Bobby Hull
- Thread starter crobro
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900 is pushing it.
This means 290 more goals in the NHL.
He had 303 goals in the WHA, a considerably weaker league. Sure, there were some NHL-level talent in the WHA, but most 'superstars' were good-but-not-great NHLers (Lacroix, Houle, Tardif, etc). Hedberg was a perennial 50+ goal scorer and slipped down to 30-35 when he joined the NHL.
Hull probably scores around 200 more in that span.
This means 290 more goals in the NHL.
He had 303 goals in the WHA, a considerably weaker league. Sure, there were some NHL-level talent in the WHA, but most 'superstars' were good-but-not-great NHLers (Lacroix, Houle, Tardif, etc). Hedberg was a perennial 50+ goal scorer and slipped down to 30-35 when he joined the NHL.
Hull probably scores around 200 more in that span.
crobro
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- Aug 8, 2008
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That’s being conservative if he stayed in Chicago
having Ratelle,Perrault,Dionne as his playmaking center potentially changes things IMO. Hypothetically.
Howie Hodge
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Not sure that he wasn't more effected by his personal life than declining skills towards the end. Probably both, but I think he would have been productive through 1977-1978 at least.
He would have scored buckets of goals if Perreault was his center. They played very well together towards the end of the 1976 Canada Cup with Marcel Dionne. Perreault had started the tournament with Rick Martin and Guy Lafluer. Hull with Dionne and Esposito I believe... The lines were often switched around.
Please correct me if your memory is better than mine!
The Panther
Registered User
I did this one a while ago... didn't go too far, though:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/how-many-goals-would-bobby-hull-have-scored-if-no-wha.2212459/
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/how-many-goals-would-bobby-hull-have-scored-if-no-wha.2212459/
Scintillating10
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Black Hawks fans should watch game, intermission interview part. Hull's wife is good artist. I never knew that
JackSlater
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- Apr 27, 2010
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Very on brand for Brett Hull to cheer for Mikita over Bobby Hull.
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Scintillating10
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That was good painting she did of Golden Jet. No wonder he wanted it and not give it to owner of Black Hawks
Staniowski
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Bobby Hull would've put up some good numbers through the '70s in the NHL. He was lucky, though, as the '70s wasn't overly strong. If he were ten years younger, it would be a different story. He would have a much more difficult time surviving in the late '80s (faster, better defense) than the late '70s.
The Panther
Registered User
I think I'd be careful about judgements like this. We all know Hull had his failings in family-affairs and in some social situations (the latter was very well documented by the mid-70s, long before his domestic issues came to light), but the reality is there are likely dozens and dozens of well-known and highly respected NHLers over the years who had similar off-ice failings as Hull's. They just aren't as well documented.
And, as Bob Marley sang:
Judge not, before you judge yourself
Judge not, if you're not ready for judgement
The road of life is rocky, and you may stumble too
So while you talk about [Hull], someone else is judging you
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VanIslander
20 years of All-Time Drafts on HfBoards
Conn Smythe's litmus test: who'd you go in an alley with?
In a no rules-all guts fight to the end Bobby Hull is not anywhere near the list.
Ted Kennedy, Gordie Howe, Ted Lindsay, Johnny Bucyk.
Heroes and winners in the trenches is what the war veteran demanded and respected.
We live in a different era...
In a no rules-all guts fight to the end Bobby Hull is not anywhere near the list.
Ted Kennedy, Gordie Howe, Ted Lindsay, Johnny Bucyk.
Heroes and winners in the trenches is what the war veteran demanded and respected.
We live in a different era...
I don't get it. Wiki has Hull at 903 reg seasons goals wha/nhl. You seem to say that there would have been no significant change if he stayed then. If Hull stayed, should we not expect less goals than 900,in a NHL v WHA tradeoff?
So, I'm guessing that your projection is more nuanced, like begin based on the players he would have stayed playing with or begun playing with in Chi?
