Post-Game Talk: Boston Bruins at New York Rangers 2/7/18

[chosen]

Maybe it's different in a football lockerroom...don't know, but a cancerous situation can make a good team turn on each other in a hurry. When you don't know if your teammate completely has your back, it's not a good environment, regardless of talent level.

I've also been part of teams that had less overall talent, but everyone on the team generally liked each other that were much more successful.

I agree when it comes to a cancerous player in the locker room, but that is not the case here.

By far the biggest problem with the Rangers is the lack of personnel, no matter how many other excuses people can dream up.

All this chatter about lack of pride and effort is silly. Which players exactly are people willing to say play without heart and pride?

 

[chosen]

Leadership was the only thing left Girardi was providing in his role, but he clearly was the guy leading the defense and promoting buy-in on the coach’s plan. Stepan was a guy like that too. Our execution level is more than just correlated with those guys leaving.

Also, you don’t get maximum effort without chemistry. You can’t easily break these things down into component parts and evaluate each individually.

Where does this notion that Girardi was leading the defense come from?

 

[Beer League Sniper]

I agree when it comes to a cancerous player in the locker room, but that is not the case here.

By far the biggest problem with the Rangers is the lack of personnel, no matter how many other excuses people can dream up.

All this chatter about lack of pride and effort is silly. Which players exactly are people willing to say play without heart and pride?

Teams decimated by injuries tighten up their defensive structure and don't get blown out like we have been.

We may not have the talent on the roster to consistently win games right now, but maybe, just maybe, if we gave the best goaltender of this generation a little help in the defensive zone, he might be able to steal some 2-1 wins for us.

What's happening right now is totally demoralizing, and much of that is on the coach for refusing to change his philosophy to fit changing circumstances. That was the knock on AV in Vancouver, and it's been an issue his entire time here. He won't make adjustments, in-game or otherwise.

 

[chosen]

Teams decimated by injuries tighten up their defensive structure and don't get blown out like we have been.

We may not have the talent on the roster to consistently win games right now, but maybe, just maybe, if we gave the best goaltender of this generation a little help in the defensive zone, he might be able to steal some 2-1 wins for us.

What's happening right now is totally demoralizing, and much of that is on the coach for refusing to change his philosophy to fit changing circumstances. That was the knock on AV in Vancouver, and it's been an issue his entire time here. He won't make adjustments, in-game or otherwise.

Blaming the coach for not adjusting is fair, but no coach ever could make this current team a contender.

 

[silverfish]

Overheard on 5th ave this morning walking to work:

"Oh, hey, what the f*** is wrong with the Rangers?"

Buddy, how much time do you have?

 

[LORDE]

I wouldn't pay 500 bucks to watch a scf game in msg leave alone a regular season meaningless game. I pay for nhl center ice year after year and will continue to do so...granted I live in Atlanta but this woudlnt change if I lived across the street from the stadium. Hockey is too expensive to see in person...I miss the thrashers...is see the rangers twice a year and it would cost me 20 bucks....total.

I didn’t want my sister’s 1st pro hockey game to be viewed from the nose bleeds... she had a blast so the $ was worth it IMO but the uninspired play and blown coverages that had become this team’s calling card well BEFORE the injuries left a lot to be desired for me.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Trap and counter
With injuries and the current personnel issues, I really don't see how they can play any other way right now.

It's the obvious thing to do.
I just don't get why this charade is allowed to continue..

Because AV's system is ass and he doesn't adjust. Glad you're finally catching on to what I was saying last night though, gramps!

 

[NYRKindms]

AV was the antithesis of Torts. One is all offense, and the other is all defense. AV taught offense to a defensive minded team and they went to the cup finals. AV then neglected to realize that defense is a thing and we slowly forgot how to do it.

Personally I just think it is AV system. He wants to play man to man in D zone. Well sure on paper thats a great D. But just like in every sport, playing man to man is the much harder option and requires the personnel who can do it. If you have a squad who can play that way, you will dominate but the # of players capable of doing it night in and night out are few and hard to come by in a cap restricted league.

