Bobby Carpenter
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NJD Kula
THE SPITFIRES LINE
BubbaBoot
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Was a can't miss kid who all of a sudden hit a slump and couldn't get out of it. Never really regained his confidence nor the confidence of some coaches, he may have wilted under the pressure, (he was only 21 when he peaked at 53 goals in his 4th NHL season), basically because he was just a kid.
Bounced around for a little while but never really regained his scoring magic, he missed most of the 90/91 season after shattering his knee cap, which never really healed properly and robbed him of some agility and speed.
Afterwards he remade himself into a defensive specialist, using his smarts and hockey sense, as well as above average face off skills when he went to Jacques Lemaire's defensive schemed NJ Devils, only once coming close to playing an entire injury free season.
Bounced around for a little while but never really regained his scoring magic, he missed most of the 90/91 season after shattering his knee cap, which never really healed properly and robbed him of some agility and speed.
Afterwards he remade himself into a defensive specialist, using his smarts and hockey sense, as well as above average face off skills when he went to Jacques Lemaire's defensive schemed NJ Devils, only once coming close to playing an entire injury free season.
vadim sharifijanov
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if you asked jacques lemaire, he'd probably say, "i convinced bobby to use his gifts for good [defense] instead of evil [scoring]."
carpenter did have a bit of an offensive renaissance after going to boston for steve kasper and providing them with valuable secondary scoring behind the neely/janney line. he couldn't replace the playoff production or defensive game that kasper gave boston in 80s though. that was one of the big reasons the Bs lost to the oilers in the finals in '90-- nobody other than neely, janney, and bourque could put the puck in the net, so once tikkanen-lamb-kurri shut down boston's top line, it was over.
First off, it has to be noted that Carpenter’s 53 goal, 95 point season was a massive outlier. Wasn’t close to that any other year of his career. Basically he was a 60-70 point (or 45-55 adjusted point) fine 2nd line player.
He had a nightmare 1986-87 season where he was traded twice and only scored 9 goals, but bounced back for the next few years and was again putting up 50-60 point seasons.
The turning point of his career was probably his shattered kneecap in 1991 – very serious injury which hindered his skating ability from that point forward. Looked like he was heading out of the league after a poor stint back in Washington but then found a home as a bottom-6 guy under Lemaire.
He had a nightmare 1986-87 season where he was traded twice and only scored 9 goals, but bounced back for the next few years and was again putting up 50-60 point seasons.
The turning point of his career was probably his shattered kneecap in 1991 – very serious injury which hindered his skating ability from that point forward. Looked like he was heading out of the league after a poor stint back in Washington but then found a home as a bottom-6 guy under Lemaire.
vadim sharifijanov
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in terms of historical comparisons, i can't think of another guy who was a 50 goal scorer bottoming out and turning into a great checker. but maybe the closest might be two guys on SJ's excellent checking line in the late 90s: nik sundstrom and mike ricci. both came into the league as high picks and both put up promising offensive numbers early on but ended up peaking offensively at 21.
sundstrom came into the league as the third guy on the legendary forsberg-naslund WJC line and at 21 years old scored 24 goals on gretzky's wing. ricci was once considered a future franchise player and was for a stretch the consensus number one pick in the second deepest draft of the last twenty-five years. he scored 78 points as a scoring center in quebec, also at age 21. both guys eventually settled into defensive roles and in their prime years were on the lower fringes of the selke ballot.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Although he was never a 50 goal scorer, Joe Juneau had a similar twist to his career. He netted 19 points in his first 14 games, then the following season scored 102 points. Juneau followed that performance with an 85 point season, but was dealt from Boston to Washington at the trade deadline for Al Iafrate.
After being dealt, Juneau's production gradually decreased. He was still about a point per game player during the lockout season, scoring 43 points in 44 games. Juneau eventually became a checking line center.
Neal Broten also had a similar career path as Bobby Carpenter, being a former high scoring center, then later in his career becoming a more defensive minded center.
