Boro/Gryba?

[stempniaksen]

We had 8 NHL defenceman last season, no one was called up. I don't view a guy like Claesson any less just because he didn't get a cup of coffee at the NHL level this year. It just ended up being a tough situation for a young defenceman trying to break into the NHL. It's also the same management who spent a draft pick on him, and brought him to countless rookie camps because they saw something in him.

I'm not annointing him the second coming, but considering people here still harp about SDC all the time you'd think one of the best defenceman in the AHL would get a bit of love.

 

[BigBush*]

Wideman is basically the same size as Hoffman except on defense

actually he weighs the same as karlsson and is two inches shorter

wow, yikes. thanks for the comparisons. I dont put a ton of importance on size, but certainly more so on defense. It takes an extremely rare breed of defenseman to make it at 5'10 180lbs.

We had 8 NHL defenceman last season, no one was called up. I don't view a guy like Claesson any less just because he didn't get a cup of coffee at the NHL level this year. It just ended up being a tough situation for a young defenceman trying to break into the NHL. It's also the same management who spent a draft pick on him, and brought him to countless rookie camps because they saw something in him.

I'm not annointing him the second coming, but considering people here still harp about SDC all the time you'd think one of the best defenceman in the AHL would get a bit of love.

For the record, I really hope we re-sign Wideman to a 2 year deal. I can actually see Wideman doing it, since he's next on the depth chart for RD's. I could really see him signing if Cowen is moved.

 

[Mr Invidious]

If we're worrying about losing Gryba because of his penalty killing ability (not good at it anyways) then we have way bigger problems.

Seriously. He's gotten as many minutes as he has on the PK because who else were we going to play there?

Ride EK for another 5 minutes per game? Methot is better. Wiercioch isn't that type of player. Borowiecki is better. Hell, Ceci could probably be better.

It shouldn't be very difficult to find another defensive defenseman better than Gryba. He needs to go.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

If we're worrying about losing Gryba because of his penalty killing ability (not good at it anyways) then we have way bigger problems.

Seriously. He's gotten as many minutes as he has on the PK because who else were we going to play there?

Ride EK for another 5 minutes per game? Methot is better. Wiercioch isn't that type of player. Borowiecki is better. Hell, Ceci could probably be better.

It shouldn't be very difficult to find another defensive defenseman better than Gryba. He needs to go.

The current pk pairing are

Boro-Gryba
Methot-Ceci


No? Its been shown karlsson starts to decline the more he plays in a game. Im guessing you'd have to convert some offensive time for karl to defensive time

Gryba was number 1 pker on the best playoff pk and the 11th best regualar season pk.


Personally i'd love to get rid of Gryba but we have to know one of Karlsson or Wideman. or Wier can pk

Wideman isnt as aggressive at rushing the puck as say karlsson or T.J Brennan

 

[BigBush*]

Boro-Gryba are good on the PK. They both are good at PKing, its a big reason they've earned contracts in the NHL. That definitely helps the team out.

Having a good PK somewhat offsets our bad PP.

I definitely don't want Karlsson killing too many penalties. Hes not really good at it, but not really bad at it. Just FAR more useful 5 vs 5

 

[Mr Invidious]

The current pk pairing are

Boro-Gryba
Methot-Ceci


No? Its been shown karlsson starts to decline the more he plays in a game. Im guessing you'd have to convert some offensive time for karl to defensive time

Gryba was number 1 pker on the best playoff pk and the 11th best regualar season pk.


Personally i'd love to get rid of Gryba but we have to know one of Karlsson or Wideman. or Wier can pk

Wideman isnt as aggressive at rushing the puck as say karlsson or T.J Brennan

My point being that Gryba played so much on the PK because we have no one else to put there. Karlsson cannot afford to play more minutes on the PK when he's already doing everything else.

We're severely over-valuing his importance if you're going to use a six-game sample size for an entire team against one of the playoff's worst powerplays to show how one player is good at penalty killing. That's pretty silly.

He's an average penalty killer at best. You could sign any prototypical 3rd pairing defenseman and get the same results, if not better, on the PK. He's not physical. He's not smart. He can't skate very well.

We don't need to make Karlsson play more time on the PK and we don't need to try and turn Wiercioch into something that he's not. It has been clear to me for a while now that this blueline needs an injection from an external source. Whether that means trading for another defenseman or signing one, those are our options if we want to get better. If this team wants to get better and compete with the best teams in the NHL, Gryba is a problem. Not a solution.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

My point being that Gryba played so much on the PK because we have no one else to put there. Karlsson cannot afford to play more minutes on the PK when he's already doing everything else.