Guys have played under this system for a while and they are still making mistakes. Perhaps because they are subbing in guys new to it, but ultimately they cant make it work. The defense on this team was only an issue as it related to the coaches system. Girardi and the other folks who have come and gone would have had a few more seasons in them playing zone. The coach wants people to play his system when he doesn't have the horses to do it. AV had a much much more talented group in Vancouver for a longer stint and couldn't get those guys over the hump either. His system fails in the playoffs because he doesn't have way to adjust it.

 

[smoneil]

For me, it ended up being myself watching and knowing what the result would be. Nobody who cheers for any team, and puts a ton of their time into following them, starts out with a cynical view. I always waited for next season. I believed in next season. During those times when the Rangers org signed and paid players for what they had done and would not even sniff such accomplishments again, I always figured that sooner or later all the pieces would come together. I mean, how could Bobby Holik not be instantly even better than he was? How could his greatness not spread throughout the Rangers? Good lord, he is now with the New York Rangers!!
Ha. Money doesn't make players better. Not a slight against Holik at all, more a damning damnation against the stupid Rangers front office led by Sather. Bunch of arrogant, incompetent assessors of talent and team building.
There's the rub.
Thank God the Cap came.

Yup, and that's why they kept buying. Those teams SHOULD have been good. They just didn't give AF. I remember the year they signed Keane and Skrudland, hoping that two former captains could collectively find a pulse on that roster. It just never worked, and we never really had many young players to get excited about. I think that's why it hurt so bad when Lundmark and Brendl busted. They represented hope for what felt like forever.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Overheard on 5th ave this morning walking to work:

"Oh, hey, what the **** is wrong with the Rangers?"

Buddy, how much time do you have?

Lol.

I do have a question though. I feel like you are vehemently against any sort of tear down or big sell off at the deadline. Most posts I have looked at give me that impression.

If you believe that much is indeed wrong with the Rangers, but you are also against tearing things down or even being big sellers at the deadline, how do you suppose we fix things?

 

[Tawnos]

Where does this notion that Girardi was leading the defense come from?

The letter on his jersey
Watching the interactions between players during games
Reading about the team
Hearing the announcers talk about players
Comparing execution level between now and when he was here

If you don’t think that was the case, you aren’t paying attention to the things like group dynamics. Which is perfectly fine, but I don’t see how if you are paying attention to those things, theres any other conclusion to make.

 

[NCRanger]

Yup, and that's why they kept buying. Those teams SHOULD have been good. They just didn't give AF. I remember the year they signed Keane and Skrudland, hoping that two former captains could collectively find a pulse on that roster. It just never worked, and we never really had many young players to get excited about. I think that's why it hurt so bad when Lundmark and Brendl busted. They represented hope for what felt like forever.

Except Keane and Skrudland were signed as Neil Smith's Plan C the year (1997-98) after Messier-Gretzky-Leetch go them to the ECF.

Remember, Messier left over a contract dispute, then Smith swung for the fences with Sakic. When that failed, he tried a new direction with "defensive players" in Keane and Skrudland.

Nobody was thinking that it was the start of 7 years of playoff misses. Smith was trying anything he could do get the team back to the Finals. That meant gutting the farm.

The Brendl-Lundmark draft was hope, but that's all it was. The whole franchise direction was fundamentally flawed thanks to Neil Smith. Sather did what he thought was the right thing in at least trying to ice a strong lineup to compete, but continued to let the farm rot. The problem was, he painted himself into a corner, where it was either fall apart in epic failure, or continue down the path of buying their way out of it.

 

[Idlerlee]

The team trashed everyone? When? They were a midling "meh" team before the injuries.

Sorry. You are what your record says you are.

This is patently false. The team really struggled to get it together at the start of the season. They were within 1-2 points of top of Metro when Kreider was injured. Its been going downhill with more and more injuries since.

