level stars in Reinhart, Tkachuk, Barkov, and Verhaeghe.

B level stars ? They’re A level in the playoffs when it really counts.

 

[Ports]

The reality for Marner signing his next deal is simple: You want top dollar...it's going to be a team like CBJ. You want to win? It's not going to be top dollar. Those are your choices much like any other player. Most guys sign team friendlier deals because they are with a winner and figure they do with a bit less. Will Marner be like that with whatever team he is traded to?

Except if they play for the Leafs. Then they want the money more than winning. Marner won’t agree to a trade unless it’s to a team of his choice that is prepared to pay him what he wants in a sign and trade. Otherwise he’ll take his chances and bet on himself getting it as a UFA.