We're severely over-valuing his importance if you're going to use a six-game sample size for an entire team against one of the playoff's worst powerplays to show how one player is good at penalty killing. That's pretty silly.

He's an average penalty killer at best. You could sign any prototypical 3rd pairing defenseman and get the same results, if not better, on the PK. He's not physical. He's not smart. He can't skate very well.

We don't need to make Karlsson play more time on the PK and we don't need to try and turn Wiercioch into something that he's not. It has been clear to me for a while now that this blueline needs an injection from an external source. Whether that means trading for another defenseman or signing one, those are our options if we want to get better. If this team wants to get better and compete with the best teams in the NHL, Gryba is a problem. Not a solution.

Sure agree. He's not that good at all. I dont think he makes a lot of teams top 6 dmen outside ottawa.

 

[BigBush*]

My point being that Gryba played so much on the PK because we have no one else to put there. Karlsson cannot afford to play more minutes on the PK when he's already doing everything else.

We're severely over-valuing his importance if you're going to use a six-game sample size for an entire team against one of the playoff's worst powerplays to show how one player is good at penalty killing. That's pretty silly.

He's an average penalty killer at best. You could sign any prototypical 3rd pairing defenseman and get the same results, if not better, on the PK. He's not physical. He's not smart. He can't skate very well.

We don't need to make Karlsson play more time on the PK and we don't need to try and turn Wiercioch into something that he's not. It has been clear to me for a while now that this blueline needs an injection from an external source. Whether that means trading for another defenseman or signing one, those are our options if we want to get better. If this team wants to get better and compete with the best teams in the NHL, Gryba is a problem. Not a solution.

Ya, i agree with this post for sure.


I'd say Gryba is pretty good on the PK though. If you really watch the guy, he constantly hits and cross checks guys in front of the net, he DEFINITELY makes life difficult. Not just on the PK, but in general.

He hits and is physical. He has also crushed and has injured some players on other teams. Intimidation is good.

but 5 v 5 hes not that great. An upgrade should happen at some point

 

[WhiteLight*]

Ya, i agree with this post for sure.


I'd say Gryba is pretty good on the PK though. If you really watch the guy, he constantly hits and cross checks guys in front of the net, he DEFINITELY makes life difficult. Not just on the PK, but in general.

He hits and is physical. He has also crushed and has injured some players on other teams. Intimidation is good.

but 5 v 5 hes not that great. An upgrade should happen at some point

Gryba's fine. He's an NHLer. Would be great in a place like LA. But, I think he needs a specific kind of partner to thrive. Someone who can skate. Boro-Gryba was OK, but need more than OK.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Gryba's fine. He's an NHLer. Would be great in a place like LA. But, I think he needs a specific kind of partner to thrive. Someone who can skate. Boro-Gryba was OK, but need more than OK.

We need more than ok imo because our 2nd pairing is also just ok so it just amplifies the fact that we don't have enough past Meth and Karl. If we had a true solid 2nd pairing, I think Boro-Gryba would look ok at 10-15 mins a game.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

We need more than ok imo because our 2nd pairing is also just ok so it just amplifies the fact that we don't have enough past Meth and Karl. If we had a true solid 2nd pairing, I think Boro-Gryba would look ok at 10-15 mins a game.

This. Even Ceci isnt exactly the best fit for the 2nd pairing.

 

[Mr Invidious]

We need more than ok imo because our 2nd pairing is also just ok so it just amplifies the fact that we don't have enough past Meth and Karl. If we had a true solid 2nd pairing, I think Boro-Gryba would look ok at 10-15 mins a game.

Which is why, more or less, one of (if not both) Gryba and Boro need to leave the line-up for good, IMO.

I would much rather dress Wiercioch or Ceci over either of them and we need to upgrade our second pairing.

Methot - Karlsson
??? - ???
Wiercioch - Ceci

I would be perfectly okay moving Wiercioch up to that 2nd pairing and slotting Jared Cowen in on the third pairing. Shelter Cowen and Ceci a bit if necessary until their games round out.

 

[BigBush*]

Which is why, more or less, one of (if not both) Gryba and Boro need to leave the line-up for good, IMO.

I would much rather dress Wiercioch or Ceci over either of them and we need to upgrade our second pairing.

Methot - Karlsson
??? - ???
Wiercioch - Ceci

I would be perfectly okay moving Wiercioch up to that 2nd pairing and slotting Jared Cowen in on the third pairing. Shelter Cowen and Ceci a bit if necessary until their games round out.

I think you are really underrating Boro. For a guy who's a rookie and has a 1 mill cap hit, he had a fantastic season.

