Bobby Hull

[pappyline]

This thread has drifted off target. To ger back on the OP comment, here is a video from 1976 Canada Cup. Sure looks like Hull could still turn on the jets at age 37, 4 years after he left the NHL.

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

This thread has drifted off target. To ger back on the OP comment, here is a video from 1976 Canada Cup. Sure looks like Hull could still turn on the jets at age 37, 4 years after he left the NHL.

Well said, pappyline

 

[Zine]

Understood. However, it does complement the narrative in which state players are primarily concerned with state objectives, and not fair play. The Soviets legacy made this a truly plausible reason for thinking that they might want to back out of 76. But like I've said twice, I accept your more informed view that ca.76 was personality driven.

"Not concerned with fair play" is a purposely loaded yet open ended narrative. I mean it could be applied to numerous situations with both Canada and USSR.

Unfortunately, even to this day, documentaries, movies, TV shows still propagate this stuff.. mainly for emotional effect. It's the good guy/bad guy narrative.
We need to move beyond labels to truly understand situations.

 

[Staniowski]

This thread has drifted off target. To ger back on the OP comment, here is a video from 1976 Canada Cup. Sure looks like Hull could still turn on the jets at age 37, 4 years after he left the NHL.

Hull would definitely have put up good numbers in the NHL if he'd played from 1973 to 1979 or 1980. He was still scoring very well when he left in '72, and continued to score in the WHA. There's no reason to believe it would've been different if he remained in the NHL. Most likely, 800 goals easily, maybe 900. Guys like Esposito and Ratelle - who were just a bit younger than Hull - were still going strong through the '70s.

 

[Staniowski]

An interesting thing about Bobby Hull is his size. I don't have any memory of 1972, when he left for the WHA, but of course we all heard people talking about Hull in the '70s and '80s, and based on how people talked about him, I always pictured him as a big guy, maybe 6' 2" or so. But, he was only 5' 10", and looks quite small when you watch him play (or see him next to Beliveau). The same height as Kariya, Recchi, and Connor Bedard, but about the same weight as Recchi.

 

[Overrated]

An interesting thing about Bobby Hull is his size. I don't have any memory of 1972, when he left for the WHA, but of course we all heard people talking about Hull in the '70s and '80s, and based on how people talked about him, I always pictured him as a big guy, maybe 6' 2" or so. But, he was only 5' 10", and looks quite small when you watch him play (or see him next to Beliveau). The same height as Kariya, Recchi, and Connor Bedard, but about the same weight as Recchi.

All of the old school players would be taller with modern nutrition. People barely ate meat 100 years ago so they were stunted.

 

[Zine]

An interesting thing about Bobby Hull is his size. I don't have any memory of 1972, when he left for the WHA, but of course we all heard people talking about Hull in the '70s and '80s, and based on how people talked about him, I always pictured him as a big guy, maybe 6' 2" or so. But, he was only 5' 10", and looks quite small when you watch him play (or see him next to Beliveau). The same height as Kariya, Recchi, and Connor Bedard, but about the same weight as Recchi.

All of the old school players would be taller with modern nutrition. People barely ate meat 100 years ago so they were stunted.

It's funny how we remember these guys as larger than life giants. They were collectively quite tiny. Average player was around 5-9 183 in 1972.

Valeri Vasilyev, who steamrolled over people, was 190 lbs.

 

[67 others]

Wasn't Emelianenko the toughest guy back in the day? With a performance like that, and the bod to go with it, I have to wonder if E. is related to Patrick Mahomes.

Nah. His brother Fedor was

 

[BadgerBruce]

This thread has drifted off target. To ger back on the OP comment, here is a video from 1976 Canada Cup. Sure looks like Hull could still turn on the jets at age 37, 4 years after he left the NHL.

I’d been waiting/hoping to hear from @pappyline in this thread. His knowledge of Hull goes back to the late-50s, when the Golden Jet was still a junior player (and a centre) in St. Catharines. He saw him play on the Million Dollar line with Bill Hay and Murray Balfour, then with Esposito and Chico Maki, and years later on the HOT line with Hedberg and Nilsson in Winnipeg. I’ve got all the time in the world for Pappyline when he chooses to share with this history community.

Hull was an extraordinary athlete and an electrifying hockey player for one helluva long time. A player like Claude Provost would hardly be remembered at all if not for his ongoing assignment to shadow the one Blackhawks’ skater who could single-handedly change the outcome of a game (no disrespect intended, Mr. Stan Mikita, but nobody made a name for himself shadowing you).

