Bossy vs. Brett Hull

[Staniowski]

Sure, that's why he led the league in goals FIVE TIMES (as much as Bossy and Hull combined) and had FOUR 70+ goal seasons. You mean there is no way you can NOT justify Gretzky as one of the top THREE best goalscorers ever. I don't care if he had zero "talents as a goalscorer (whatever the hell that means). He scored. An order of magnitude more than anybody else.

Good Gawd...

I thinkthat, during Gretzky's prime, Bossy, Makarov, Krutov, Lemieux, and Hull were better goal-scorers, and the best in hockey. I'd say Makarov was the least of the five, and the only one that would be debatable.

I'm basing my opinion on watching them play.

Gretzky's five goal-scoring titles, for the most part, weren't competing against these players.

Gretzky shared the ice with all of these players, and he never looked like he could score goals as well as them.

I actually really like some of Gretzky's goal-scoring abilities, especially his taking full advantage of defensive weakness; his confidence to walk in and rip slapshots from the slot; and especially his bad-angle shots, which he did better than anybody at the time.

But, still, his goal-scoring talents were more limited than the greatest goal-scorers, and that's the main reason why he had relatively poor longevity as a goal-scorer.

 

[Staniowski]

The only people I would put definitively above Gretzky are Lemieux, Bossy and of course Bobby Hull.

Scoring 92, 87...ect goals in a season somehow isn't good enough for the top 10?

I don't think he's even in the conversation for top-10. His goal-scoring was too era-dependent. In some (weak defensive) eras, he could score a lot; in other eras, he couldn't.

 

[MadLuke]

I doubt it’s any more than a handful of people. 99% of the hockey world never puts him in the top 10

It is probably from people that can end up having 18-25 different players they will have called top 10 at some point, more of an expression than an actual list.

 

[Gorskyontario]

I don't think he's even in the conversation for top-10. His goal-scoring was too era-dependent. In some (weak defensive) eras, he could score a lot; in other eras, he couldn't.

Sorry, I know I haven't said this in a while. This makes less than zero sense.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Sorry, I know I haven't said this in a while. This makes less than zero sense.

It's hard to argue with you if you don't back it up with supporting arguments.

Whether you agree with them or not, @Staniowski at least said why they feel that way. Responding with an insult (and yes, without supporting evidence, what you wrote is an insult) is a disservice to the forum.

 

[MadLuke]

Controversial but not necessarily crazy at all, the reason are well said and obviously make sense so they can be debated, if we exclude the lower game played a la Bure, Bossy, if we just look at the people that scored a giant amount of goals, Soviets best goalscorer are not there:

Maurice Richard.......... 0.99
Alex Ovechkin............ 0.96
Mario Lemieux............ 0.90
Bobby Hull............... 0.88
Brett Hull............... 0.77
Gordie Howe.............. 0.76
Jean Beliveau............ 0.73
Phil Esposito............ 0.71
Teemu Selanne............ 0.69
Wayne Gretzky............ 0.68
Jaromir Jagr............. 0.66
Joe Sakic................ 0.63
Jarome Iginla............ 0.62
Luc Robitaille........... 0.61
Mats Sundin.............. 0.61
Brendan Shanahan......... 0.60
Marcel Dionne............ 0.60
Steve Yzerman............ 0.57
Patrick Marleau.......... 0.49
Mark Messier............. 0.48

 

[Sentinel]

I thinkthat, during Gretzky's prime, Bossy, Makarov, Krutov, Lemieux, and Hull were better goal-scorers, and the best in hockey. I'd say Makarov was the least of the five, and the only one that would be debatable.

I'm basing my opinion on watching them play.

Gretzky's five goal-scoring titles, for the most part, weren't competing against these players.

Gretzky shared the ice with all of these players, and he never looked like he could score goals as well as them.

And I am basing it on facts. Nobody else ever scored 90 goals and nobody ever scored 70 goals four times. I don’t care if Gretzky had the weakest shot (he didn't) or was a terrible skater (he wasn't), or whatever. He did what he did. And he sure AF did it better than Bossy, year after year. I mean: what part of "better in 6 of 8" is not clear to you?

There is no doubt in my mind that if Gretzky wanted to transfer some of his 120+ assists to the "G" column, he would have crushed it again and again. But it doesn't matter: he did what he did and Bossy didn't do what Gretzky did.

Krutov and Makarov are hard to gauge but they never came close to leading NHL in goals. I rank Makarov in the Top20 because of his insane 9 straight point leads in the Soviet Elite League and being second to Gretzky in every international tournament. But I wouldn't put him or Krutov in the top 10 for goals. There is simply no evidence of that.

 

[Sentinel]

Controversial but not necessarily crazy at all, the reason are well said and obviously make sense so they can be debated, if we exclude the lower game played a la Bure, Bossy, if we just look at the people that scored a giant amount of goals, Soviets best goalscorer are not there:

Maurice Richard.......... 0.99
Alex Ovechkin............ 0.96
Mario Lemieux............ 0.90
Bobby Hull............... 0.88
Brett Hull............... 0.77
Gordie Howe.............. 0.76
Jean Beliveau............ 0.73
Phil Esposito............ 0.71
Teemu Selanne............ 0.69
Wayne Gretzky............ 0.68
Jaromir Jagr............. 0.66
Joe Sakic................ 0.63
Jarome Iginla............ 0.62
Luc Robitaille........... 0.61
Mats Sundin.............. 0.61
Brendan Shanahan......... 0.60
Marcel Dionne............ 0.60
Steve Yzerman............ 0.57
Patrick Marleau.......... 0.49
Mark Messier............. 0.48

Sorry, what is this a table of?

 

[MadLuke]

Sorry, what is this a table of?

Adjusted (using average elite Canadian goalscorer every season) goal per game during a player career.