After being dealt, Juneau's production gradually decreased. He was still about a point per game player during the lockout season, scoring 43 points in 44 games. Juneau eventually became a checking line center.
Neal Broten also had a similar career path as Bobby Carpenter, being a former high scoring center, then later in his career becoming a more defensive minded center.
BubbaBoot
Registered User
This was the playoff strategy for years vs the Bruins.
(1) Double team and harass Neely into the penalty box. He can't score from there.
(2) Run Bourque at every chance. Force him to make a hasty mistake and wear him down.
Do this and you had a very good chance to beat them.
Generally, after the top 2 lines it was slim scoring and occasional defensive lapses on the 3rd and 4th lines.
87-88 had them playing essentially 3 lines and 2 defensive pairings.
89-90 saw Bourque injured at one point, (missing 4 games), and Neely the only player in double figures in goal scoring. (He led the team in scoring and PIMs that playoff season). Dave Poulin actually had a tremendous playoff run and was 2nd in goal scoring with 8. John Carter was 3rd with 6, but if I remember correctly, most of them were in the earlier rounds.
Carpenter was rotated in and around between wing and center as the 3rd line center Bob Sweeney was a woeful 0-2-2 (-7) in 20 playoff games. He had played respectably but you're right, he couldn't replace Kasper and the 3rd and 4th lines were inept and other than Bourque and Wesley, the other defensive pairings had a rough time, especially against the Edmonton final....Don Sweeney, in his first ever playoffs, had his worst ever playoff showing.
tjcurrie
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Not really. Broten was decent offensively almost until the end. He did become more of a 2nd-3rd line guy but that was due to just age and taking a back seat to younger players more than anything else.
vadim sharifijanov
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as i recall, other than neely and bourque in the first couple of games, no one on the Bs scored at all in those finals. seems like losing poulin in the finals made a big difference.
like poulin, carpenter also produced at a decent clip through the first three rounds, but then he was completely blanked in the finals (as was propp). carpenter didn't yet have the defensive game that poulin or propp also brought though.
BubbaBoot
Registered User
Checked the boxscores and they bought back part of my memory.
GM 1 - Bruins put 52 shots on Bill Ranford but lose 3-2. Petr Klima scoring in triple OT.
Bourque had two goals, Neely and Hawgood two assists each. Neely and Tikkanen had 4 PIMs, probably off setting meaning Tikkanen was doing his job.
Carpenter had 4 shots and a -1.
If I remember correctly this was the game where it was so hot there was a fog?
GM 2 - Oilers crunch B's 7-2. Kurri with a hat trick. Lemelin started for some reason and got pulled after allowing 4 goals on 18 shots. Moog was worse, 3 goals on 4 shots. UGH!
Bourque and Hawgood scoring. Bourque, Neely and Burridge with assists.
Carpenter had 1 shot and a -2.
GM 3 - Bruins win in Edmonton 2-1. John Byce and Greg Johnston score. Burridge, Neely and Bob Sweeney assist. Moog made 28 saves.
Carpenter had 2 shots and was even.
GM 4 - Oilers 5-1. John Carter the lone Bruin goal, unassisted.
Neely 4 more PIMs. Bob Sweeney fought Steve Smith. Ray Bourque was a team worst -3.
Carpenter again had 2 shots and was even.
GM 5 - Oilers win Cup in Boston 4-1. Policeman Lyndon Byers with the lone Bruins goal. Bourque and Don Sweeney with the assists.
Bourque had a team high 6 shots but also uncharacteristically, a team high 4 PIMs.
Moog faced just 22 shots while Ranford faced 30....he was the Conn Smythe winner.
Carpenter had 3 shots and was a -1.
-----------
You're right, losing Poulin was huge, but he had been scoreless and a -2. Carpenter couldn't pick up the slack, (going 0-0-0 [-4] 12 shots), but then again, nobody else did either.
Bourque was the leader with 3 goals and 3 assists.
Neely had only 4 assists, 24 shots and 10 PIMS.
