Recalled/Assigned: Boo Nieves to NYR

[bernmeister]

Can we not just be happy that Boo appears to be an NHL player at this point? I’m sure he is.

No we can't.
Objectively speaking, any club is best served if it maximizes it's optimum use of an asset.

If he were a pivot counterpart to McLeod, and was there exclusively for checking purposes, that would be one thing.

He is not. He has demonstrated, now finally unshackled from the stupid vet bias that was AV, that he can mix well with other players of greater ability.

To not advance him is wrong.
To not try my experiment with Kreider is foolish since there is nothing to be lost by trying, esp since I am projecting Kravtsov, assuming as I expect he is comfortable enough to play pivot, will be the 1C next year.

I understand that up until now, it was necessary to showcase other players, but now that the trade deadline has passed, there is no reason to keep him buried at 4C.

I admit he has room to grow in his game, especially as to his shooting.
But he is otherwise already very solid if not polished, a fact that is being ignored, and the proof of this is his +/-.

 

[bernmeister]

Seek help

Holy ****

water.
is.
wet.

try and hide if you want, but in the end the light of truth will not be ignored or defeated

 

[Chaels Arms]

"The light of truth will not be ignored or defeated."

That's it, I'm sold. I'm on board the Nieves train.

 

[True Blue]

People are no longer saying Boo is that level failure, although a handful once did, if I remember correctly. But the naysayers are STILL wrong They insist inaccurately, unfairly, almost prejudicially that Nieves can ONLY be a 4th liner, and be grateful we are now conceding that.

Being a failure is not the same thing as being a fringe 4th liner.

It is factually true Nieves only has 4 goals, not that that is exclusively the only be all and end all in player value.
It is also factually true that he has played less shifts, less minutes [also not available for all games, and recovered from concussion.
Adjusted to per 60 mins across the board, Nieves 4 to date is favorable. While generally speaking statistics can be cherry picked and not provide a completely accurate picture, the math here does not lie. Anyone who wants, feel free to do it. I dare ya.

It is also factually true that as a 4th liner, he is kept so far away from the opposition's top lines, he might as well be in another arena. So while you are hanging your hat on an extrapolated statistic, based solely off of extrapolated numbers, you need to remember that the real game is played in the real world.

It is even more so b'c the odd HANDFUL of mins aside, he has not yet been paired with Kreider, with adequate practice, and the correct 1RW available.
In fact, a weighting has to be made b'c most of Nieves' 4th line shifts had hi with McLeod, who we can agree contributes a min on offense.

The reason that he has not played with Chris Kreider is due to the fact that Kreider is a 4th line player. And most coaches keep 4th liners on the 4th line for reason.

Now, the base has to decide which way the herd runs; does it mock bernmeister 'cause it is fun to do so, or does it speak truth and admit that on this, it appears I am right, not withstanding we have yet to see the ultimate test I outlined with Kreider.

This because your "test" exists only in your mind. Which, must be some kind of interesting place to be, what with all the flying unicorns. The fact that he has not been so tested, is because the Rangers management (not anyone on this board) have not deemed that for the good of the team, a 4th liner should be elevated to playing with your teams top players. Let alone, pushing your borderline elite top center to wing.

In a vacuum Nieves is now a legit middle 6 talent, not a hapless 4th liner; he could be 1C if the corresponding first line W(s) [i.e. Kreider] are given a legit and sustained opportunity to mesh.

In the real world, Nieves plays exactly where his level of play dictates he belongs.

He is among the most defensively responsible players we have, as evidenced by his +/-. Do not ignore that. Admit it.

Do you really need to be instructed in the fallacy of utilizing the +/- as your sole source of evidence?

Iam proven right we should not have traded Kreider, proven right we should have traded Stepan earlier, proven right on a couple of other things that I called for and were derided at the time.

Way to go. That and a few more dollars could almost get you a subway fare.

 

[JimmyG89]

Glad he got extended for next season. With the trading of Hayes, we really only have one center spot filled in for next season. He'll be battling Andersson, Howden, and one of Strome/Names for ice time. It's worth seeing if he can be more than a 4th line player. This isn't to say he should be seeing tons of ice time, but at this point, we should be seeing him for 10-11 minutes a game, with some PK time.