But that's the problem. There is no fallback. If any single player is out, the whole house of cards fall flat. The team never replaced Stepan, Miller was supposed to but he's failed at that. The team decided to try Cythil, that failed.

We've been filling the bottom 6 and our top6 with AHL players and roster players who can't play the position they are in. We went from being a deep team, to being a team that can't deal with a single injury.

The injuries have made this team a huge mess. And everyone are suffering for it, especially the players who can't find consistency.

 

[silverfish]

Lol.

I do have a question though. I feel like you are vehemently against any sort of tear down or big sell off at the deadline. Most posts I have looked at give me that impression.

If you believe that much is indeed wrong with the Rangers, but you are also against tearing things down or even being big sellers at the deadline, how do you suppose we fix things?

A few months ago, I was opposed to a tear down because I felt the problem could've been addressed by two or three smart moves, assuming AV was shit canned.

AV is still here. This causes more area of concern for me because now it gives me doubts about Gorton in general, more than I already had. Couple that with things like the McLeod claim, and, well, I lose even more faith.

At this point, what I want is AV to be shit-canned. I want Gorton to sell of the upcoming UFAs for best offer available. Depending on how the deadline goes, I may or may want Gorton fired before the draft. Then I'd want the new GM to come in, whoever that may be, f*** if I know, and re-evaluate guys like McDonagh and Zuccarello within a new system that isn't complete ass.

There are pieces on this team capable of building a good hockey team. There are also pieces on this team whose trade-value might overshadow their on-ice impacts, I'd look to deal those guys now or in the off-season (mainly Miller and Vesey).

If you asked me three months ago, I'd have told you to can AV, & trade Miller for a 1RD.

 

[Nopuckluck]

Here we go

 

[NYR]

Because AV's system is ass and he doesn't adjust. Glad you're finally catching on to what I was saying last night though, gramps!

Yeah..I blame it all on the bourbon.
That's..Post buzzed, edit sober LOL

 

[smoneil]

Except Keane and Skrudland were signed as Neil Smith's Plan C the year (1997-98) after Messier-Gretzky-Leetch go them to the ECF.

Remember, Messier left over a contract dispute, then Smith swung for the fences with Sakic. When that failed, he tried a new direction with "defensive players" in Keane and Skrudland.

Nobody was thinking that it was the start of 7 years of playoff misses. Smith was trying anything he could do get the team back to the Finals. That meant gutting the farm.

The Brendl-Lundmark draft was hope, but that's all it was. The whole franchise direction was fundamentally flawed thanks to Neil Smith. Sather did what he thought was the right thing in at least trying to ice a strong lineup to compete, but continued to let the farm rot. The problem was, he painted himself into a corner, where it was either fall apart in epic failure, or continue down the path of buying their way out of it.

Good call on the bold. I was a teenager then, so my timeline was likely distracted by booze and puberty, haha. My main takeaways from the mid-late 90s are:

1- Hearing OVER and OVER again how Keane and Skrudland were both former captains.
2- Being insanely pissed off that the team traded Savard.
3- Thinking--every offseason--that THIS will be the year that Brendl and Lundmark will save us.

 

[trilobyte]

Marchand and Pasternak are not elite!?

I have seen Kreider called elite here and he's not at their level.

Yes, I guess what you state is true. I always thought of Marchand as a more skilled player than he was generally being credited for, but with his PPG+ stature from last season onward he is top drawer.
Pastrnak is as well, kept getting better, and rapidly.

 

[yrrebbor]

Turned it off after goal 4.

 

[Megustaelhockey]

Overheard on 5th ave this morning walking to work:

"Oh, hey, what the **** is wrong with the Rangers?"

Buddy, how much time do you have?

"Almost everything."

 

[chosen]

The letter on his jersey
Watching the interactions between players during games
Reading about the team
Hearing the announcers talk about players
Comparing execution level between now and when he was here

If you don’t think that was the case, you aren’t paying attention to the things like group dynamics. Which is perfectly fine, but I don’t see how if you are paying attention to those things, theres any other conclusion to make.