Randy Burridge had 2 assists.
Bob Sweeney had 1 assist, his 2nd point for the entire playoffs.
Defensive defenseman Don Sweeney had an assist.
Offensive defenseman Garry Galley had no points and was a -7.
Little Hawgie had a goal and 2 assists.
Christian, Gould, Janney and Propp had no points at all.
3rd and 4th liners Johnston, Byce, Carter and Byers scored, (blowing my claim out of the water).
Just a very frustrating series for Bruins players and fans.
vadim sharifijanov
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trust me, as a canucks fan i know exactly how you feel.
and i know from recent experience that when you only score one goal in a stanley cup finals loss and it came from the third or fourth line, it doesn't really count as scoring.
It was his attitude and work ethic in the early years, he was cocky, arrogant, and lazy. When he found out he was being drafted by Washington and not Hartford, he stormed out of the building. When the coach in Washington demanded more of him he went home and pouted until he was traded. Phil Kessel x1000. It changed when he got to Boston after 3 other teams had enough of him, but he really took it to another level when he got hurt and had to completely reinvent himself, a shame he didn't figure it out sooner.
It wasn't just that he shattered his kneecap, he came back too early and destroyed it all over again. He was never the same after that, its actually pretty amazing he stayed in the league at all.
Bobby...
I believe he was the first American born player to sore 50 in a year. I couldn't believe it took that long for one to hit 50....
I believe he was the first American born player to sore 50 in a year. I couldn't believe it took that long for one to hit 50....
Big Phil
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This was 1984. Who should have scored 50 prior to that? Robbie Ftorek? He needed to go to the WHA to accomplish that feat, but never even close in the NHL. There just weren't any Americans good enough to do it back then, the USA was a borderline laughingstock when it came to hockey back then. Afterwards, Lafontaine, Mullen, etc. made the 50 goal season for an American a little less of a novelty.
By the way, isn't everyone forgetting the biggest reason for Carpenter's 50 goal year? Wasn't he Mike Gartner's linemate that season?
Ziggy Stardust
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Big Phil
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Yeah I thought so. And that might just be the reason right there. I mean, people pick on Gartner a lot around here, but the while he too had a 50 goal season and never reached that again, he was a perennial 40 goal man his whole career regardless of where he played. He had 15 straight seasons of 33 or more goals which puts him at a minimum 35 goal man category every year. Could it be that the biggest reason Carpenter had that surge was that he had a HHOF winger on his line that took a lot of attention away from him opening up plenty more room? Gartner had a career high of 52 assists that year while Carpenter had 53 goals. You can't spell it out any better than that
vadim sharifijanov
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by the 53 goal season, walter had already been traded for langway, who was fourth in hart voting that year. that team also had gaetan duchesne, doug jarvis, and guys like gustafsson who were conscientious two-way players, and, as we all know, two other hall of famers on the back end.
was gartner not also carpenter's linemate in '86, when his scoring fell back to earth? or in carpenter's second year in the league?
looking at the stats, they clearly had something special that year. but why not the other two years they played together? i'm not sure gartner's presence fully explains it. carpenter almost doubled his previous career high in ES goals (41), and his shooting percentage was way higher than at any other point in his career (20.4), both are great numbers. but can we say with any kind of certainty that gartner did that? maybe carpenter was just on a hot streak, and gifted gartner his extra 10 assists that year?
Big Phil
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I don't know about 1986. All I can say is that you certainly have to look at the surroundings of a player when they hit that kind of surge. Carpenter never hit those numbers before and after and it coincided with the most productive year from Gartner with 102 points. It doesn't change much for Gartner because he was usually an 80 point man with another 94 campaign earlier in his career. Not much of a spike for him, but it is for Carpenter. There are other factors involved but certainly having an already proven NHL sniper on your line is part of the reason
tjcurrie
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Sometimes a guy just has a good day at work. I think that season was Carpenter's. Simple as that.
Iain Fyffe
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