Pre-Game Talk: Blues Moves During Draft Weekend

[Drubilly]

I think the Blues will make their picks and trade one or possibly two of Buch, Krug, Kyrou, and Faulk.

 

[LogosBlue]

I've read that the Blues brass are talking numbers with Buch and working on a deal. I don't think we are moving him. I do think we will move someone for picks. Maybe Saad or Leddy. It could be one of the defensemen that have NTC given that we are Re-watevering and not really competing for a cup. I would think the right deal to a contender would possibly entice Faulk/Krug.

I also think DA will be trying like all get out to move up in the first to snag a top tier D prospect. All the D prospect valuations seem to be skyrocketing these last couple weeks and we need to be aggressive to grab one of these guys.

Blues will pick D with first choice despite BPA. I don't think the Blues will gamble on Jiricek due to the knee injury (unless they have talked to him and really vetted him. If they can't get a blue chip D, they will settle for a bruising steady D like Solberg or Emery.

 

[DeuceNine]

Trade Krug, Binny and Buch. Get blue chip + pick(s). If you have to pay get rid off Krug than keep him and play out his contract.

Are you trying to tank?

 

[greybush314]

Are you trying to tank?

Krug=addition by subtraction
Hofer is a legit NHL starter imo
Buchnevich would likely be replaced by younger player.

 

[DeuceNine]

Krug=addition by subtraction
Hofer is a legit NHL starter imo
Buchnevich would likely be replaced by younger player.

Hofer is not playoff ready. Binner has what, two years on his contract? We'll review then. But the problem is, no one gets amazing returns from even established 1A goalies anymore. So that's nothing more than a cap dump and I guarantee we'd retain something. Blues fans are funny. Here we have a scenario where two of the three bright spots of last year are being asked to pack their bags LOL

 

[greybush314]

Hofer is not playoff ready. Binner has what, two years on his contract? We'll review then. But the problem is, no one gets amazing returns from even established 1A goalies anymore. So that's nothing more than a cap dump and I guarantee we'd retain something. Blues fans are funny. Here we have a scenario where two of the three bright spots of last year are being asked to pack their bags LOL

Markstrom just got a top 4 defenseman and a 1st and he's not on Binnington's level imo.
No goalie is "playoff ready" until they get tested in the playoffs. Binnington was a unheralded rookie with no playoff experience when he won the cup.
No one wants to move Buchnevich but the reality is that signing a player at his age to a longterm deal isn't ideal where the Blues are in their development. If he signs a team friendly deal then great but if he's asking market valued then he'll fetch a great package. Then Army can move on finding a replacement with our many chips or signing a younger FA with our plentiful cap room.

 

[ArenaRat]

Binner is not old, not on an unreasonable contract, elevates our frequently deficient D with his ability to play the puck, and is a competitive MFer who is calm under fire. We need those qualities.

I'm fine with moving many guys on our roster, but I think it would be a mistake to deal Binnington unless the return was spectacular, and we probably value him more than other teams do so that is unlikely.

 

[greybush314]

Binner is not old, not on an unreasonable contract, elevates our frequently deficient D with his ability to play the puck, and is a competitive MFer who is calm under fire. We need those qualities.

I'm fine with moving many guys on our roster, but I think it would be a mistake to deal Binnington unless the return was spectacular, and we probably value him more than other teams do so that is unlikely.

I agree with all this. Binnington's return would have to be substantially better than Markstrom's return imo. And I'm extremely high on Hofer.

 

[Louie the Blue]

Markstrom just got a top 4 defenseman and a 1st and he's not on Binnington's level imo.
No goalie is "playoff ready" until they get tested in the playoffs. Binnington was a unheralded rookie with no playoff experience when he won the cup.
No one wants to move Buchnevich but the reality is that signing a player at his age to a longterm deal isn't ideal where the Blues are in their development. If he signs a team friendly deal then great but if he's asking market valued then he'll fetch a great package. Then Army can move on finding a replacement with our many chips or signing a younger FA with our plentiful cap room.

There’s no point in moving Binnington because his contract is what the market rate is for an average starter and throwing Hofer into the fire when he isn’t ready would be a mistake.

Binnington played in 2019 as a throwing shit against the fan effort by Armstrong because Johnson was horrible, Allen is too inconsistent to be a workhorse, and Husso was hurt.