Trying to estimate Hull’s career goals total had he remained in the NHL is, to me, a bit of a fool’s errand. I do believe that, one way or another, he would have moved on from the Blackhawks and Bill Wirtz, given how volatile their relationship was, but who knows how that would have played out. Knowing Wirtz, he might have banished Hull to whatever team (Seals, Atlanta, etc.) truly stunk in the first few years of the 70s. But knowing Hull, he might have transformed Ivan Boldirev or Bob Leiter into superstars.

What I do know is this: Scotty Bowman had not seen Hull in an NHL game for 4 complete seasons when he coached the WHA stalwart in the ‘76 Canada Cup. But Bowman made 37 year-old Hull a featured player for all 7 tournament games, and while the coach’s incessant line juggling relegated plenty of NHL stars to secondary roles — at one point, Phil Esposito did not have a line at all, not even during practice — Bobby Hull was a centrepiece mainstay and an absolute key to victory.

 

[carjackmalone]

Just noticed that the line was Gilbert Perrault at centre flanked by Bobby Hull and Marcel Dionne

In CC 81 it was Perrrault centring Gretzky and Lafleur

Either it was a strictly a Bowman thing to have Perrault as Number 1 centre in those Canada Cups or Perrault was a lot more amazing then given credit for

Getting Gretzky and Dionne to play different positions is mind boggling

 

[JackSlater]

Just noticed that the line was Gilbert Perrault at centre flanked by Bobby Hull and Marcel Dionne

In CC 81 it was Perrrault centring Gretzky and Lafleur

Either it was a strictly a Bowman thing to have Perrault as Number 1 centre in those Canada Cups or Perrault was a lot more amazing then given credit for

Getting Gretzky and Dionne to play different positions is mind boggling

Perreault was awesome but Gretzky was the centre in 1981. Hull and Perreault looked great in 1976, while Dionne was just sort of there when he happened to be on that line. Hull was also probably the best performer in the 1974 summit series.

I do think that Hull's game was highly translatable. Different leagues, different settings like international hockey. In tremendous physical shape with good skill and an elite shot. There isn't any league or timeframe when Hull's tools wouldn't translate into goals.

 

[pappyline]

Just noticed that the line was Gilbert Perrault at centre flanked by Bobby Hull and Marcel Dionne

In CC 81 it was Perrrault centring Gretzky and Lafleur

Either it was a strictly a Bowman thing to have Perrault as Number 1 centre in those Canada Cups or Perrault was a lot more amazing then given credit for

Getting Gretzky and Dionne to play different positions is mind boggling

Actually in 1976, at the start of the tournament, it was Esposito centreing Hull & Dionne. They were doing well but for some reason Bowman replaced Espo on the line with Perreault. Hull & Perreault were magical together. Espo became a spare forward.

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

"Not concerned with fair play" is a purposely loaded yet open ended narrative. I mean it could be applied to numerous situations with both Canada and USSR.

Unfortunately, even to this day, documentaries, movies, TV shows still propagate this stuff.. mainly for emotional effect. It's the good guy/bad guy narrative.
We need to move beyond labels to truly understand situations.

Agreed (on the last non-Hull thing I'll add here).

I've always respected the Soviets but never more so on the morning of the Vancouver Olympics when we played them. I looked back on that entire arc then, since Sep 2 72. What an amazing rivalry. Probably fair to say that it carried elite hockey for nearly a couple of decades.
As a Canadian hockey fan who grew up in that era, I consider myself indebted to what the Soviets brought to the table and how they never backed down. Which leads to my final point to what you were saying earlier: The Canada Cups were mainly for those who knew hockey. 87 was the climax of the greatest rivalry of the 20th century in ice hockey, another win-win like 72 imo.

 

[Staniowski]

Actually in 1976, at the start of the tournament, it was Esposito centreing Hull & Dionne. They were doing well but for some reason Bowman replaced Espo on the line with Perreault. Hull & Perreault were magical together. Espo became a spare forward.

Bowman was constantly moving players around, fidgeting, experimenting with line combinations. He did it on the Habs too. In that tournament, also, several forwards were in and out of the lineup, so that alone meant lines were changing every game.

I think Bowman felt Esposito's skating was a little lacking for the game against the Soviets (which was the final round robin game).

Esposito didn't remain as the "spare", he played less in two of the games, but played lots in the final game against the Czechs. And he scored more points in the 2-game finals than Hull did.

Hull and Perreault did play well together, and Perreault was certainly more suited to playing with Hull than Esposito was. Hull and Esposito were never close to being ideal linemates.