Brad Park Seen at Ranger Home Games?

[NYR Sting]

Wasn't he part of one of the jersey retirement ceremonies over the last few years?

 

[chosen]

I had always heard that the Rangers had an issue with him not the other way around.

Best player I ever saw in a Rangers uniform.

 

[eco's bones]

Leetch was a better player than Park--maybe not by much but still better IMO. That being said Park was an extraordinarily good defenseman and second best of his era behind Orr. IMO I'd rate Bobby Orr above Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, Messier etc. etc. Park was a great player but Orr's game was much more dynamic than his.

There were things about Brad's game that were very underrated though. He was not particularly big but he was very physical and a good fighter. He was a heart and soul player as well. He used to kill people with his hip check. They'd go somersaulting through the air. He was a really rounded player with a very good offensive game. Great puck skills--Chadwick used to say he could stickhandle in a telephone booth.

Denis Potvin came along and supplanted him as No. 2 and when Orr had to quit Potvin became the best d-man. I never liked Potvin by the way--and not just because of Nilsson. A bit of a primadonna like Mario Lemieux. He still is--a terrible homer of a color hockey analyst. Then Paul Coffey came along--more like Erik Karlsson these days--more about offense than defense but with the team the Oilers had that was just perfect.

 

[Crease]

Nice contribution eco. The only reason why Brad Park does not have multiple Norrises in a Rangers jersey is because of a guy named Bobby Orr.

The Rangers have really botched number retirements over the years. There is an argument that Leetch and Graves should never have had #2 and #9 available to them in the first place. And slightly off-topic, but I disagree with Grave's name being up there, regardless of number.

 

[Bluenote13]

Nice contribution eco. The only reason why Brad Park does not have multiple Norrises in a Rangers jersey is because of a guy named Bobby Orr.

The Rangers have really botched number retirements over the years. There is an argument that Leetch and Graves should never have had #2 and #9 available to them in the first place. And slightly off-topic, but I disagree with Grave's name being up there, regardless of number.

Graves?

I think it's a no brainer. Top 10 in games played and PIM's, top 3 in goals scored, single season goals scored record until Jagr broke it. And that's just the numbers.

 

[chosen]

Leetch was a better player than Park--maybe not by much but still better IMO. That being said Park was an extraordinarily good defenseman and second best of his era behind Orr. IMO I'd rate Bobby Orr above Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, Messier etc. etc. Park was a great player but Orr's game was much more dynamic than his.

There were things about Brad's game that were very underrated though. He was not particularly big but he was very physical and a good fighter. He was a heart and soul player as well. He used to kill people with his hip check. They'd go somersaulting through the air. He was a really rounded player with a very good offensive game. Great puck skills--Chadwick used to say he could stickhandle in a telephone booth.

Denis Potvin came along and supplanted him as No. 2 and when Orr had to quit Potvin became the best d-man. I never liked Potvin by the way--and not just because of Nilsson. A bit of a primadonna like Mario Lemieux. He still is--a terrible homer of a color hockey analyst. Then Paul Coffey came along--more like Erik Karlsson these days--more about offense than defense but with the team the Oilers had that was just perfect.

For the reasons you mentioned, Park, to me, was the better player. Park was his equal offensively, and as you pointed out, he was an incredibly tough defenseman. If there had been no Orr, Park would have been a god in Rangers lore.

And yes, Orr was definitely the best player I ever saw. He controlled games by himself. Lots of great quotes about him but the best was Bobby Hull. After the first period Hull played against Orr, as he was leaving the ice, he said to the ref that next period they will need two pucks, one for Orr and one for the rest of the players.

 

[Leaf Forever]

I had a chance to watch both Brad Park and classy Jean Ratelle and both deserve to have their #s 2 & 19 up in the rafters. If the Rangers ever want to truly connect with their past they will also honour Frank Boucher & Bill Cook.

 

[ThisYearsModel]

Leetch was a better player than Park--maybe not by much but still better IMO. That being said Park was an extraordinarily good defenseman and second best of his era behind Orr. IMO I'd rate Bobby Orr above Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, Messier etc. etc. Park was a great player but Orr's game was much more dynamic than his.

