Rumor: Botchford - " Aqualini veto'd a Kesler trade to Pitt "

[DownGoesMcDavid]

According to Jason Botchford on tsn1040 this morning that he knows for a 100% fact that Gillis had an accepted offer to trade Kesler at the 2014 Trade Deadline to Pittsburgh but was ultimately Veto'd by Aqualini as the ownership did not want to embrace a rebuild. Gillis was of course fired a couple of months later.

It wasnt only until Kesler and his agent demanded a trade out of Vancouver on the summer of 2014 that forced Aqualini to give in and give the green light for new GM Benning to move Kesler...however Aqualini still wasnt up for a rebuild and instructed Benning and Linden to get roster players as a return.

Botchford did not give names on what the return would have been from Pitt for Kesler but alluded that the Canucks would be in a much much better position today had that trade gone through.

**Botchford specifically said that it wasn't for Derick Pouliot as Pitt considered him untouchable lol**

Looking at the 2014 Pens roster , I'm not sure who they would have offered for Kesler that would have been a home run return

It couldn't have been for Kasperi Kapanen because he wasnt drafted until that summer. Although that 1st rnd pick was surely offered to the Canucks.

- Matt Murray ?
- Olli Matta ?
- Brian Dumolin
- Scott Harrington
- Beau Bennet
- Brandon Suter . Lol

Non of these are home run picks


They had nice roster pieces but i doubt Pitt offers Letang or a then 25 yr old James Neal

I'm almost certain that the Pitt offer was a 1st rnd pick, multiple 2nds and a prospect.

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[Megaterio Llamas]

I don't doubt that this is true. Mr Aquilini has always been a very 'hands on' owner.

 

[DownGoesMcDavid]

I don't doubt that this is true. Mr Aquilini has always been a very 'hands on' owner.

It sounds like Gillis was fired for suggesting a rebuild/retool .

That and the playoff disappointments after 2011.

Then Aqua hires Benning but handcuffs him w. A demand on getting roster players back and not rebuilding. Playoff$$ playoff$$$playoff$$$

 

[Fatass]

I don't doubt that this is true. Mr Aquilini has always been a very 'hands on' owner.

I think Botchford is connecting the dots. We know Gillis was fired for wanting to rebuild. We know TL and JB were hired (both rookies who could be controlled by the owner) to retool around the old Sedin core.

 

[DownGoesMcDavid]

I think Botchford is connecting the dots. We know Gillis was fired for wanting to rebuild. We know TL and JB were hired (both rookies who could be controlled by the owner) to retool around the old Sedin core.

No hes not connecting dots or making guesses.

He was stating it as fact that he can confirm there was an accepted trade from Pitt for Kesler

 

[Fatass]

No hes not connecting dots or making guesses.

He was staying it as fact that he can confirm there was an accepted trade from Pitt for Kesler

You think Botchford has a source like Gillis?

 

[PetterssonSimp]

So instead of trading Ryan Kesler for Brandon Suckser in a trade of MUCH better player for Suckser, we only have to endure better player for Suckser.
Imho this is one of the few meddling times that actually helped Vancouver. Too bad it was worsened by an idiot GM who has zero Pro scouting ability.

 

[CRDragon]

Typical business decisions that are only short term sighted? Not surprised. The medium term effects are already seen from half a decade of being a bottom team. How does that reflect on the investment Aquilini?

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

It sounds like Gillis was fired for suggesting a rebuild/retool .

That and the playoff disappointments after 2011.

Then Aqua hires Benning but handcuffs him w. A demand on getting roster players back and not rebuilding. Playoff$$ playoff$$$playoff$$$

If you remember Gillis was making noises about taking full control of the club and probably replacing some senior alumni with competent people. He could see the writing on the wall I think and decided to do what needed to be done and let the chips fall where they may. And it didn't take Mr Aquilini long to pull the trigger.

 

[tantalum]

It sounds like Gillis was fired for suggesting a rebuild/retool .

That and the playoff disappointments after 2011.

Then Aqua hires Benning but handcuffs him w. A demand on getting roster players back and not rebuilding. Playoff$$ playoff$$$playoff$$$

A couple things...Gillis being fired for wanting to rebuold has essentially been known. It wasn't because of media or a fire Gillis chant (Aquilini has other ways to deal with unfavorable media...). Gillis in his last presser said something along the lines of "If I were to remain we will rebuild/retool" I'm paraphrasing but the if I were to remain part followed by being fired tells you all you need to know.

