Boro/Gryba?

[aragorn]

I guess they could replace the Boro/Gryba combination with the Cleasson/Wideman combo but that would mean that Ottawa would lose most of their toughness & size on defence. Personally, I like a tough brand of hockey & am not a fan of European hockey with no hitting. I think you also have to ask the question that if this team gets smaller & softer how will they do against the big clubs out there & specifically against western teams.

A couple of yrs ago Ottawa pushed Montreal around, beat them up & won the series. This yr Montreal has a lot more size & toughness in their lineup & they were able to beat us. While most teams are trying to get bigger & tougher I don't think Ottawa should look to get smaller & softer. I thought Cowen & Ceci were doing fine until Cowen got suspended & I like the Boro /Gryba combo. I would trade Wiercioch while his value is high & see what kind of return I could get, he is just too soft, weak & slow. Would love to get Simmonds out of Philly.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

I dont think one can say with certainty Claessan would be an upgrade to Boro

 

[bert]

I dont think one can say with certainty Claessan would be an upgrade to Boro

He wouldnt be not for this team. Gryba on the other hand.... He's gotta go.

 

[Sensinitis]

Pls get rid of Gryba pls... Just pls

Replace with Wideman.

 

[Laphroaig]

Gryba is way under appreciated here. He's a perfectly respectable third pairing defenseman with a very reasonable contract. No reason to move him.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Gryba is way under appreciated here. He's a perfectly respectable third pairing defenseman with a very reasonable contract. No reason to move him.

Both Boro and Gryba fit this description but both aren't good enough to make up our bottom pair into a great one on a contender, imo.

You need 1 above average 3rd pairing guy and one average. Both these guys fit in the average. Maybe they get better but it's preferable we have a puck moving guy on there two.

When the puck is in our own zone these guys just bank it off the glass almost all. the. time.

 

[Mr Invidious]

If this team wants to go anywhere, Gryba needs to go. He has, undoubtedly, one of the lowest hockey IQs I have seen on a defenseman since Matt Gilroy. He makes boneheaded decision after boneheaded decision while being a sub-par skater.

I can live with Boro as a #7.

Claesson and Wideman need to be given a shot in the line-up but I don't think our answer can be found internally. This team needs to acquire another top 4 defenseman. No question.

I'm also of the ilk that Cowen is still a good piece. He was playing well at the beginning of the season and only trailed off as much as anyone else before he disappeared from the line-up.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Both Boro and Gryba fit this description but both aren't good enough to make up our bottom pair into a great one on a contender, imo.

You need 1 above average 3rd pairing guy and one average. Both these guys fit in the average. Maybe they get better but it's preferable we have a puck moving guy on there two.

When the puck is in our own zone these guys just bank it off the glass almost all. the. time.

This is it exactly. Gryba is not awful, Boro isn't either although he's better than Gryba imo, the problem lies in that they aren't great together and either would likely excel with a more mobile guy.

Boro-Gryba is not a cup contending bottom pairing and it's even more glaring because we have a fairly average 2nd pairing and no spare RD to ever plug in for Gryba.

 

[tony d]

I thought they played decent but more proof positive we need to add a defenseman before the start of next season to take the next step.

 

[Proust*]

I thought they played decent but more proof positive we need to add a defenseman before the start of next season to take the next step.

Murray doesn't think we need one. Apparently a top 6 forward is the glaring need.

 

[bert]

Gryba is way under appreciated here. He's a perfectly respectable third pairing defenseman with a very reasonable contract. No reason to move him.

Sure but you cant have 2 guys in the exact same mold and Boro is frankly much better.

They had a very tough time in the playoffs. Gryba also makes alot of unnecessary bone head plays for no reason at all. When you have very little puck skills passes up the middle arent a good idea. You cant have your 6th guy hurting you like that.

The day of the big defensive D man that cant move the puck is pretty much over. You cant have more than one on the roster just look at the remaining teams in the playoffs.

 

[bert]

If this team wants to go anywhere, Gryba needs to go. He has, undoubtedly, one of the lowest hockey IQs I have seen on a defenseman since Matt Gilroy. He makes boneheaded decision after boneheaded decision while being a sub-par skater.

I can live with Boro as a #7.

Claesson and Wideman need to be given a shot in the line-up but I don't think our answer can be found internally. This team needs to acquire another top 4 defenseman. No question.

I'm also of the ilk that Cowen is still a good piece. He was playing well at the beginning of the season and only trailed off as much as anyone else before he disappeared from the line-up.

