Brad Treliving is doing a great job.

socko

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Nov 26, 2013
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You have to acknowledge that Treliving has to work off those numbers Dubas established and then they are going to expect a raise.
I disagree with this. We don't have to work off the Dubas numbers. Take Nylander for example. It simply came down to do you keep him at $11.5 or let him walk. We may not like those numbers because better players than Nylander are taking less than that (Tkachuk for example). But that doesn't matter, Nylander holds the cards, and you pay him his ask or let him walk or try to trade him. I personally can't let him walk when this team already can't score goals and he's the 2nd best scorer on the team. If we paid Tavares $11 as a UFA, what makes us think we'll do better this time swimming in the UFA waters? Yeah, I begrudgingly give Willy his money. But has nothing to do with Dubas. Dubas is gone and he did a lot of damage but the choices made today are on Tre alone (and possibly that Shanny guy who should be fired already).
 

Dekes For Days

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Sep 24, 2018
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I’ve always tried to explain to you that there’s a difference between regular season hockey and playoff hockey. You seem to be the only one confused. Sample sizes have always been important, but only when measuring the same statistic. Regular season games are not the same as playoff games. While their sample size it greater, it doesn’t tell you anything accurate.
I'm well aware that you claim that regular season and playoff hockey are way more different than they are in order to dismiss relevant information. The issue here is the inconsistency. When it was a team that lost in the playoffs after an incredibly successful season, you claimed the rest of the season was irrelevant, and we should only look at playoff outcomes - no context necessary. When it was a team that was incredibly successful in the playoffs after struggling through the season, you claimed that the playoff outcomes were irrelevant, and we should only look at the regular season. When faced with this contradiction, you said that "results in both tell you the quality". So I asked how you weight each one, and you refuse to answer. Instead, you seem to have reverted back to suggesting that everything that happens in the regular season is completely irrelevant and worthless and tells you absolutely nothing about a team. I asked you what sample size we need for the playoffs, since you stripped contender status for 1 series while refusing to assign it for 4, and you refuse to answer that too. You say sample size is important, and yet you seem perfectly fine ignoring it.
Dubas doesn’t understand the importance of roles on a team.
He absolutely did. Whether you agree with the moves themselves or not, he addressed areas of need, filled roles, and pivoted quickly when necessary. If anybody is showing red flags in this regard, it's Treliving. He didn't really address anything that needed addressing, and seemed to forget entire roles and attributes existed. Too focused on 'snot', which accomplished nothing.
You have never blamed anything except bad luck.
No, you just weren't listening. You called any context (and many of the factors you are now pointing to) irrelevant until the GM switched to Treliving.
Cool.... so we've established the best choice at the time was still a bad option.
No, we've established that Treliving chose to re-sign Samsonov, and then chose to go into the playoffs with no goalie changes. With hindsight, we know that there were other goalies that did better this year. So the question is, is it okay to use hindsight against a GM when the choice made at the time was reasonable? Should we consider the situation and realistic options or just demand results?
Perhaps we should discuss why Tre walked into such a bad situation?
Treliving walked into a goalie coming off a good season - that Treliving had the choice and cap space to re-sign - and a backup signed to a great contract. If you think that's a bad situation, then the answer to your question is that we didn't draft one of a few goalies a decade ago.
We had some cap space, but the roster was in shambles after we went all-in with a pile of UFA rentals.
We had some assets, but our pool of picks and prospects has been diminished by years of trading them for UFA rentals.
The roster wasn't in shambles, and we didn't go all in with UFA rentals last year. Our net asset loss for pending UFAs was Sandin/2nd/3rd/4th. Treliving chose to not re-sign them, but we had a number of internal graduates and plenty of cap space to replace players and address what needed addressing. While we had traded some picks over the years like any team in our position, we still had plenty of assets, and we had drafted well and held onto the prospects. Treliving was not restricted by cap space or assets in his goalie decision.
 

notbias

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Feb 16, 2017
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Friedman and Marek discussing right now how the Canucks are “man handling” the Oilers, just physically dominating them.

Some other notable teams who manhandled their opponents are the Leafs, Tampa, LA, Vegas, and the Jets.

Truly a masterclass by all those teams, I expect that they have some long runs.

A lot of Vancouver's winning also has to do with Skinner being the worst goalie in the playoffs by a mile.
 
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GoonieFace

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Jun 24, 2013
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Yeah but Zadorov was acquired much earlier, so you'd end up having way more games with them. By cleverly waiting, the Leafs got to hold onto this picks a few months longer and then get not one, but two inferior players for twice the price.
It was almost confirmed that Calgary would not trade with Treliving, so Zadorov wasn’t happening
 

MilkofthePoppy

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Oct 27, 2022
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I'd rather take my chances with Sammy and Woll again rather than overpay for journeyman. Our problems are not goaltending related, they are goalscoring related. If Vancouver can overcome 3/4 bad goals given by a third stringer why can't we with superior goaltending? The Panthers have completely exposed Swayman.
 