JackSlater
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A lot depends on Hull's health. You'd have to think that he scores fewer goals staying in the NHL (assuming with Chicago) but I do think he scores 200+ more NHL goals. Hull scored 50 goals in 1972, and as we saw in fall of 1976 at the Canada Cup he was still comparable to any of the best Canadian goal scorers. Mikita scored 164 goals during Hull's WHA career, and that's with roughly a whole season worth of games missed due to injury over that seven year span, so I'd be pretty confident that Hull can beat that comfortably if he has decent durability.
Golden_Jet
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- Sep 21, 2005
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I can see this. Howe finishes ahead, but Hull catches up and passes Howe later in the 70s. Likely, I would think. Maybe not 900, with Gretzky taking until at least 89-90 to catch Hull.
Dennis Bonvie
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Golden_Jet
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70’s is a lower scoring era.
70’s - has a range 3.07-3.51 goals per game average.
80’s - has a range of 3.67-4.01 goals per game.
The highest g/GM in the 70’s is lower than the lowest g/GM in the 80’s.
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MadLuke
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- Jan 18, 2011
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There more to it (easy to age in or not) than league average scoring.
In 1988 there was no player over 36 and the 3 over 35 were HHOF type, Dionne, Robinson, Salming
The only player above 30 with more points than Dionne at #66 that year, (32) Dave Taylor (#62), (31) Trottier #30, (31) Federko at #20, (31) Stastny (#5)
When all those baby boomers entered the nhl it became a very young league and we can assume with how hard it did seem to be for older player to keep a job really competitive:
Was it just because it was harder to keep on with more talents in it or just that a lot of new spots with expansion going to a lot of youngling. obviously if you are good enough to get a job as a scoring forward like old B.Hull would have been, you can gain from an higher scoring (but harder to get a good roster spot) league, even if it is an harder league to play in.
The nhl is much higher scoring now than 10 years ago, does not mean it is easier for the aging player to keep a first line and first pp unit job on a good team.
In 1988 there was no player over 36 and the 3 over 35 were HHOF type, Dionne, Robinson, Salming
The only player above 30 with more points than Dionne at #66 that year, (32) Dave Taylor (#62), (31) Trottier #30, (31) Federko at #20, (31) Stastny (#5)
When all those baby boomers entered the nhl it became a very young league and we can assume with how hard it did seem to be for older player to keep a job really competitive:
Was it just because it was harder to keep on with more talents in it or just that a lot of new spots with expansion going to a lot of youngling. obviously if you are good enough to get a job as a scoring forward like old B.Hull would have been, you can gain from an higher scoring (but harder to get a good roster spot) league, even if it is an harder league to play in.
The nhl is much higher scoring now than 10 years ago, does not mean it is easier for the aging player to keep a first line and first pp unit job on a good team.
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Golden_Jet
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Ya that would be another point, why the 70’s is more defensive than the 80’s years.There more to it (easy to age in or not) than league average scoring.
In 1988 there was no player over 36 and the 3 over 35 were HHOF type, Dionne, Robinson, Salming
The only player above 30 with more points than Dionne at #66 that year, (32) Dave Taylor (#62), (31) Trottier #30, (31) Federko at #20, (31) Stastny (#5)
When all those baby boomers entered the nhl it became a very young league:
Was it just because it was harder to keep on with more talents in it or just that a lot of new spots with expansion going to a lot of youngling
Players 25 and under aren’t as good defensively as 25 and older players.
80’s being the highest scoring decade in the league.
Staniowski
Registered User
Yes, the League had better skating, better offense, better coaching, better defense in the late '80s than in the late '70s (and early '80s).
It improved a lot in the '80s. A big influx of talent.
The Panther
Registered User
The comment was in regard to the "late" 80s, not the 80s as a whole. There's a difference. The early-80s had (on average) very young players and very poorly structured defence, but defence was better and players older by the late 80s. I would guess parity was stronger in the late 80s, too.
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