While I agree with most of your points I dont know how you can describe Gryba like that then say you like Cowen. He makes even worse decisions.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Gryba is fine
Boro is fine

They just shouldn't be played together because both are poor skaters and don't handle the puck very well (Boro is better at it than Gryba)

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Sure but you cant have 2 guys in the exact same mold and Boro is frankly much better.

They had a very tough time in the playoffs. Gryba also makes alot of unnecessary bone head plays for no reason at all. When you have very little puck skills passes up the middle arent a good idea. You cant have your 6th guy hurting you like that.

The day of the big defensive D man that cant move the puck is pretty much over. You cant have more than one on the roster just look at the remaining teams in the playoffs.

They didnt have a hard time in the playoffs. They were actually less of a liability then Wier and Ceci and controlled the flow of the game better then Wier and Ceci. This was shown using statistics They look worse because the start in the defensive zone an insane amount of time


Boro isnt a poor skater either. He's probably tied for third or our 4th best skating dman. He's average to good for the type of dman he is and unlike Cowen he knows how to use his skating and knows how to time things

 

[TheNewEra]

keep boro

send gryba far away, far far away. Boro brings a different element to the team where as gryba brings atleast 1 penalty a game (normally at a very important time)

 

[Mr Invidious]

While I agree with most of your points I dont know how you can describe Gryba like that then say you like Cowen. He makes even worse decisions.

Gryba gets more of a pass from people because nothing was ever expected from him. He's pretty awful.

I was one of Cowen's biggest critics last season. He was brutal. I wanted him sat in the press box night in and night out. He came out this season and still looked cringey the first few games of the season. But at about the 10 game mark, I honestly believe that he was playing like one of our best blue-liners.

Cowen looked so much more confident with the puck. He was making smart plays. He looked far more mobile and shifty than he had in year's past. I don't think a lot of people actually recognized just how effective he looked during the beginning and middle parts of this season.

He trailed off with the rest of the blue-line with Methot out but this was during a time where not a single one of them was performing. After his questionable suspension against Florida, he disappeared from the line-up. I'm pretty much convinced that he's got another nagging injury due to the nature of his departure being so quiet.

I have faith in Cowen's game moving forward. I know it's the popular thing to do to rag on him because it was so easy after being so bad last season but if he's given his chance to play next season, I've got a feeling he'll remind a few people why he used to be so highly touted. I don't think he'll ever be that #2 defenseman we were all hoping for but he can be a solid 2nd pairing player.

But yeah, Eric Gryba isn't even a serviceable bottom-pairing player. The dude is a liability in all capacities.

 

[Othello*]

Gryba can't skate or make a first pass. I could live with that if he's good defensively but he's not. Bad dman all around

 

[alfie follower]

Gryba can't skate or make a first pass. I could live with that if he's good defensively but he's not. Bad dman all around

He does a good job on the PK, him and Boro clear the front better thn the rest,cept maybe Methot... I don't know if I want wideman, claussen, ceci, weircoch, killing penalties, we might have a lot more GA... I agree Boro, Gryba isn't a great 3rd pairing, but with a low budget, I doubt we're gonna find all-star5 and 6 defenceman... it is what it is, and Boro is useful as a badly needed deterent....

 

[Mr Invidious]

He does a good job on the PK, him and Boro clear the front better thn the rest,cept maybe Methot... I don't know if I want wideman, claussen, ceci, weircoch, killing penalties, we might have a lot more GA... I agree Boro, Gryba isn't a great 3rd pairing, but with a low budget, I doubt we're gonna find all-star5 and 6 defenceman... it is what it is, and Boro is useful as a badly needed deterent....

Gryba benefited from playing with Boro (as hilarious and sad as they may sound) when playing on the PK. Boro is a much more physical presence which is why I'm alright with him being a #7 or even a #6. He's the one clearing the crease. Gryba stands there hoping the puck doesn't come his way.

While having Wiercioch, Ceci or Wideman on the PK would be experimental at best, I believe that Claesson would be a good PK defenseman in the NHL. I think Ceci definitely has the potential to be effective as well.

 

[Cosmix]

How do you guys think they played this series? Should we keep both of them going forward?

Personally I thought they struggled tremendously to start the series. They seemed to have trouble with Montreal's speed and literally every time they were out there we seemed to be stuck in our zone for almost a minute it seemed which was frustrating to see lol.

But to their credit they slowly improved and by the end of this series they weren't half bad out there.

I'd say they were bad for the first 3 games and stepped up their game for the last 3 in the series.