 

[Majorityof1]

There’s no point in moving Binnington because his contract is what the market rate is for an average starter and throwing Hofer into the fire when he isn’t ready would be a mistake.

Binnington played in 2019 as a throwing shit against the fan effort by Armstrong because Johnson was horrible, Allen is too inconsistent to be a workhorse, and Husso was hurt.

Binnington is the 8th highest paid goalie in the league. Of thise 8, 4 have vezinas, 3 more have top 2 finishes, and the last, Gibson, hasa Jennings That is not market rate for an average goalie.

We don't need a Vezina contender. We could sign a 1A for a non-contender which is all we need for a couple Mil. Shelter Hofer/Z/Ellis for a few years, don't compete yet to get better draft picks, and hand them the reigns after that.

 

[Brian39]

Would you move Snuggerud and 16 to Utah for 6th oa? Be almost certain one of the 3 top LHD would be there.

Definitely not pre-draft without seeing who was picked 1-5. I'm only even considering such a deal if I know (and love) the specific guy I'm drafting. I wouldn't consider such a deal based on the understanding that it means I will get one of the guys in my top 6. Put another way, I would need to see a guy I have ranked top 3 or 4 in the draft class 'fall' to 6.

Assuming that 'my guy' fell to 6th, I still would only consider this trade if Snuggy has privately made it known that he has not interest in ever playing for the Blues.

Barring both of those things being true, Snuggy and 16th overall is too rich for 6th overall IMO. Utah has a glut of 2nd rounders in the next 3 years (10 to be exact). I'd need them to throw 1 or 2 into the deal to balance the value a bit.

 

[Majorityof1]

Over 50% think a big name is outgoing. Do you all think Buchnevich? I would have but Army talked about selling him on Steen and his visions going forward. I think it will be a deadline move if we can't re-sign.

If not Buchy, then who?

 

[BrokenFace]

Another reason not to move Binner is for the sake of Hofer's development. It means Hofer gets a more manageable work load and he gets the chance to learn from watching a high end goalie.

 

[Brian39]

Markstrom just got a top 4 defenseman and a 1st and he's not on Binnington's level imo.
No goalie is "playoff ready" until they get tested in the playoffs. Binnington was a unheralded rookie with no playoff experience when he won the cup.
No one wants to move Buchnevich but the reality is that signing a player at his age to a longterm deal isn't ideal where the Blues are in their development. If he signs a team friendly deal then great but if he's asking market valued then he'll fetch a great package. Then Army can move on finding a replacement with our many chips or signing a younger FA with our plentiful cap room.

There is no reality where you can fairly or accurately describe Kevin Bahl as a 'top 4 defenseman.' The most generous description of him is that he could still have top 4 upside, but even that is far from a safe bet.

Bahl was 6th among Devils D men in time on ice per game and even strength time on ice per game. 5th if you exclude Hamilton since he only played 20 games. Which means that being as generous as you can be, he was their #5 D man after they lost their #1 D man to injury. Not only was he outside their top 4 by any metric, but he was well outside it. His 17:24 a night was 1:56 shy of anyone who could be described as one of their top 4 D men. His 15:33 at even strength was 1:48 shy of that group. He was on their 2nd PK unit that played noticeably less time than the top unit.

Last year was the largest role he has played in his career. He was a bottom pair D on a blue line that was pretty rough last season. Markstrom absolutely did not return a top 4 D and the Flames also had to retain about 30% of the remaining money in that trade.

The hockey community (and I'd wager a good chunk of NHL GMs) do not agree with your opinion that Markstrom is not on Binner's level. Markstrom finished higher in Vezina voting than Binner in 2020 (4th to Binner's 7th). Since then, Binner has not been nominated again while Markstrom was the runner up in 2022. We'll see where they finish in voting this year, but neither was a finalist and I'd wager that they finish in the ballpark of each other (hopefully with Binner higher).

I wouldn't trade Binner for the return the Flames got for Markstrom, but that return is less than what you claim and I don't have much/any reason to believe that a team would offer substantially more for Binner. I'd trade Binner for a haul, but I strongly doubt anyone would offer the haul I would need.