There were things about Brad's game that were very underrated though. He was not particularly big but he was very physical and a good fighter. He was a heart and soul player as well. He used to kill people with his hip check. They'd go somersaulting through the air. He was a really rounded player with a very good offensive game. Great puck skills--Chadwick used to say he could stickhandle in a telephone booth.

Denis Potvin came along and supplanted him as No. 2 and when Orr had to quit Potvin became the best d-man. I never liked Potvin by the way--and not just because of Nilsson. A bit of a primadonna like Mario Lemieux. He still is--a terrible homer of a color hockey analyst. Then Paul Coffey came along--more like Erik Karlsson these days--more about offense than defense but with the team the Oilers had that was just perfect.

Nice recap. The one thing Park was that Leetch wasn't.........he played angry. Not only was he tough and skilled, he was very difficult to play against. He played most games like someone on the opposing team kicked his dog during the warmups.

 

[Crease]

Graves?

I think it's a no brainer. Top 10 in games played and PIM's, top 3 in goals scored, single season goals scored record until Jagr broke it. And that's just the numbers.

Whats the case for Graves over Jean Ratelle, who has more games played, more goals, and better PPG? Or Hadfield for that matter, who is right behind him in Rangers goals and has more games played.

I just don't think Graves did enough on the ice to warrant his number being retired by an O6 franchise that appears to be incredibly picky with these things. The reason why he's up there is because Dolan is wringing as much out of the '94 legacy as possible and he's done a lot with the community. Two factors that I don't think should be part of the equation IMHO.

 

[eco's bones]

For the reasons you mentioned, Park, to me, was the better player. Park was his equal offensively, and as you pointed out, he was an incredibly tough defenseman. If there had been no Orr, Park would have been a god in Rangers lore.

And yes, Orr was definitely the best player I ever saw. He controlled games by himself. Lots of great quotes about him but the best was Bobby Hull. After the first period Hull played against Orr, as he was leaving the ice, he said to the ref that next period they will need two pucks, one for Orr and one for the rest of the players.

To me the way Leetch played was a lot like Orr. Absolutely graceful. Could do anything with the puck--tremendous vision. Also had a sense akin to Gretzky's (not quite as good though) of where the play was going to be a few seconds into the future. He was not an angry player--though in the Stanley Cup run he played very physical especially in the Devils series--drilled Claude Lemeiux several times. He was our best playoff performer that year and that should not be underestimated. I've been fanatically following the Rangers since the 1971-72 season and that is our only Stanley Cup over that period of time and Leetch's contribution to that is almost immeasurable. He was our best player in those playoffs--though I don't think we would have done it without at least several of the others including most especially Messier and Richter. It's unfortunate that the Park, Giacomin, Ratelle, Gilbert, Tkachuk, Neilson, Hadfield etc. team didn't get it done. If they had I might look at Park as more of an equal to Leetch.

 

[Bluenote13]

Whats the case for Graves over Jean Ratelle, who has more games played, more goals, and better PPG? Or Hadfield for that matter, who is right behind him in Rangers goals and has more games played.

I just don't think Graves did enough on the ice to warrant his number being retired by an O6 franchise that appears to be incredibly picky with these things. The reason why he's up there is because Dolan is wringing as much out of the '94 legacy as possible and he's done a lot with the community. Two factors that I don't think should be part of the equation IMHO.

Winning a Cup after 54 years matters.

Off ice stuff, it matters obviously.

Guy was a warrior, never called it in, played both sides of the rink playing top line minutes most of that time.

I'd also like to know what other Rangers besides the Gag line, have scored at least 20 goals 9 seasons in a row. If not for the lockout of '95 Graves would have done it.

Meh, don't ask me, I'm not as strict as most people when it comes to HOF's.

 

[eco's bones]

I had a chance to watch both Brad Park and classy Jean Ratelle and both deserve to have their #s 2 & 19 up in the rafters. If the Rangers ever want to truly connect with their past they will also honour Frank Boucher & Bill Cook.

Agreed--if you're going to honor your greats you should do it all the way. The problem is I don't think that there are too many out there that actually remember seeing the Cook's or Boucher (Ching Johnson) play. There's very few (I'm not one of them) left who've seen the likes of Howell or Bathgate in Ranger uniforms. Rangers also had a number of greats who only played for them briefly like Doug Harvey, Bill Gadsby, Bernie Geoffrion, Jacques Plante.

