Proposal: Bourque and Dumba to Pittsburgh

[SenzZen]

Lots of people ITT sleeping on Bourque, but I assure you Jim Nill is not.

As others have said, lots of teams beat OP's offer.

Never send a boy to do a man's job. If you want the guy, come correct.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Jarvis never had a 20p season, he wouldn't use Kotkaniemi as a comparable.
And his pay is closer to 10m than it is to Kotkaniemi. that's a bad example

Jarvis was so much more productive than Kotka that he could've justified asking for a ridiculous amount more. He didn't. And if you think the Canes are going to pay their next 20 point RFA 6 mil per because you believe Kotka set that precedent, prepare to be disappointed.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Lots of people ITT sleeping on Bourque, but I assure you Jim Nill is not.

As others have said, lots of teams beat OP's offer.

Never send a boy to do a man's job. If you want the guy, come correct.

If he's paying Bourque 4.5 mil per, he's losing someone elsewhere.

 

[Quatre Vingt Treize]

Let em offer

Habs would offer Colombus #2 next year?

 

[M88K]

If he's paying Bourque 4.5 mil per, he's losing someone elsewhere.

Bourque isn't getting 4.5m.
Nobody is going to offer Bourque that either.

 

[SenzZen]

If he's paying Bourque 4.5 mil per, he's losing someone elsewhere.

But why should he treat Pittsburgh like a charity case? That person he loses could be Dumba, even.

I get why you’re after Bourque, but that offer doesn’t get it done.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Bourque isn't getting 4.5m.
Nobody is going to offer Bourque that either.

The Penguins are nowhere even close to the cap and they wouldn't particularly care if they're overpaying Bourque for a year or two. It's the same thing that St. Louis did with Broberg and Holloway.

 

[Empoleon8771]

But why should he treat Pittsburgh like a charity case? That person he loses could be Dumba, even.

I get why you’re after Bourque, but that offer doesn’t get it done.

Dallas likely has to pay to get rid of Dumba and I'm pretty skeptical they even have the money to re-sign Bourque even if they get rid of Dumba.

They have $5.8 million in cap space with only 15/23 roster spots filled for next year.

 

[M88K]

Dallas likely has to pay to get rid of Dumba and I'm pretty skeptical they even have the money to re-sign Bourque even if they get rid of Dumba.

They have $5.8 million in cap space with only 15/23 roster spots filled for next year.

They absolutely have the money to re-sign bourque, especially dumping Dumba.
Dumba and Marchment will be traded long before Bourque. Which opens more than enough space to fill out the roster.
Lyubushkin would likely be moved too before they're moving on from Bourque, especially for nothing as in OP

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

But why should he treat Pittsburgh like a charity case? That person he loses could be Dumba, even.

I get why you’re after Bourque, but that offer doesn’t get it done.

Huh? Dumba is a cap dump and not even close to what they'd need to move in order to re-sign all their actual contributors.

And if that offer isn't appealing, an offer sheet is fine. We'll let Dallas do the financial gymnastics.

 

[Empoleon8771]

They absolutely have the money to re-sign bourque, especially dumping Dumba.
Dumba and Marchment will be traded long before Bourque. Which opens more than enough space to fill out the roster.
Lyubushkin would likely be moved too before they're moving on from Bourque, especially for nothing as in OP

If someone is throwing a $4 million offersheet at Bourque, they absolutely do not have the cap space to re-sign him.

Dallas definitely has to pay to get rid of Dumba and probably will have to pay to get rid of Lyubushkin as well. Teams aren't going to willingly help out Dallas get out of the cap problems they inflicted on themselves.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Huh? Dumba is a cap dump and not even close to what they'd need to move in order to re-sign all their actual contributors.

And if that offer isn't appealing, an offer sheet is fine. We'll let Dallas do the financial gymnastics.

Assuming Bourque is even willing to sign an offer sheet, why would he sign one from Pittsburgh over any other team that would be interested?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Assuming Bourque is even willing to sign an offer sheet, why would he sign one from Pittsburgh over any other team that would be interested?

Because a lot of other teams probably can't offer him the money that the Penguins can offer him.

The Penguins can do the same thing the Blues did with Broberg last year because they're not very good and have plenty of cap space to overpay a talented young player.

 

[SenzZen]

Huh? Dumba is a cap dump and not even close to what they'd need to move in order to re-sign all their actual contributors.

And if that offer isn't appealing, an offer sheet is fine. We'll let Dallas do the financial gymnastics.

The point I was trying to make is that this isn’t binary, like you’re positing: lose Bourque to an offer sheet, or take our low-ball offer.

There’s lots of possibilities, and lots of teams who can offer more- like it or not.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The point I was trying to make is that this isn’t binary, like you’re positing: lose Bourque to an offer sheet, or take our low-ball offer.

There’s lots of possibilities, and lots of teams who can offer more- like it or not.