At worst we find out he's a 4th line filler. I don't see anything more than a potential 3rd line - defense first center.

 

[Hire Sather]

water.
is.
wet.

try and hide if you want, but in the end the light of truth will not be ignored or defeated

Nobody is hiding, you will never be right you have never been right.

you can take a bow anytime he scores a goal or makes a pass (or almost makes a pass as you hilariously did once) but doesn't mean anything you delusional fool.

 

[Hire Sather]

Also will you still be "proven right" when Kreider requires a NMC to sign a new contract? Will you still want him then?

 

[bernmeister]

"The light of truth will not be ignored or defeated."

That's it, I'm sold. I'm on board the Nieves train.

Welcome aboard.

 

[bernmeister]

Also will you still be "proven right" when Kreider requires a NMC to sign a new contract? Will you still want him then?

reciprocally, will you admit you have been proven wrong if he resigns without full NMC and accepts only substantial NTC?

Yeah, I want him, but thankfully he won't be a SOB and make one a non-negotiable demand.

If we haven't traded Zib to make the point -- and to take in a huge haul-- hopefully he will be the last one. Otherwise, it becomes none except for
Zib,
Kreider,
Breadman
... that can lead to an ongoing problem.

 

[bernmeister]

Nobody is hiding, you will never be right you have never been right.

you can take a bow anytime he scores a goal or makes a pass (or almost makes a pass as you hilariously did once) but doesn't mean anything you delusional fool.

You are hiding.
YOU.

If not you would directly address the point I made.
Nieves has only 4 goals but in very few minutes.
Setting aside the other real factor of him not getting ideal Ws which would bulk up his totals, or also much if any PP time, ditto, the fact remains. How few minutes does he have for those 4gs?

And the improving +/- fact will not be ignored, either.

 

[bernmeister]

Being a failure is not the same thing as being a fringe 4th liner.

It is also factually true that as a 4th liner, he is kept so far away from the opposition's top lines, he might as well be in another arena. So while you are hanging your hat on an extrapolated statistic, based solely off of extrapolated numbers, you need to remember that the real game is played in the real world.

The reason that he has not played with Chris Kreider is due to the fact that Kreider is a 4th line player. And most coaches keep 4th liners on the 4th line for reason.

This because your "test" exists only in your mind. Which, must be some kind of interesting place to be, what with all the flying unicorns. The fact that he has not been so tested, is because the Rangers management (not anyone on this board) have not deemed that for the good of the team, a 4th liner should be elevated to playing with your teams top players. Let alone, pushing your borderline elite top center to wing.

In the real world, Nieves plays exactly where his level of play dictates he belongs.

Do you really need to be instructed in the fallacy of utilizing the +/- as your sole source of evidence?

Way to go. That and a few more dollars could almost get you a subway fare.

too busy to address all of this
but just as for a short answer on the bold,
that is the point.

He is on the 4th but deserves higher.
More so, if he is put with Kreider, he will get better than another F might show with CK, because there is a basis to project they are complementary.

Stepan held Kreider back b'c Step could not skate fast enuf.
Boo does not have that prob
Stepan, granted, was a good passer.
So is Nieves.
Stepan was defensively responsible.
So is Nieves; and Boo has more upside there b'c he is bigger, faster, and probably stronger than Stepan. I agree Boo like everyone else will improve further with experience, but he is already adequate + for any defensive coverages.
Stepan was a better scorer w/better Ws, and Nieves has a way to go here, and he does not strike me as a Kreider type of heavy shot, or like someone who can just launch a blur. But he is opportunistic and is improving with each game.
Given the opportunity, he will perform adequately well or better on offense while being a facilitator for better shooting Ws.

And it is disingenuous to say he is playing where he deserves, b'c the Rangers showcased other guys prior to the TD.

 

[Hire Sather]

reciprocally, will you admit you have been proven wrong if he resigns without full NMC and accepts only substantial NTC?

Yeah, I want him, but thankfully he won't be a SOB and make one a non-negotiable demand.

If we haven't traded Zib to make the point -- and to take in a huge haul-- hopefully he will be the last one. Otherwise, it becomes none except for
Zib,
Kreider,
Breadman
... that can lead to an ongoing problem.

No, if he re-signs without a NMC I will not admit to be "proven wrong"

It's likely that he will require one, but neither you or I know what he and his agent will demand.