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notbias

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so you're saying Vegas wasn't physical last year? Just trying to follow your logic.
it's simple. physicality does not dictate a winner... that was what was implied in the Van series... the biggest factor there is Skinner is worse than Sammy.
 

socko

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I'm not watching that series, on too late for me. Of course goaltending is important. But if you're saying that physicality doesn't matter, than I have to strongly disagree there. That's what makes Marner play on the perimeter. He doesn't like it.
 
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Dekes For Days

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The point is not the actual % of cap, it was the stupidity of four highly paid forwards and consequently poorer D.
Considering that people keep talking about the percentage of the cap, this does seem to be about the percentage of the cap. The issue is, they simultaneously ignore why the percentage of the cap is what it is. The plan was never to have four high paid forwards and poor defense. The plan was four high-end forwards (only 3 of which were highly paid, and dropping as a percentage of the cap each year) on a good defensive team, and that's exactly what was built. The poor defense came under Lou and Treliving.
All Tre has done is re-sign the two best players (to small overpayments, unfortunately based on the precedence set), and try to fix the other issues.
He kept everybody, and then re-signed everybody that he was able to, to worse contracts than the ones Dubas gave. He then focused on the wrong things, failed to fix anything he actually needed to address, and made us worse in what management considered a critical year that could trigger long-term consequences for the team's future cup potential.
We don't know how much of the fiasco is on Shanahan and how much is on Dubas, but it's blatantly obvious that none Is on Tre.
That's illogical. Either Shanahan is dictating it or not.
 

Dekes For Days

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Really? That's the only difference?
Please list all the other teams that tied up all that money in four FORWARDS.
You're way too concerned with which specific position they play. Teams tie money up in the high-end players that are available to them, just like we did. Then they put their focus and remaining cap space into the other areas, just like we did.
Yet another great point! Hopefully he won't trade for Erik Karlsson.
Hey, at least it would show that he finally understands that transition ability in a defenseman is something that exists.
 

Gabriel426

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Jun 30, 2015
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Maybe not confirmed, but pretty much was out there as far as speculation. It was ownership not wanting to apparently, guessing things didn’t end well there.
100% Flames MGT does not want to deal with Tre. Just look at what happened at the draft. How petty can one possibly get by stating Tre can't be at the table for the 1st round of the draft.
Like in reality whats diff would that make, it is not like we don't use cell phone or email or whatever.
 
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DarkKnight

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Jan 17, 2017
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Why trade a 3rd & a 5th for Zadorov when you can trade a 3rd & a 6th for Boosh and a 3rd & a 5th for Edmundson? :naughty:
Boosh was fantastic and Edmundson did an admirable job overall. Hopefully we bring both back.

It is "couldn't care less".
Exactly I couldn't even care less to say it properly. This is the mental energy you demand junior. Cheers.
 
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DarkKnight

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I disagree with this. We don't have to work off the Dubas numbers. Take Nylander for example. It simply came down to do you keep him at $11.5 or let him walk. We may not like those numbers because better players than Nylander are taking less than that (Tkachuk for example). But that doesn't matter, Nylander holds the cards, and you pay him his ask or let him walk or try to trade him. I personally can't let him walk when this team already can't score goals and he's the 2nd best scorer on the team. If we paid Tavares $11 as a UFA, what makes us think we'll do better this time swimming in the UFA waters? Yeah, I begrudgingly give Willy his money. But has nothing to do with Dubas. Dubas is gone and he did a lot of damage but the choices made today are on Tre alone (and possibly that Shanny guy who should be fired already).
Tre doesn't operate in a vacuum though, it was always relative to what had been established by his predecessor. You get top dollar. You get it all up front. His agent didn't budge because it was Nylander's turn.
 

socko

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Nov 26, 2013
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Tre doesn't operate in a vacuum though, it was always relative to what had been established by his predecessor. You get top dollar. You get it all up front. His agent didn't budge because it was Nylander's turn.
I mean you could try to squeeze top dollar out of Carolina. They wouldn't pay it, but you could try. There are always options available. The options available for a future UFA with a NMC are limited, but still options. I don't care what Dubas did or what precedent he set. Wouldn't mean a damn thing to me if I was doing these negotiations.
 

DarkKnight

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Jan 17, 2017
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I mean you could try to squeeze top dollar out of Carolina. They wouldn't pay it, but you could try. There are always options available. The options available for a future UFA with a NMC are limited, but still options. I don't care what Dubas did or what precedent he set. Wouldn't mean a damn thing to me if I was doing these negotiations.
Again, you don’t operate in a vacuum though, the culture doesn’t automatically change. So he should have let Nylander walk, because his agent was a stone wall from the onset by every report I’ve seen? It drives me nuts too, but I figured we’d get bent over by both of them, no matter who the GM is now, the precedents are just that, we can’t wish them away, unless we turf them all and start from scratch.
 

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