Over 50% think a big name is outgoing. Do you all think Buchnevich? I would have but Army talked about selling him on Steen and his visions going forward. I think it will be a deadline move if we can't re-sign.

If not Buchy, then who?

I think predicting who actually goes is really hard because that is so dependent on what is being offered. But I'd wager that Army is shopping around all of Buch, Saad, Faulk, Krug, and Leddy to varying degrees. You can probably include Hayes in that group as well, although I'd assume there isn't much market for him at the moment. That feels more like a rental deal down the line.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Trade Krug, Binny and Buch. Get blue chip + pick(s). If you have to pay get rid off Krug than keep him and play out his contract.

Buch - M-NTC, 1 year left. (Treat this one as a rental on top of that)
Krug - NTC (This year, 2 years after M-NTC)
Binny - M-NTC (3 years left.)

I'm not seeing much value or even positive control here, dude. And I wouldn't be trading off Binny anytime soon unless the offer was absolutely insane. And even then...

 

[Ranksu]

Are you trying to tank?

Well this team will sink. You like it or not.

 

[Louie the Blue]

Binnington is the 8th highest paid goalie in the league. Of thise 8, 4 have vezinas, 3 more have top 2 finishes, and the last, Gibson, hasa Jennings That is not market rate for an average goalie.

We don't need a Vezina contender. We could sign a 1A for a non-contender which is all we need for a couple Mil. Shelter Hofer/Z/Ellis for a few years, don't compete yet to get better draft picks, and hand them the reigns after that.

Excluding Price and Lehner, there are currently 15 goalies who make $5 mil+.

Only 3 of them have a cup.

The contract ends when Binnington is 33. So what if he’s overpaid as a backup for a year? It doesn’t matter with the cap and Hofer shouldn’t be making that much at that point.

Binnington’s contract isn’t a problem with the team’s construction - how the money spent on the defense is.

I’d rather pay Binnington $6 mil. AAV to platoon or backup the last 2 seasons without absolutely ruining Hofer and Zherenko’s development. Yeah, they could bring in a tandem goalie, but why do that when there’s not much of a marginal benefit for trading Binnington unless it’s a substantial overpay?

 

[Majorityof1]

Excluding Price and Lehner, there are currently 15 goalies who make $5 mil+.

Only 3 of them have a cup.

The contract ends when Binnington is 33. So what if he’s overpaid as a backup for a year? It doesn’t matter with the cap and Hofer shouldn’t be making that much at that point.

Binnington’s contract isn’t a problem with the team’s construction - how the money spent on the defense is.

I’d rather pay Binnington $6 mil. AAV to platoon or backup the last 2 seasons without absolutely ruining Hofer and Zherenko’s development. Yeah, they could bring in a tandem goalie, but why do that when there’s not much of a marginal benefit for trading Binnington unless it’s a substantial overpay?

I'm not saying he is overpaid. My point was we could sign a 1A who could transition to a 1B to shelter Hofer while we are not looking to make a cup run for less than Binnington. We aren't winning the cup with Prime Hasek or Vasi or a Walrus in net over the next couple years. So it doesn't matter too much if we have Binnington sheltering Hofer or a $3M goalie.

If we can get good assets for Binnington, there is an argument to be made that we should take it because Binner's contract will be nearly over when our window opens. The argument that we'd have to spend $6M or close to it to shelter Hofer is just wrong. You can disagree about trasing Binnington, but not because we absolutely cannot shelter Hofer for less than $6M.

 

[Ibleedlou]

I could see the Blues offering Buch at the draft if it allowed the Blues to move inside the top 10. If they wait until the trade deadline, we either deal, let him walk, or resign a 30 y/o....less leverage for the Blues, certainly less than last year's TDL and at this year's draft. Blues offer #16 and a sign & trade Buch for #7, just an example, with Buium still available, I think the Blues would absolutely do this, and it might take a 2nd, a third team, and/or other players involved, but I could see a situation such as this occurring. I don't think the Blues would trade Buch to a bad team/situation, as they appear to have a lot of respect for PB, but it appears to be a good year for the Blues to get aggressive if they choose, as there is going to be a lot of talent left at #16, for whomever they trade with, if something does go down.
If they don't move up, I get an odd feeling the Blues end up with Freij. It's early, so maybe a slight move back, but Freij is my guess if they don't move up.