But any player that is as good as you believe Kreider to be always demands one.

 

[Hire Sather]

You are hiding.
YOU.

If not you would directly address the point I made.
Nieves has only 4 goals but in very few minutes.
Setting aside the other real factor of him not getting ideal Ws which would bulk up his totals, or also much if any PP time, ditto, the fact remains. How few minutes does he have for those 4gs?

And the improving +/- fact will not be ignored, either.

I am not hiding. I have been as vocal as anyone when it comes to directly bashing and personally insulting you which for some reason has not been deleted.

He has 4 goals on the season. That is not impressive no matter how few minutes he's played. It's not like he's played 4 shifts all season and has 4 goals.

I WILL ignore plus/minus as it is a garbage stat which anyone with a brain will agree with me on.

He has 4 goals. You are trying to argue that this is somehow a point in your favor. Amazing.

 

[True Blue]

He is on the 4th but deserves higher.

Because you say so?

More so, if he is put with Kreider, he will get better than another F might show with CK, because there is a basis to project they are complementary.

Hardly a revelation. If a player is playing with far better players, he will more than likely have better results. Jeff Toms was better when playing with Eric Lindros. ANYONE playing wing to Gretzky would be better. Play a mediocre player with Kreider and you will get slightly better than mediocre results. Play a talented player with Kreider and you will get better results that slightly more than mediocre.

Boo does not have that prob[

No, he has other issues. Most deal with lack of NHL acumen.

Stepan, granted, was a good passer.
So is Nieves.

Sure. In very limted time, we have seen on par 4th line passing skills.

Stepan was defensively responsible.
So is Nieves;

Except that Stepan played against top liners and Nieves does mop up work against the opposition's worst players.

and Boo has more upside there b'c he is bigger, faster, and probably stronger than Stepan.

Just making sure I get this. Nieves has more upside than Stepan? Gotcha'. And Jessiman had more upside than Getzlaf. Right.

And it is disingenuous to say he is playing where he deserves, b'c the Rangers showcased other guys prior to the TD.

I suggest you march to the Garden and demand that Quinn sees the folly of his actions.

 

[bernmeister]

Coach is complaining people not hitting the middle.

Nieves highlights include 'carrying the mail' once for Kreider, once for Chytil.

He has the size, speed, and puck handling/possession skills to pivot, which HCQ admits is his natural position.

Unfortunately, too much time being given to Namest. etc who gets his few here and there after like a gazillion shots.

I am sure several on this board would like to zing me, and I would love to be proven right. But with only a few games left, we are exiting the territory where my experiment, which had Kreider and Nieves practicing before to get familiar so as to jump start/max likely chemistry.

Such is life.
to quote the late great George Harrison (What is Life):
"now I've tried my best to make everything succeed..."

You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

With HCQ not 111% satisfied with status to date of our Fs, I renew my call for my experiment which is
Kreider - Nieves - correct 1RW [now either Zib or Chytil]

While Kravtsov arriving next year makes all this moot, I still believe it could provide useful information.

Thank you in advance HCQ for any consideration here.

bernmeister

 

[eco's bones]

Coach is complaining people not hitting the middle.

Nieves highlights include 'carrying the mail' once for Kreider, once for Chytil.

He has the size, speed, and puck handling/possession skills to pivot, which HCQ admits is his natural position.

Unfortunately, too much time being given to Namest. etc who gets his few here and there after like a gazillion shots.

I am sure several on this board would like to zing me, and I would love to be proven right. But with only a few games left, we are exiting the territory where my experiment, which had Kreider and Nieves practicing before to get familiar so as to jump start/max likely chemistry.

Such is life.
to quote the late great George Harrison (What is Life):
"now I've tried my best to make everything succeed..."

You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

With HCQ not 111% satisfied with status to date of our Fs, I renew my call for my experiment which is
Kreider - Nieves - correct 1RW [now either Zib or Chytil]

While Kravtsov arriving next year makes all this moot, I still believe it could provide useful information.

