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Bouchard vs Dobson

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Hippasus

Hippasus

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KevinRedkey said:
I think Dobson was better this past regular season, but Bouchard's recent playoff run was better than anything I've seen from either of before it. One one hand, that could mean Bouchard has 'leveled up' to surpass Dobson. On the other, he may have just been on a well timed hot streak, and Dobson is still the better player.

I'm I'm on the fence here TBH.
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Bouchard's game was clicking down the stretch of the regular season too. 24 GP, 22 PTS from March onwards.
 
Fourier

Fourier

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Regal said:
I don’t know why people think Dobson’s defense is an advantage. Both guys have their share of gaffs/bad games still and both can look great in other games. I’d say Bouchard’s defensive game got better as the year went along though whereas Dobson’s got worse leading to a poor playoffs. Bouchard’s underlying defensive numbers are also way better, though I do think they’re influenced partly by teammates. I don’t think it’s definitive either way but I’d probably take Bouchard right now for his strong playoff performances.
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Its admittedly a small sample size but in 100 minutes away from all of McDavid, Draisaitl and Ekholm here are his numbers:

CF% 59.20 SF% 65.93 GF% 57.14 xGF% 65.15 SCF% 60.76 HDCF% 64.71 OZFO% 50%

With Ekholm away from the other two in just under 300 minutes:

CF% 56.32 SF% 56.32 GF% 53.57 xGF% 51.70 SCF% 53.91 HDCF% 53.21 OZFO% 47.22%

Now there is always additional context needed in terms of who was on the ice for the opposition at various times. But the reality is that in pretty much every situation the Oilers as a team do better both offensively and defensively when Bouchard is on the ice.

 
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Three On Zero

Three On Zero

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Hippasus said:
Nothing against Barrie, but this just doesn't seem right. The sky is the limit for a defenseman like Bouchard as long as he has forwards on his wavelength, and a meat-and-potatoes defenseman like Eckholm next to him.
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So you’re saying a player like Bouchard is only as good as the defenceman beside him and the forwards in front of him
 
Hippasus

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Three On Zero said:
So you’re saying a player like Bouchard is only as good as the defenceman beside him and the forwards in front of him
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He might be able to be "the guy" in some contexts, but yeah, I think Bouchard thrives more as a complementary player. Hockey is a team sport after all.
 

Regal

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Fourier said:
Its admittedly a small sample size but in 100 minutes away from all of McDavid, Draisaitl and Ekholm here are his numbers:

CF% 59.20 SF% 65.93 GF% 57.14 xGF% 65.15 SCF% 60.76 HDCF% 64.71 OZFO% 50%

With Ekholm away from the other two in just under 300 minutes:

CF% 56.32 SF% 56.32 GF% 53.57 xGF% 51.70 SCF% 53.91 HDCF% 53.21 OZFO% 47.22%

Now there is always additional context needed in terms of who was on the ice for the opposition at various times. But the reality is that in pretty much every situation the Oilers as a team do better both offensively and defensively when Bouchard is on the ice.

Click to expand...

Like you said though, the sample size is pretty tiny here. Reilly-Dobson as a pairing had 88 minutes with a 67% xGF% but I wouldn’t put a lot of stock into that either. Bouchard has made the most of his situation but it is a great situation and watching him I don’t believe he’s the near-elite defensive player some of the defensive stats suggest, though he’s better than his reputation.
 
Fourier

Fourier

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Regal said:
Like you said though, the sample size is pretty tiny here. Reilly-Dobson as a pairing had 88 minutes with a 67% xGF% but I wouldn’t put a lot of stock into that either. Bouchard has made the most of his situation but it is a great situation and watching him I don’t believe he’s the near-elite defensive player some of the defensive stats suggest, though he’s better than his reputation.
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I don't think anyone claims he is elite defensively. The problem is that as you point out he is not the tire fire everyone thinks he is either and its not just because he plays with good players, He has taken big steps forward on his defensive game which is predicated in good part by his ability to get the puck moving in the right direction. He is also playing with more bite and urgency.

There is more than one way to get the job done as a defender. But one thing that is true is that if the puck ain't in your end the opposition probably won't score. Different players of course but I watched Coffey live for years. While people thought he was bad defensively what was true is that when he was on the ice the puck was far more often than not moving in the right direction. Bouchard was in the 97th percentile last year for time spent in the defensive zone for defensemen. He's not solely responsible for this of course but he is certainly not getting pinned in his own end regardless of who he plays with.
 
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biturbo19

biturbo19

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For me, it was Dobson at the draft, Dobson when polls popped up as they were both just breaking in, Dobson today, and Dobson going forward.

Above all else, Dobson's huge mobility edge > Bouche Bomb. Bouchard is a good fit with the Oilers, but lucky to be there, where his weaknesses are largely masked and offset by the skillset that he does have and the way that fits with two of the best players in the world.
 
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