Value of: Bottom pairing PMD to the Rangers

[One Winged Angel]

freel free to recommend an improved variant, mindful that all of Stepan's 6.5 went the other way, no retaining.

Arguably, if Murphy remains, then it satisfies demand to acknowledge title, and is not thread hijacking.

I'll pass, they're not dealing Stepan after dealing Brassard.

The idea of doing so and not getting a capable 1st line center back in return is stupidity.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

McIlrath from pressbox to ice.

/thread

I'm convinced some of you like McIlrath so much because he doesn't make 5.7 million or 5.5 million.

He was at best a bottom pairing defenseman last season, and his style isn't all too different from the style of many other defenseman who are better and more experienced. Unless we are trading Kevin Klein, I don't think he has much of a role with the Rangers.

WHY?

A Bottom pair PMD does NOTHING to improve a team.

I've never heard of someone looking for a bottom pair PMD in my life till now. And especially giving up good assests to do so! (McI? Lindberg? Wtf?) There are literally a dozen bottom pair defenseman you could sign as a FA. But nobody does because nobody wants them. I think Thomas Pock is looking for a job again.

The team needs puck moving defenseman. Staal, Girardi, Klein, McIlrath, Holden. Too immobile, don't pass the puck well enough, don't put up enough points. We lost Yandle and Boyle, the two PMD on the team from last season. People already said we struggled to move the puck, what do you think is going to happen this season?

Also, I don't really think Lindberg and McIlrath are good assets. I think Lindberg is a 13th forward. Not that good offensively and not that good defensively. If you think he's good, maybe you think he's a bottom 6 forward, but he's really not much more than that. McIlrath is a 6D right now with the chance to be a #4/5. Thats not that good of an asset. Giving up McI for a 6D is a lateral move in terms of caliber, but gives us a much needed PMD.

 

[Master Scheif]

I'd love to see Paul Postma utilized more in Winnipeg, but if that doesn't happen, he deserves better. This guy is one of the best skaters on our team, and he absolutely deserves more ice time. Can be lost in the d-zone sometimes. Every once in a while he gets a shot to play, man can he skate with the puck. I'd love to see what he could do with a steady partner and minutes. (RHD)

 

[Major Happy*]

lol the rags need way more then bottom pairing d-men, awful depth, just brutal, terrible, ugly, ewwww.

 

[Major Happy*]

WHY?

A Bottom pair PMD does NOTHING to improve a team.

I've never heard of someone looking for a bottom pair PMD in my life till now. And especially giving up good assests to do so! (McI? Lindberg? Wtf?) There are literally a dozen bottom pair defenseman you could sign as a FA. But nobody does because nobody wants them. I think Thomas Pock is looking for a job again.

lol those assets are garbage.

 

[silverfish]

I'm convinced some of you like McIlrath so much because he doesn't make 5.7 million or 5.5 million.

He was at best a bottom pairing defenseman last season, and his style isn't all too different from the style of many other defenseman who are better and more experienced. Unless we are trading Kevin Klein, I don't think he has much of a role with the Rangers.

I think a lot of us like McIlrath so much because in the majority of games that he played, he was the Rangers best RHD.

 

[Not So Mighty]

Sbisa is a great PMD. He just happens to move the puck the wrong way.

Top notch commentary.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Cody Franson is your guy. Would come pretty cheaply too.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think a lot of us like McIlrath so much because in the majority of games that he played, he was the Rangers best RHD.

So you mean his corsi will be better with sheltered minutes?

Same argument was used a year ago for why Boyle was good.

Same reason why everyone likes the back up QB. Its hard to criticize someone who barely plays.

 

[silverfish]

So you mean his corsi will be better with sheltered minutes?

Same argument was used a year ago for why Boyle was good.

Same reason why everyone likes the back up QB. Its hard to criticize someone who barely plays.

Yes, that plays a part, but believe it or not, it's not the whole thing. The people who put all this weight into Corsi as a singular means of evaluating a player don't exist.

He was also more effective with Yandle and Staal than Girardi was. The bad games that you are remembering Dylan play are the ones where he was paired with Boyle when Boyle was trying to play LD, but was really playing god knows what.