So, McDonagh is now the team leader because of his letter? Can't trade him. Right?

What interactions? You saw Girardi as an on-ice leader last year?

Our execution level is worse now than when Girardi was here because of Girardi?

Are we talking about the same Girardi? Are you referring to the guy who was arguably the worst player on the team last year?

That Dan Girardi has morphed from horror show to asset to you in retrospect does not paint me as the one failing to pay attention.

Assigning cause and effect arbitrarily is ridiculous.

 

[NCRanger]

Good call on the bold. I was a teenager then, so my timeline was likely distracted by booze and puberty, haha. My main takeaways from the mid-late 90s are:

1- Hearing OVER and OVER again how Keane and Skrudland were both former captains.
2- Being insanely pissed off that the team traded Savard.
3- Thinking--every offseason--that THIS will be the year that Brendl and Lundmark will save us.

The 1997-98 season was the year I had a serious girlfriend and moved to Charlotte (first time). Remember that season for what you said about "former captains" and once the kinks are smoothed out, things will be fine. Team hovered around .500 all year, never far enough out to change things, never far enough in to think it was ok. It all fell apart in March.

A few years later, I had moved to Raleigh, and had season tickets to the Hurricanes. Hurricanes were atrociously bad in 2002-03, actually after getting off to a great start. They won like 7 games after Christmas bad. Anyway, I'm at a game with two of my (girl)friends who I knew through hockey, after the Hurricanes somehow signed Brendl. We're down watching warmups and one of them says, "(My Name), that's why your Rangers suck, look at the size of #55's ass! It needs its own zip code!"

 

[RangerLifer]

Teams decimated by injuries tighten up their defensive structure and don't get blown out like we have been.

We may not have the talent on the roster to consistently win games right now, but maybe, just maybe, if we gave the best goaltender of this generation a little help in the defensive zone, he might be able to steal some 2-1 wins for us.

What's happening right now is totally demoralizing, and much of that is on the coach for refusing to change his philosophy to fit changing circumstances. That was the knock on AV in Vancouver, and it's been an issue his entire time here. He won't make adjustments, in-game or otherwise.

THIS!! One thousand times this!!

 

[Tawnos]

So, McDonagh is now the team leader because of his letter? Can't trade him. Right?

What interactions? You saw Girardi as an on-ice leader last year?

Our execution level is worse now than when Girardi was here because of Girardi?

Are we talking about the same Girardi? Are you referring to the guy who was arguably the worst player on the team last year?

That Dan Girardi has morphed from horror show to asset to you in retrospect does not paint me as the one failing to pay attention.

Assigning cause and effect arbitrarily is ridiculous.

Girardi’s play literally has nothing to do with what I just said.

Players aren’t leaders because of their letters. They’re given letters because they are leaders.

I never thought Girardi was as bad as a lot of the people around here, but I did think he developed into a liability as a first pairing player in this system and at his cap hit. Again, this is about the leader he was, on the Rangers not the player he was on the Rangers.

I don’t understand the couplet of “What interactions? You saw Girardi as an on-ice leader last year?” One question is about when play is stopped. The other question is about when the play is going on.

There’s much more to making a team successful than just going out there and playing the game to the best of your ability.

There’s nothing arbitrary about my opinion.

 

[True Blue]

Teams decimated by injuries tighten up their defensive structure and don't get blown out like we have been.

We may not have the talent on the roster to consistently win games right now, but maybe, just maybe, if we gave the best goaltender of this generation a little help in the defensive zone, he might be able to steal some 2-1 wins for us.

What's happening right now is totally demoralizing, and much of that is on the coach for refusing to change his philosophy to fit changing circumstances. That was the knock on AV in Vancouver, and it's been an issue his entire time here. He won't make adjustments, in-game or otherwise.

We have a winner! On all counts