 

[eco's bones]

Winning a Cup after 54 years matters.

Off ice stuff, it matters obviously.

Guy was a warrior, never called it in, played both sides of the rink playing top line minutes most of that time.

I'd also like to know what other Rangers besides the Gag line, have scored at least 20 goals 9 seasons in a row. If not for the lockout of '95 Graves would have done it.

Meh, don't ask me, I'm not as strict as most people when it comes to HOF's.

To me Graves set the standard for what you want a Ranger forward to be. Hardworking, unrelenting, clutch, skilled and tough and always there when his teammates were in trouble. Some of these factors override the fact that he wasn't a truly great player and probably not HOF worthy--though certainly as good a forward as Bob Gainey or Clark Gillies both of whom are HOF'ers.

 

[ThisYearsModel]

To me the way Leetch played was a lot like Orr. Absolutely graceful. Could do anything with the puck--tremendous vision. Also had a sense akin to Gretzky's (not quite as good though) of where the play was going to be a few seconds into the future. He was not an angry player--though in the Stanley Cup run he played very physical especially in the Devils series--drilled Claude Lemeiux several times. He was our best playoff performer that year and that should not be underestimated. I've been fanatically following the Rangers since the 1971-72 season and that is our only Stanley Cup over that period of time and Leetch's contribution to that is almost immeasurable. He was our best player in those playoffs--though I don't think we would have done it without at least several of the others including most especially Messier and Richter. It's unfortunate that the Park, Giacomin, Ratelle, Gilbert, Tkachuk, Neilson, Hadfield etc. team didn't get it done. If they had I might look at Park as more of an equal to Leetch.

Let me say that I believe Brian Leetch is the best home grown Ranger ever. Now, about comparing him with Bobby Orr..............there is no comparison. Bobby Orr skated the way Brian Leetch could only dream about skating. He hit, he fought, he passed, he shot, he absolutely controlled games. Orr had extra gears that got him around defenders. I am old enough to have seen the early 70's Rangers and their opponents. For me, Bobby Orr is the greatest player I ever saw. Better than Gretzky, Lemieux and all the rest. Too bad his knees gave out. He broke my heart multiple times in the playoffs, but he was one of a kind. Phil Esposito owes his HOF induction to Bobby Orr.

 

[chosen]

Leetch was a better player than Park--maybe not by much but still better IMO. That being said Park was an extraordinarily good defenseman and second best of his era behind Orr. IMO I'd rate Bobby Orr above Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, Messier etc. etc. Park was a great player but Orr's game was much more dynamic than his.

There were things about Brad's game that were very underrated though. He was not particularly big but he was very physical and a good fighter. He was a heart and soul player as well. He used to kill people with his hip check. They'd go somersaulting through the air. He was a really rounded player with a very good offensive game. Great puck skills--Chadwick used to say he could stickhandle in a telephone booth.

Denis Potvin came along and supplanted him as No. 2 and when Orr had to quit Potvin became the best d-man. I never liked Potvin by the way--and not just because of Nilsson. A bit of a primadonna like Mario Lemieux. He still is--a terrible homer of a color hockey analyst. Then Paul Coffey came along--more like Erik Karlsson these days--more about offense than defense but with the team the Oilers had that was just perfect.

For the reasons you mentioned, Park, to me, was the better player. Park was his equal offensively, and as you pointed out, he was an incredibly tough defenseman. If there had been no Orr, Park would have been a god in Rangers lore.

And yes, Orr was definitely the best player I ever saw. He controlled games by himself. Lots of great quotes about him but the best was Bobby Hull. After the first period Hull played against Orr, as he was leaving the ice, he said to the ref that next period they will need two pucks, one for Orr and one for the rest of the players.

 

[Crease]

Incredibly jealous of those who saw Orr live. I'm only old enough to remember the second half of Gretzky's career. Luck of the draw I suppose.

 

[Bluenote13]

Incredibly jealous of those who saw Orr live. I'm only old enough to remember the second half of Gretzky's career. Luck of the draw I suppose.

I was unlucky to come in just as Orr was hanging them up, but lucky in that Gretz was just getting started, 1979.