When he was on the ice, he suppressed scoring chances against, and his goals for percentage was through the roof relative to other Rangers (+14.15%). That's not a coincidence. Was this against lighter competition than other Rangers D faced? Sure. Did he over-perform in the situations he was used in? He sure did.

Believe me, I'm not sitting here hoping Nassib is under center or Raanta is in net.

I am hoping that McIlrath gets a chance to continue proving that he belongs in the lineup every night.

 

[BA Carroll]

Still haven't warmed up to the idea of Kreider + Tambellini for Shattenkirk, eh?

That's ok. If you're looking for a "bottom pairing PMD" (an oxymoron if I've ever heard one), the Blues still might be good partners.

Although they certainly wouldn't be looking to make such a deal--especially given that they're still likely to trade Shattenkirk--it probably wouldn't take much to get them to consider moving Butler or Gunnarson--both of whom are fantastic shot blockers and have a great outlet pass.

For that matter, while the Blues are still high on him, Bortuzzo would also be a movable asset that might appeal to you, if you want to add some toughness on the back end.

Regardless, the Blues have enviable depth on D, with or without Shattenkirk. That's a nice luxury to have, and they'll want value coming back, even for a bottom pairing defenseman.

 

[NYRFAN218]

Still haven't warmed up to the idea of Kreider + Tambellini for Shattenkirk, eh?

That's ok. If you're looking for a "bottom pairing PMD" (an oxymoron if I've ever heard one), the Blues still might be good partners.

Although they certainly wouldn't be looking to make such a deal--especially given that they're still likely to trade Shattenkirk--it probably wouldn't take much to get them to consider moving Butler or Gunnarson--both of whom are fantastic shot blockers and have a great outlet pass.

For that matter, while the Blues are still high on him, Bortuzzo would also be a movable asset that might appeal to you, if you want to add some toughness on the back end.

Regardless, the Blues have enviable depth on D, with or without Shattenkirk. That's a nice luxury to have, and they'll want value coming back, even for a bottom pairing defenseman.

There's absolutely no reason for the Rangers to give up a young and locked up asset in Kreider for Shattenkirk who is signed for 1 year when the Rangers realistically aren't Cup contenders with or without him this upcoming season. They're better off just waiting the year and seeing if they can get him for free if/when he hits UFA.

 

[BA Carroll]

There's absolutely no reason for the Rangers to give up a young and locked up asset in Kreider for Shattenkirk who is signed for 1 year when the Rangers realistically aren't Cup contenders with or without him this upcoming season. They're better off just waiting the year and seeing if they can get him for free if/when he hits UFA.

Yes yes, we've heard all about it in the 47 other Shattenkirk threads. That's why mentioning him at all was tongue-in-cheek, to anyone who has paid any attention at all on this forum for the last 6 weeks.

You don't need to convince me--you're fine that your team isn't competing this year, and yet your convinced that a quality UFA defenseman is going to sign with your non-competing team. Yawn.
We'll get a much better offer from New Jersey, Boston or Detroit, and your team won't be any closer anyway. Glad we're all fine with that.

But back on point, were you interested in a bottom pairing defenseman or not? I believe I mentioned three that could be had for the right price.

Of course, they'll be UFAs in a year or two, so you may as well think of them as rentals, which--of course--means that you should be able to get them for next to nothing. Which is good, because they certainly wouldn't re-sign with a team that's ok with not trying to compete, and it would be a pity if you gave up a quality asset to acquire a 6th defenseman who might walk in a year, with nothing to show for it.

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

We have no room on the left side. The right side, we don't have room either, unless somebody goes. It doesn't make much sense to trade McIlrath for another fringe player. We have a log jam on defense until we can get rid of a Girardi or Staal.


McDonagh
Klein
Holden
Staal
SkJEI
Girardi
McIlrath
Clendening
Summers
Paliotta

Adding another bottom pairing fringe player is useless. If we're looking for a really good bottom pairing player, that's fine, but somebody clearly needs to go.

If they can't move Staal or Girardi, then Klein will eventually be the odd man out. They could get a nice return for him. Top-4 defender who had a good year production-wise, on a 2.9M cap-hit.

 

[gorangers0525]

All good defenseman should be able to move the puck.