Thank you in advance HCQ for any consideration here.

bernmeister

Respectfully this is just fanboy stuff. You're too swept up in this player. He's been in the Rangers organization for 7 full years now and over that entire period of time he's never at any level wowed anyone with his offensive abilities. That doesn't mean he's not going to be an NHL player but he is a limited player. He has limited offensive creativity and he doesn't get enough pucks to the net. Yeah he skates great and handles the puck fine. He's got size and strength but if he's going to have an NHL career--it's going to be as a 4th line player and for that he'll need to be defensively responsible, chip in with offense when he can, kill penalties and shit like that. And FWIW if he can do those things and have an NHL career it ain't a bad life.

 

[bernmeister]

Respectfully this is just fanboy stuff. You're too swept up in this player. He's been in the Rangers organization for 7 full years now and over that entire period of time he's never at any level wowed anyone with his offensive abilities. That doesn't mean he's not going to be an NHL player but he is a limited player. He has limited offensive creativity and he doesn't get enough pucks to the net. Yeah he skates great and handles the puck fine. He's got size and strength but if he's going to have an NHL career--it's going to be as a 4th line player and for that he'll need to be defensively responsible, chip in with offense when he can, kill penalties and **** like that. And FWIW if he can do those things and have an NHL career it ain't a bad life.

also, very respectfully.
Setting aside the concussions and that AV favored vets over rooks and how fair were his chances, really, put that on a shelf.
Your comments, that is the projection on paper.
Reasonable.

But chemistry can be lightning in a bottle,
can also be a .260 hitter who owns a Cy Young winner.

All I asked, part of which is too late to get now, was for decent practice/familiarity w/Kreider-Nieves, and then let them get down to biz with a finisher RW.

Experiment going forward is tainted, as it was not to quality control terms I specified, but still....

what is the worst that could happen by trying?

And with the expectation Kravtsov seizes top pivot w/Kreider, I'm interested in follow up of speedy but still developing Howden with Nieves for next year; still need a sniper RW.

Anyhoo, EB, yer one of the good ones here, agree or disagree.
thanks for the 2 cents.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I love bern's tenaciousness for wanting to see Nieves play with Kreider, but I always laugh at how the type of description he uses to describe Nieves as Kreider's ideal C is basically just Zibanejad.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I always laugh at the "chemistry" argument since they never played together so how does anyone know if they have chemistry? May as well play Dawson Leedahl on the wing with Zibanejad.

 

[True Blue]

I always laugh at the "chemistry" argument since they never played together so how does anyone know if they have chemistry? May as well play Dawson Leedahl on the wing with Zibanejad.

I laugh at the fact that since his "redemption" post, Nieves has not scored a goal.

One would say that the insistence on having a 4th liner push Zbad to wing or 2C is a bit crazy, but .....well it's just crazy

 

[Miamipuck]

I laugh because the notion that Boo Nieves should be anywhere near the first, second or third line of a competitive NHL team is patently ridiculous. It's basically one of the dumbest arguments I have seen here and I have seen some really dumb arguments. Boo Nieves isn't a good NHL hockey player period.

 

[True Blue]

I laugh because the notion that Boo Nieves should be anywhere near the first, second or third line of a competitive NHL team is patently ridiculous. It's basically one of the dumbest arguments I have seen here and I have seen some really dumb arguments. Boo Nieves isn't a good NHL hockey player period.

Stop it. He is pushing ZBad to wing. How bad can he be?

 

[bernmeister]

I laugh at the fact that since his "redemption" post, Nieves has not scored a goal.

One would say that the insistence on having a 4th liner push Zbad to wing or 2C is a bit crazy, but .....well it's just crazy

I am on the record that if we did not trade him for a godfather offer, Zib to 1RW.
I have been pushing for that, for him to be bookend W w/kreider, since before the Nieves thing.

 

[Miamipuck]

Stop it. He is pushing ZBad to wing. How bad can he be?

Well now you have me convinced....................I am totally wrong. He is clearly what the DR ordered for Kreider, and the Rangers team as a whole. Boo Nieves the elite player the Rangers have been missing all these years and he was sitting right under our noses toiling in the NCAA, AHL and the 4th line all this time.

 

[True Blue]

I am on the record that if we did not trade him for a godfather offer, Zib to 1RW.

I know. You are the only one. There are many instances where the few have been right, of course. Or even the one. This is not one of those cases.

I have been pushing for that, for him to be bookend W w/kreider, since before the Nieves thing.

That does not make it any less insane.