And even though I was too young to see the Gag line, Park and Giacomin, my Dad was a huge fan, so I knew about alot of the 70's players once I got into hockey. Park could do it all, but in Leetch's day he didn't have to - he and Beuk=Park

 

[eco's bones]

More on Orr--Orr fought occasionally but he wasn't on the level of toughness with Park. On the Bruins team he played for fighting was a rite of passage (they weren't called the Big Bad Bruins for nothing) and every single one of their players were expected to be willing to drop the gloves. The Rangers Stanley Cup team was super tough but it wasn't necessary for guys like Leetch, Zubov or Kovalev to ever have to resort to that. In any case when I said that Leetch reminded me of Orr I didn't mean to say he was as good. It's a hard to qualify players of one era to another in any case. The thing to keep in mind with Orr is he absolutely revolutionized the game pretty much from the moment he first put his skates on NHL ice as a 17?-18? year old. Defensemen before him did not take the chances that he did. Winning scoring titles--putting up 100 point seasons were even unheard of for forwards. He singlehandedly changed the game profoundly even moreso than Gretzky would later on.

 

[chosen]

To me the way Leetch played was a lot like Orr. Absolutely graceful. Could do anything with the puck--tremendous vision. Also had a sense akin to Gretzky's (not quite as good though) of where the play was going to be a few seconds into the future. He was not an angry player--though in the Stanley Cup run he played very physical especially in the Devils series--drilled Claude Lemeiux several times. He was our best playoff performer that year and that should not be underestimated. I've been fanatically following the Rangers since the 1971-72 season and that is our only Stanley Cup over that period of time and Leetch's contribution to that is almost immeasurable. He was our best player in those playoffs--though I don't think we would have done it without at least several of the others including most especially Messier and Richter. It's unfortunate that the Park, Giacomin, Ratelle, Gilbert, Tkachuk, Neilson, Hadfield etc. team didn't get it done. If they had I might look at Park as more of an equal to Leetch.

I detest your logic as to the Stanley Cup win being a deciding factor in determining a player's overall worth. I saw it used by many other fans when talk of Bourque and especially Hasek came up. Besides Orr, Bourque was possibly the equal of any defenseman I ever saw. Yet, I knew some who said he was good but he never won while with Boston. Nonsense.

The bizarre one was when people said the same thing about Hasek while he was in Buffalo. To me, Hasek was head and shoulders over any goalie I ever saw. All of those Vezinas should have made that abundantly clear.

The only reason Graves was retired was because his team won and his three buddies had already received the honor. Park was one of the all-time greats of the game. Graves was a good player and a great guy but was nowhere near the talent of Park. It is a joke that his number was retired and Park's was not.

Read any book about the greatest players ever to play and Park will be in that book. No book will include Graves' name.

 

[chosen]

More on Orr--Orr fought occasionally but he wasn't on the level of toughness with Park. On the Bruins team he played for fighting was a rite of passage (they weren't called the Big Bad Bruins for nothing) and every single one of their players were expected to be willing to drop the gloves. The Rangers Stanley Cup team was super tough but it wasn't necessary for guys like Leetch, Zubov or Kovalev to ever have to resort to that. In any case when I said that Leetch reminded me of Orr I didn't mean to say he was as good. It's a hard to qualify players of one era to another in any case. The thing to keep in mind with Orr is he absolutely revolutionized the game pretty much from the moment he first put his skates on NHL ice as a 17?-18? year old. Defensemen before him did not take the chances that he did. Winning scoring titles--putting up 100 point seasons were even unheard of for forwards. He singlehandedly changed the game profoundly even moreso than Gretzky would later on.

Orr fought Park in a playoff game at MSG. Granted it was more of a mutual show of respect wrestling match.

I used to work for an auction house and we sold a film of Orr playing in juniors with Oshawa. It was like watching Michael Jordan on a basketball court against 5 year-old girls. Then again, Orr was so much better than any Nhl player at the time.

My favorite stat of his was his going plus 100 in a season. I doubt that one will ever be broken.

 

[the fife flyer]

Would like to see some 80's Rangers show up once in a while.

It;s like the Rangers have dis-associated themselves with the whole decade.

I want to see the favorites liek Ron Scott, Rob McClananhan and Mark Morrison

Is that this one http://rangers.nhl.com/club/atrplayer.htm?id=8449717

He was player/coach for my home team in Scotland, The Fife Flyers, for around 12 years.
He still recommends signings for us through Victoria Salmon Kings.
He is an absolute legend in these parts.