 

[NYRFAN218]

Yes yes, we've heard all about it in the 47 other Shattenkirk threads. That's why mentioning him at all was tongue-in-cheek, to anyone who has paid any attention at all on this forum for the last 6 weeks.

You don't need to convince me--you're fine that your team isn't competing this year, and yet your convinced that a quality UFA defenseman is going to sign with your non-competing team. Yawn.
We'll get a much better offer from New Jersey, Boston or Detroit, and your team won't be any closer anyway. Glad we're all fine with that.

But back on point, were you interested in a bottom pairing defenseman or not? I believe I mentioned three that could be had for the right price.

Of course, they'll be UFAs in a year or two, so you may as well think of them as rentals, which--of course--means that you should be able to get them for next to nothing. Which is good, because they certainly wouldn't re-sign with a team that's ok with not trying to compete, and it would be a pity if you gave up a quality asset to acquire a 6th defenseman who might walk in a year, with nothing to show for it.

Who said the Rangers aren't trying to compete? Because Ranger fans are looking more than a year out in regards to the team? This is a transition year if there ever was one. They'll probably finish anywhere between 3rd and 6th in the division and are in the pack of teams after TBL, FLA, PIT, and WSH that could either make the playoffs or miss. It's about being realistic and giving up assets for Shattenkirk when he's got 1 year left makes zero sense for a team in their position.

I don't even know what your last paragraph is getting at so I won't bother with it. And I barely come to the trade board, especially during dead periods, so apologies for not looking at the 47 Shattenkirk threads.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Yes, that plays a part, but believe it or not, it's not the whole thing. The people who put all this weight into Corsi as a singular means of evaluating a player don't exist.

He was also more effective with Yandle and Staal than Girardi was. The bad games that you are remembering Dylan play are the ones where he was paired with Boyle when Boyle was trying to play LD, but was really playing god knows what.

When he was on the ice, he suppressed scoring chances against, and his goals for percentage was through the roof relative to other Rangers (+14.15%). That's not a coincidence. Was this against lighter competition than other Rangers D faced? Sure. Did he over-perform in the situations he was used in? He sure did.

Believe me, I'm not sitting here hoping Nassib is under center or Raanta is in net.

I am hoping that McIlrath gets a chance to continue proving that he belongs in the lineup every night.

You are the one who said he was our best defenseman a lot of the time when he played. If the judge of who's the best is who made the least mistakes or who had the best corsi, it will a lot of the time be the player with the sheltered minutes and assignments.

I think McIlrath could be a fit on the bottom pairing for next season and could develop into a 4/5D, just not with this current defense. Girardi, Klein, McIlrath down the right side is way too immobile, don't pass the puck well enough and don't put up enough points. McIlrath is the easy player to trade, he's the least experienced, and he's the worst of the three, even though I know some of you will try to claim McIlrath is better than Girardi because you guys hate Girardi, but thats besides the point.

I'd actually like to trade Klein. I think his value is at its highest, I don't want us to re-sign him when he's a free agent, and I think he could bring back a top 4 PMD. I actually wouldn't be opposed to a right side of Girardi, player we traded Klein for, McIlrath in some order.

If we can't trade Klein though, a McIlrath trade wouldn't be such a bad idea.

 

[gorangers0525]

The Girardi hate is because he is awful at ice hockey, not because he is Girardi. It is not really possible to do worse, so even if Mcilrath ends up like Girardi, at least he'd be a lot cheaper ****** player.

 

[bernmeister]

I'll pass, they're not dealing Stepan after dealing Brassard.

The idea of doing so and not getting a capable 1st line center back in return is stupidity.

rare total disagree
we actually are IMO solid enough that if Martians kidnapped Stepan we would still be fine to roll with
Zib
Hayes
Miller
Jooris

my point remains, as I am on record
the rule, not the exception, is to trade for best return, regardless of position coming back, especially when the haul is futures including picks which are uber-flexibile.

I'd love to see Paul Postma utilized more in Winnipeg, but if that doesn't happen, he deserves better. This guy is one of the best skaters on our team, and he absolutely deserves more ice time. Can be lost in the d-zone sometimes. Every once in a while he gets a shot to play, man can he skate with the puck. I'd love to see what he could do with a steady partner and minutes. (RHD)

PP is not yet all that and a bag of chips, but he is solid enough and deserves mo better like you say.

lol those assets are garbage.