I love what Boro brings to the team. He's a nasty guy to play against for the opposition and not afraid to drop the gloves if someone challenges him. I don't think we've had a menacing defensemen like him since Chara maybe? He's like the Chris Neil of our defense. I just hope he works on getting quicker in his decision making out there as he can be a solid 5/6 guy if he keeps improving his game.

Gryba's the same but he's not nearly as consistent physically as Boro is. If one of them goes I have a feeling he might be the one.

What do you guys think?

My preference is to keep Borowiecki as he is more physical than Gryba, plays the policeman role much better than Gryba, can fight better than Gryba and skates faster than Gryba. He thus adds more to the team.

I would trade Phillips before getting rid of any other Dman. Once Phillips is gone, the team has 7 D and one of Cowen, Wiercioch, Gryba and Borowiecki can be the odd man out on rotation. Wideman deserves an opportunity to play RD to see if he can bring his puck-handling and scoring to the NHL level. If he can, then one of Cowen, Gryba or Wiercioch can be dealt.

 

[Cosmix]

Murray doesn't think we need one. Apparently a top 6 forward is the glaring need.

I think he really believes that the greater need is for a top 6 forward. I think he knows the D needs improvement and that he is hoping the existing Dmen improve next year.

I think the real need is a top 3 forward, not a second line forward.

 

[bert]

Gryba gets more of a pass from people because nothing was ever expected from him. He's pretty awful.

I was one of Cowen's biggest critics last season. He was brutal. I wanted him sat in the press box night in and night out. He came out this season and still looked cringey the first few games of the season. But at about the 10 game mark, I honestly believe that he was playing like one of our best blue-liners.

Cowen looked so much more confident with the puck. He was making smart plays. He looked far more mobile and shifty than he had in year's past. I don't think a lot of people actually recognized just how effective he looked during the beginning and middle parts of this season.

He trailed off with the rest of the blue-line with Methot out but this was during a time where not a single one of them was performing. After his questionable suspension against Florida, he disappeared from the line-up. I'm pretty much convinced that he's got another nagging injury due to the nature of his departure being so quiet.

I have faith in Cowen's game moving forward. I know it's the popular thing to do to rag on him because it was so easy after being so bad last season but if he's given his chance to play next season, I've got a feeling he'll remind a few people why he used to be so highly touted. I don't think he'll ever be that #2 defenseman we were all hoping for but he can be a solid 2nd pairing player.

But yeah, Eric Gryba isn't even a serviceable bottom-pairing player. The dude is a liability in all capacities.

I dont dislike Cowen because its the thing to do, its his horrible decisions. The one that always gets me is why he thinks its a good idea to jump into the play all the time. Which speaks volumes to me about his lack of hockey sense and general understanding of the game.

I dont care what the hype or potential of a player is if I see them making poor decisions thats what I base it on and he was worse than Gryba this year. Which is fairly difficult to accomplish.

Id love for nothing more than Cowen to be a physical d man that is responsible with the puck and not be a negative player, it would be huge for the organization but I have seen nothing in that in him. I have seen the same player make the same mistakes since I watched him at the World Juniors he just doesnt have it. The worst part about that is he isnt getting better because he is always hurt and in interviews its fairly obvious that he doesnt think that he needs to do the little things to improve. That article about him thinking he wont improve by watching from the press box and then the hold out... This is a guy that doesnt get it.

 

[bert]

I think he really believes that the greater need is for a top 6 forward. I think he knows the D needs improvement and that he is hoping the existing Dmen improve next year.

I think the real need is a top 3 forward, not a second line forward.

Its for another top tier D man then everyone slots down. After that you're right its a legit first line forward preferably a centerman.

 

[Mr Invidious]

I dont care what the hype or potential of a player is if I see them making poor decisions thats what I base it on and he was worse than Gryba this year. Which is fairly difficult to accomplish.

We seem to disagree on this topic quite substantially and I doubt either of us are going to budge. I can understand why people continue to criticize Cowen. That's fair. I just have a lot of trouble seeing how Cowen was actually worse than Gryba this past season when he did play.

I'd love to see Cowen playing on third pairing consistently from here on out. I believe he'd be a far smaller liability than Gryba has been.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Looking around at stats Cowen seems to be one of the few non top pairing dmen who averaged more then a GA per game.

I dont know if theres a correlation between that stat and performance though

Basically though Cowen is on the ice for at least one GA per game. Karlsson was the only other dman on the team who had that stat but he played a ton