 

[eco's bones]

I detest your logic as to the Stanley Cup win being a deciding factor in determining a player's overall worth. I saw it used by many other fans when talk of Bourque and especially Hasek came up. Besides Orr, Bourque was possibly the equal of any defenseman I ever saw. Yet, I knew some who said he was good but he never won while with Boston. Nonsense.

The bizarre one was when people said the same thing about Hasek while he was in Buffalo. To me, Hasek was head and shoulders over any goalie I ever saw. All of those Vezinas should have made that abundantly clear.

The only reason Graves was retired was because his team won and his three buddies had already received the honor. Park was one of the all-time greats of the game. Graves was a good player and a great guy but was nowhere near the talent of Park. It is a joke that his number was retired and Park's was not.

Read any book about the greatest players ever to play and Park will be in that book. No book will include Graves' name.

Detesting is up to you but Brad Park--as great as he was--never led his team to the cup and Brian Leetch did. Brian Leetch was the best player in that Stanley Cup playoffs which is something Brad Park never was. Against the Bruins in the 72' finals Park was undressed by Ace Bailey (a 4th line Bruins winger who btw was a passenger on one of the planes that crashed into the towers on 9/11) for a game winning goal after the Rangers had come from a few goals behind in one game. If I remember correctly he was also on ice when JP Parise scored a few seconds into overtime to knock the Rangers out of the playoffs a couple years later. Park had his moments where he failed big time and he never did win a cup--either with the Rangers, Bruins, Wings in an over 20 year career. A very deserving HOF'er nonetheless but sorry I tend to see the warts too.

 

[chosen]

Detesting is up to you but Brad Park--as great as he was--never led his team to the cup and Brian Leetch did. Brian Leetch was the best player in that Stanley Cup playoffs which is something Brad Park never was. Against the Bruins in the 72' finals Park was undressed by Ace Bailey (a 4th line Bruins winger who btw was a passenger on one of the planes that crashed into the towers on 9/11) for a game winning goal after the Rangers had come from a few goals behind in one game. If I remember correctly he was also on ice when JP Parise scored a few seconds into overtime to knock the Rangers out of the playoffs a couple years later. Park had his moments where he failed big time and he never did win a cup--either with the Rangers, Bruins, Wings in an over 20 year career. A very deserving HOF'er nonetheless but sorry I tend to see the warts too.

Park was on the ice for a goal against!

If I had known that I would never have felt the way I previously did. Thankfully Leetch was never on ice for one of those. How about some of the stinkers Richter gave up in the playoffs? How could they retire his number?

So, was Bourque's career in Boston lessened by never winning a Cup there? Hasek in Buffalo? Osgood won more cups than Hasek. Guess he was better. Logic is fun.

 

[bernmeister]

Great posts!

Couple of points....IMO...
.
There is room to share #2 between both Park and Leetch.

Leetch was definitely an Orr lite, but there was only one Bobby Orr.

Off the top of my head, for all time Ds approximately contemporary on the same team, I say Park and Leetch was only bested, clearly but slightly, by Orr and Bourque.

A #of guys were great, and played longer in a different era, racking up more #s.

But while you have to give the devil his due, if you go one year/benchmark of his prime, if you get to choose one guy for your team for one game, then I take Park over anybody other than Orr.

In the case of Potvin, IMO, IAEC.

In the case of guys like Coffey, it's because I consider Park a better do it all guy than most of them.

Several alternates you can't go wrong, if they're you preference; Rod Langway comes to mind.

But to me, Park is and will always be one of our very best, ever, for all times.

 

[Giacomin]

As a Rangers fan since 1971 I got to see Park play several seasons with the Rangers and in no way does he compare to Leetch as far as great Rangers. It seems like the legend of Brad Park as a Ranger has grown over the years. I remember the consensus when he got traded was that he was a very good defenseman but would never lead the Rangers to a Stanley Cup.
Well the Rangers traded him to Boston and they never won one there with him. A very good Ranger but he falls a little short in my book as a great Ranger. 8 years and several playoff disapointments doesn,t do it for my as far as being a great Ranger!