Benning...Aquilini didn't handcuff Benning on that trade. Benning got who he wanted. And even if he was handcuffed for a roster player there were better options than what he picked. Linden and Benning were hired specifically because they agreed with a plan of a team not needing a rebuild. It's group think from the owner on down. And it goes further, after Linden actually got a clue, educated himself by talking to people around the league and said they need to rebuild he was also forced out. Benning and his sidekick Weisbrod remain because they agreed with ownership that the team was "close". They can try to play the "rebuild" card all they like (including Frank) but to them it's just a word. The twitter excitement about things being like a playoff game, the reports of JimJohn strutting arrogantly around the league in December tells you that it was just a word to say. These are actions of people who think a rebuild is done not one that has just started.

That said, an owner with stupid expectations doesn't excuse the performance of Benning. First because Benning agrees with and accepted the expectations and second because no matter the expectations or strategy his performance is laughably bad.

 

[TruKnyte]

A couple things...Gillis being fired for wanting to rebuold has essentially been known. It wasn't because of media or a fire Gillis chant (Aquilini has other ways to deal with unfavorable media...). Gillis in his last presser said something along the lines of "If I were to remain we will rebuild/retool" I'm paraphrasing but the if I were to remain part followed by being fired tells you all you need to know.

Benning...Aquilini didn't handcuff Benning on that trade. Benning got who he wanted. And even if he was handcuffed for a roster player there were better options than what he picked. Linden and Benning were hired specifically because they agreed with a plan of a team not needing a rebuild. It's group think from the owner on down. And it goes further, after Linden actually got a clue, educated himself by talking to people around the league and said they need to rebuild he was also forced out. Benning and his sidekick Weisbrod remain because they agreed with ownership that the team was "close". They can try to play the "rebuild" card all they like (including Frank) but to them it's just a word. The twitter excitement about things being like a playoff game, the reports of JimJohn strutting arrogantly around the league in December tells you that it was just a word to say. These are actions of people who think a rebuild is done not one that has just started.

I wonder where this team would be if we were in the timeline where Gillis stayed and was allowed to rebuild.

 

[duplo]

This was reported at the time, here's a source:

"a proposed deal would send Kesler to the Penguins in exchange for center Brandon Sutter, two 2014 draft picks — likely a first- and third-round — and the Canucks’ choice of defensemen Simon Despres or Brian Dumoulin, the sources said."

Penguins identify Canucks’ Kesler as top trade target | TribLIVE.com

That 1st round pick became Kapanen, but I imagine the Canucks still pick McCann there.

 

[DownGoesMcDavid]

So instead of trading Ryan Kesler for Brandon Suckser in a trade of MUCH better player for Suckser, we only have to endure better player for Suckser.
Imho this is one of the few meddling times that actually helped Vancouver. Too bad it was worsened by an idiot GM who has zero Pro scouting ability.

This post confuses me.

I think the offer for Kesler was something like

Sutter , 2014 1st , 2014 2nd , 2015 2nd.

The 2014 1st is not really an upgrade tho because we ended up getting a 1st from Anahein too and around the same range 24th pick overall

I think the two 2nds would have been great. 2014 2nd picks includes Montour Donato ..

2015 2nd rnd picks included- sebastian aho, carlo,

 

[tantalum]

I wonder where this team would be if we were in the timeline where Gillis stayed and was allowed to rebuild.

He would have actually been able to execute a quick retool. That was available to the club. They had assets to move and cap space going into that summer. He was quite vocal about needing a blue chip type prospect back for whatever goalie was going to get moved. He achieved that. He was looking at other more futures type deals. He was making the scouting changes...several of which this regime is benefiting from. He's also capable of learning from his mistakes.

 

[PetterssonSimp]

This post confuses me.

I think the offer for Kesler was something like

Sutter , 2014 1st , 2014 2nd , 2015 2nd.

The 2014 1st is not really an upgrade tho because we ended up getting a 1st from Anahein too and around the same range 24th pick overall

I think the two 2nds would have been great. 2014 2nd picks includes Montour Donato ..