Disagree. The stupidity of AV to misuse them does not make them garbage.

Still haven't warmed up to the idea of Kreider + Tambellini for Shattenkirk, eh?

That's ok. If you're looking for a "bottom pairing PMD" (an oxymoron if I've ever heard one), the Blues still might be good partners.

Although they certainly wouldn't be looking to make such a deal--especially given that they're still likely to trade Shattenkirk--it probably wouldn't take much to get them to consider moving Butler or Gunnarson--both of whom are fantastic shot blockers and have a great outlet pass.

For that matter, while the Blues are still high on him, Bortuzzo would also be a movable asset that might appeal to you, if you want to add some toughness on the back end.

Regardless, the Blues have enviable depth on D, with or without Shattenkirk. That's a nice luxury to have, and they'll want value coming back, even for a bottom pairing defenseman.

There's absolutely no reason for the Rangers to give up a young and locked up asset in Kreider for Shattenkirk who is signed for 1 year when the Rangers realistically aren't Cup contenders with or without him this upcoming season. They're better off just waiting the year and seeing if they can get him for free if/when he hits UFA.

No on Kreider being moved if not massive overpayment
no reason to overpay for 3rd pair when a Ryan Murphy is very reasonably had.

You are the one who said he was our best defenseman a lot of the time when he played. If the judge of who's the best is who made the least mistakes or who had the best corsi, it will a lot of the time be the player with the sheltered minutes and assignments.

I think McIlrath could be a fit on the bottom pairing for next season and could develop into a 4/5D, just not with this current defense. Girardi, Klein, McIlrath down the right side is way too immobile, don't pass the puck well enough and don't put up enough points. McIlrath is the easy player to trade, he's the least experienced, and he's the worst of the three, even though I know some of you will try to claim McIlrath is better than Girardi because you guys hate Girardi, but thats besides the point.

I'd actually like to trade Klein. I think his value is at its highest, I don't want us to re-sign him when he's a free agent, and I think he could bring back a top 4 PMD. I actually wouldn't be opposed to a right side of Girardi, player we traded Klein for, McIlrath in some order.

If we can't trade Klein though, a McIlrath trade wouldn't be such a bad idea.

not trading McIlrath under ordinary circumstances.
he is our enforcer, and a good bet for unlocked potential, esp since AV underplayed/misued him

We will get a premium for Klein from EDM,
I see
Klein + Lindberg + Fast
for
Oiler 1st, Yakimov +Yakupov

 

[silverfish]

You are the one who said he was our best defenseman a lot of the time when he played. If the judge of who's the best is who made the least mistakes or who had the best corsi, it will a lot of the time be the player with the sheltered minutes and assignments.

I think McIlrath could be a fit on the bottom pairing for next season and could develop into a 4/5D, just not with this current defense. Girardi, Klein, McIlrath down the right side is way too immobile, don't pass the puck well enough and don't put up enough points. McIlrath is the easy player to trade, he's the least experienced, and he's the worst of the three, even though I know some of you will try to claim McIlrath is better than Girardi because you guys hate Girardi, but thats besides the point.

I'd actually like to trade Klein. I think his value is at its highest, I don't want us to re-sign him when he's a free agent, and I think he could bring back a top 4 PMD. I actually wouldn't be opposed to a right side of Girardi, player we traded Klein for, McIlrath in some order.

If we can't trade Klein though, a McIlrath trade wouldn't be such a bad idea.

I think exposing that you think listing those three d-men and not proclaiming Girardi the worst is a telling example of an evaluation process.

It can be argued quite sufficiently that Girardi was one of, if not the worst defenseman in the NHL last season.

 

[TGWL]

The Ducks do that and they get three very competitive and evenly distributed pairings (Run by Fowler, Lindholm and Vatanen). Vatanen has played mostly with Stoner whose the #6. While I don't agree, Vatanen was voted in the poll section as 47th best D in the league while being a third pairing PMD. Anyway, he does more than enough to help the team that's my point. Even with the higher cap hit, since if you run into injuries he can stunt on the first pairing against top lines without any drop in his level of play.

The Ducks aren't paying nearly 12 million to Staal and Girardi.