But again, why are teams going to offer more? Bourque's value is likely only a 2nd or so and Dallas likely has to pay to get out of Dumba's deal.

I'm still not seeing an actual argument for why teams would offer "more".

 

[Captain Mountain]

Because a lot of other teams probably can't offer him the money that the Penguins can offer him.

Calgary, Columbus, San Jose, Chicago, Philadelphia, Montreal, and more can all offer him the money Pittsburgh can.

And considering we just saw St. Louis maneuver to create space and acquire picks to make offer sheets, we can't assume that teams that may not have the money now wont during the summer.

Its not the flat cap anymore, there would likely need to be more than just offering him money. Unless Pittsburgh wants to give Dallas their 2026 1st, which I doubt they would.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Calgary, Columbus, San Jose, Chicago, Philadelphia, Montreal, and more can all offer him the money Pittsburgh can.

And considering we just saw St. Louis maneuver to create space and acquire picks to make offer sheets, we can't assume that teams that may not have the money now wont during the summer.

Its not the flat cap anymore, there would likely need to be more than just offering him money. Unless Pittsburgh wants to give Dallas their 2026 1st, which I doubt they would.

Okay, maybe he wants to sign with the Penguins because they have Crosby and the Penguins plan on using Bourque with Crosby to pump up his production?

The "why would he sign with you over someone else?" argument is bizarre. We have no clue what any of these players actually want. In a vacuum, the Penguins can just throw Bourque a 2nd round compensation offersheet that he'd likely sign (because he'd be getting paid way more than he'd be worth) and Dallas couldn't match if Dallas isn't willing to take a 2nd for him.

 

[M88K]

There's so many dumb takes in here.
We'll see what happens in a month

 

[Captain Mountain]

Okay, maybe he wants to sign with the Penguins because they have Crosby and the Penguins plan on using Bourque with Crosby to pump up his production?

The "why would he sign with you over someone else?" argument is bizarre. We have no clue what any of these players actually want. In a vacuum, the Penguins can just throw Bourque a 2nd round compensation offersheet that he'd likely sign (because he'd be getting paid way more than he'd be worth) and Dallas couldn't match if Dallas isn't willing to take a 2nd for him.

I didn't say "an offer sheet is fine. We'll let Dallas do the financial gymnastics." Which assumes that he would both sign an offersheet and that he would sign an offersheet from the Penguins (either because they're the only team who would make an offersheet, would make the biggest offer or that he would choose them).

Those assumptions are the issue and the latter assumption is what you chose to push back on.

My issue is that I think that Pittsburgh wouldn't be the only team interested at 2nd round pick value, and if they're not the only team interested then there's a good chance his value is greater than a 2nd round pick.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The point I was trying to make is that this isn’t binary, like you’re positing: lose Bourque to an offer sheet, or take our low-ball offer.

There’s lots of possibilities, and lots of teams who can offer more- like it or not.

Never said it was binary, only that it would be dumb to offer more if you can put out the offer sheet instead. He's not a can't miss guy you overpay for.

I doubt many teams are looking to spend 4.5 mil per on him based on his meagre NHL track record, but we'll see. If the Pens put an offer sheet out and he goes elsewhere, no sweat.

 

[FerrisRox]

Unlikely. Offer sheets are rare to begin with, and one for a player who's done as little as Bourque at the NHL level with no draft pedigree is even rarer.

Offer sheets aren't nearly as rare as you think they are.

Offer sheets are only made public when they are accepted. Many times a player is approached about an offer-sheet and the agent can then return to the club that owns their rights and tell them about the offer and see how they respond. The offer, or the threat of an impeding offer, can often lead to a contract with their existing team.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Offer sheets aren't nearly as rare as you think they are.

Offer sheets are only made public when they are accepted. Many times a player is approached about an offer-sheet and the agent can then return to the club that owns their rights and tell them about the offer and see how they respond. The offer, or the threat of an impeding offer, can often lead to a contract with their existing team.

Show me the receipts

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Hate to break it to everyone but Dumba is an NHL right-shot defenseman which means that he probably has some minimal value and will not be a cap dump

Evidently nobody learned from the Seth Jones trade.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Offer sheets aren't nearly as rare as you think they are.

Offer sheets are only made public when they are accepted. Many times a player is approached about an offer-sheet and the agent can then return to the club that owns their rights and tell them about the offer and see how they respond. The offer, or the threat of an impeding offer, can often lead to a contract with their existing team.

They're not rare, but this isn't exactly the likely time for them to be common.

They're only really successful when a team already has the screws put to them by the salary cap. It's going up so much over the next three years that nobody really does. Even Dallas.

 

[Jared Dunn]

An accepted RFA offer sheet only costs the offering team a 2nd up to ~4.5 mil per, and the Stars wouldn't get rid of Dumba in that scenario.

Is that a better outcome?

Buying him out and not giving away Bourque is!