2015 2nd rnd picks included- sebastian aho, carlo,

Knowing Dim Jim, he’d have traded those 2nds for more Linden Vey’s. That’s the biggest problem with Benning and his draft record, he has almost no real 2nd round amazing picks. A meh goalie Demko, and a pair of winger prospects having a trouble adjusting to pro hockey is a far cry from even Rasmus Andersson (Bae trade) let alone finding a Weber/Subban/Debrincat type of value.

 

[DownGoesMcDavid]

Knowing Dim Jim, he’d have traded those 2nds for more Linden Vey’s. That’s the biggest problem with Benning and his draft record, he has almost no real 2nd round amazing picks. A meh goalie Demko, and a pair of winger prospects having a trouble adjusting to pro hockey is a far cry from even Rasmus Andersson (Bae trade) let alone finding a Weber/Subban/Debrincat type of value.

Jett woo

 

[StreetHawk]

It sounds like Gillis was fired for suggesting a rebuild/retool .

That and the playoff disappointments after 2011.

Then Aqua hires Benning but handcuffs him w. A demand on getting roster players back and not rebuilding. Playoff$$ playoff$$$playoff$$$

Gillis was likely fired because his assessment of the team changed between 2012 to 2013 following the sweep by the Sharks. Considering the roster and contracts at the end of 2012 the team was still capable of contending. But after 2013 the team as it stood needed changes. AV needed to go but Gillis needed to move out a core piece or two to give the team one final shot on the sedins final year of their contract. That’s one point I question when he said in his tsn interview that ntc would not be an issue. If that was really the case then wouldn’t the compromise be to move out a Kesler, bieksa, Hamhuis, Edler, burrows or two as a hockey trade? That Pitt deal was for futures. Unless Gillis was going to turn around and flip that for current help.

 

[tantalum]

Jett woo

That's the other problem with what LeBrun said...he specifically says the last couple of drafts. Well that's Pettersson and some other promising players. But they haven't had a chance to bust yet.

 

[Pure West]

There may be something to the rumour that Gillis was shutdown by Aquilini because they planned on firing him, since they did the second the team was officially eliminated from the playoffs. What the deal was? Who knows. It could have been for Sutter and Pouliot for all we know. Either way, its doubtful that it would be for anything game changing.

 

[tantalum]

Note that this pattern of behavior from ownership goes back to Nonis. Nonis, while not a good GM because he simply wouldn't make moves despite correctly identifying club needs, was fired specifically because he didn't sell the farm to get Richards and try to make the playoffs. In that regard I'm happy Nonis at least had a backbone that deadline day. Now he should have been fired becasue he wasn't good but I don't think "not being a good GM" was the reason. The reason was he defied ownerships stupid trade demand.

Given the stupidity of ownership it makes it that much more important to have a competent GM in place. I could live with a GM who holds the same view as ownership provided they know how to negotiate contracts and manage assets. At least that guy isn't crippling the team moving forward.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

@tantalum Yes. I'll always respect Dave Nonis for taking the bullet rather than making a bad deal to save his job. Gillis was good at playing Aquilini's game for a while, but in the end he made a stand (and took the bullet).

 

[pgj98m3]

There may be something to the rumour that Gillis was shutdown by Aquilini because they planned on firing him, since they did the second the team was officially eliminated from the playoffs. What the deal was? Who knows. It could have been for Sutter and Pouliot for all we know. Either way, its doubtful that it would be for anything game changing.

Cause Gillis never made any good trades

 

[tantalum]

@tantalum Yes. I'll always respect Dave Nonis for taking the bullet rather than making a bad deal to save his job. Gillis was good at playing Aquilini's game for a while, but in the end he made a stand (and took the bullet).

As did Linden (even though he was also terrible at his job)...

 

[tantalum]

There may be something to the rumour that Gillis was shutdown by Aquilini because they planned on firing him, since they did the second the team was officially eliminated from the playoffs. What the deal was? Who knows. It could have been for Sutter and Pouliot for all we know. Either way, its doubtful that it would be for anything game changing.

It would have been game changing. maybe not the return but what the return would signal: a proper direction for the team.

 

[DownGoesMcDavid]

It's not going to matter who the GM is of this team. Aqualini wont hire anyone that doesnt have the same view as him.

Aqualini will also evidently not allow GMs to have full autonomy of trades and signings without having the power to Veto.

Why would any respected GM want to work under those conditions.

The reputation is out with Aqualini.
So blame Benning all we want but it wont be any different with the next guy.

Aqualini needs to change or sell the team.