 

[Mr Invidious]

I think you are really underrating Boro. For a guy who's a rookie and has a 1 mill cap hit, he had a fantastic season.

Borowiecki is fine and I would not mind having him on the bottom pairing. But when I look at our current roster and see that we need to add a body from either free agency or from another team to upgrade our 2nd pairing, I see Wiercioch and Ceci as more suitable options.

Obviously, if Cowen continues to falter moving forward, I would suggest letting Borowiecki round out the bottom-pairing. But I also think that Claesson is going to be a pretty good NHL defenseman soon and we'll be pushing another body out.

I don't have a lot against Borowiecki. I really admire his will and the obvious effort he puts into each shift. He's just not incredibly gifted technically. Pretty poor puck skills. Not the highest on-ice IQ. My biggest complaint with Boro is that he needs to play with more discipline. I love that he's willing to throw his body around and play physically but he takes a lot of not-so-smart penalties at crucial times during games. Those need to be limited and if he's played with a smarter, perhaps more mobile defensive partner, I could see him being a good bottom-pairing guy.

The team has a few options moving forward. I'd be alright with several alternatives and Boro is a part of most of them. But I will stick to my guns and say that Gryba should not be in the team's long or even short term plans.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Borowiecki is fine and I would not mind having him on the bottom pairing. But when I look at our current roster and see that we need to add a body from either free agency or from another team to upgrade our 2nd pairing, I see Wiercioch and Ceci as more suitable options.

Obviously, if Cowen continues to falter moving forward, I would suggest letting Borowiecki round out the bottom-pairing. But I also think that Claesson is going to be a pretty good NHL defenseman soon and we'll be pushing another body out.

I don't have a lot against Borowiecki. I really admire his will and the obvious effort he puts into each shift. He's just not incredibly gifted technically. Pretty poor puck skills. Not the highest on-ice IQ. My biggest complaint with Boro is that he needs to play with more discipline. I love that he's willing to throw his body around and play physically but he takes a lot of not-so-smart penalties at crucial times during games. Those need to be limited and if he's played with a smarter, perhaps more mobile defensive partner, I could see him being a good bottom-pairing guy.

The team has a few options moving forward. I'd be alright with several alternatives and Boro is a part of most of them. But I will stick to my guns and say that Gryba should not be in the team's long or even short term plans.

Boro's diclinpilne seemingly improved this year. He was at least taking more guys with him when he went to the box.

Gryba and Chiasson were terrible in the penalty department. Both took a ton and drawed very few


Heres the charts for penalties taken and drawen per 60.
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...4_s&f2=5v5&f5=OTT&c=0+1+3+5+41+42+43+44+45+46
Boro finished with a negative .8 ratio

Puempel negative 1.7 (limited min)
Chiasson negative 1.0
Gryba neagtive .9



So he wasnt the worst when it came to penalties. This is 5v5 though

When pking MacArthur, Gryba, Michaelk and Cowen all took more penalties then Boro per 60 mins on ice

I think he improved discpline wise partly because he is no longer pressing for an NHL spot and partly because he played injured for a quarter of the season

 

[Mr Invidious]

Boro's diclinpilne seemingly improved this year. He was at least taking more guys with him when he went to the box.

Gryba and Chiasson were terrible in the penalty department. Both took a ton and drawed very few

Heres the charts for penalties taken and drawen per 60.

Boro finished with a negative .8 ratio

Puempel negative 1.7 (limited min)
Chiasson negative 1.0
Gryba neagtive .8

So he wasnt the worst when it came to penalties. This is 5v5 though

Sure, I can believe that. Like I said, Gryba is worse and I hope the team cuts him off like an infected limb.

It's still something that Borowiecki needs to work on. There's a difference between the penalties that can be taken and I find that he's taking really unnecessary penalties because of poor decision making.

If his actual numbers improved over the course of the season then good. Hopefully the coaching staff made him aware of it and he's trying to make a conscious effort to be more disciplined.

 

[BigBush*]

without Boro or Gryba (or both), our defence becomes incredibly soft. Methot is the only other guy who can hit or is intimidating on a regular basis. I guess Cowen as well when not in the press box.

 

[mcnorth]

It's pretty clear the team at present has two second lines, two fourth lines, a first pairing D, and two third pairing D. Luckily, most nights this season we've had two starting goaltenders.

It seems possible that we could finagle a way to improve to two second lines, a third line, a fourth line, and build a decent second pairing D. And then find a way to not mess up the goaltending. That'd a be a good team.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

This. Even Ceci isnt exactly the best fit for the 2nd pairing.

Sure but he's our best option at the moment

In an ideal world we are deep enough that Ceci is on the third pairing and that means we are a contender