 

[ArenaRat]

Binnington is the 8th highest paid goalie in the league. Of thise 8, 4 have vezinas, 3 more have top 2 finishes, and the last, Gibson, hasa Jennings That is not market rate for an average goalie.

We don't need a Vezina contender. We could sign a 1A for a non-contender which is all we need for a couple Mil. Shelter Hofer/Z/Ellis for a few years, don't compete yet to get better draft picks, and hand them the reigns after that.

All true, but this is Binnington we're talking about. He won us a cup and what he means to us is worth the difference between him and a serviceable dude, at least to me. Besides, if we can squeeze into the playoffs he's capable of stealing a round or maybe 2, and what's that worth to a franchise making its way back to contention?

 

[TK 421]

I think the draft will be relatively quiet for the Blues, they'll make their picks and I don't expect Buchnevich to be traded or to see much in the way of pick movement up or down.

 

[Louie the Blue]

I'm not saying he is overpaid. My point was we could sign a 1A who could transition to a 1B to shelter Hofer while we are not looking to make a cup run for less than Binnington. We aren't winning the cup with Prime Hasek or Vasi or a Walrus in net over the next couple years. So it doesn't matter too much if we have Binnington sheltering Hofer or a $3M goalie.

If we can get good assets for Binnington, there is an argument to be made that we should take it because Binner's contract will be nearly over when our window opens. The argument that we'd have to spend $6M or close to it to shelter Hofer is just wrong. You can disagree about trasing Binnington, but not because we absolutely cannot shelter Hofer for less than $6M.

That’s fair, but why even have a tandem with someone who is likely not as good and can ruin Hofer’s development?

I don’t think Binnington’s contract is an albatross. I’m just saying I don’t see the point in trading him unless there was a substantial return (1st round pick). Right now with how much term he has left and where Hofer is in his development, I don’t foresee that happening this year. It could happen next year (25-26), but that would require Binnington to replicate another year like 23-24 - he arguably should’ve been a Vezina finalist this year and for Hofer to start like 35 games and show improvement.

 

[StlBill]

I want them to swap our 1st and whatever else is needed (outside of Snuggs, DD, Lindstein, Stenberg, and Bolduc) for McGroarty. I think a line of Thomas/McGroarty/Snuggerud would be dynamic as hell in 2 years time

 

[Majorityof1]

All true, but this is Binnington we're talking about. He won us a cup and what he means to us is worth the difference between him and a serviceable dude, at least to me. Besides, if we can squeeze into the playoffs he's capable of stealing a round or maybe 2, and what's that worth to a franchise making its way back to contention?

He did win us a cup, fair enough. But I don't know if he's capable of winning a round or two on his own unless the team improves greatly.. He hasn't won a single playoff series as the sole goalie outside of his rookie year. That's a little unfair because he did win 3 games in a row against Minnesotta and continued to play great until hurt. But that is only one other year and our team was much, much better than we have now.

He couldn't even get us into the playoffs this year. His money in the playoffs reputation is based on one run, a historic run, but he didn't do it on his own. His numbers had cooled off greatly from his regular season. He didn't win the Conn Smythe, and nobody thinks he was robbed of it. He was good, but he didn't will us there with a poor team. There is zero evidence he can will a bad team through a round. He has never done it.

That’s fair, but why even have a tandem with someone who is likely not as good and can ruin Hofer’s development?

I don’t think Binnington’s contract is an albatross. I’m just saying I don’t see the point in trading him unless there was a substantial return (1st round pick). Right now with how much term he has left and where Hofer is in his development, I don’t foresee that happening this year. It could happen next year (25-26), but that would require Binnington to replicate another year like 23-24 - he arguably should’ve been a Vezina finalist this year and for Hofer to start like 35 games and show improvement.

How would it ruin Hofer's development? If anything we could slowly increase his workload easier and ease him into a more prominent role when he was ready. What does it matter if the goalie who plays on his off nights puts up a .918 vs a .912?

 

[bluemangroupie]

Trade Krug with 25% retained to Detroit for future considerations.

Trade Buch, Saad and Leddy to Buffalo for Power. This gives Buffalo first liner in Buch, good 3rd liner with playoff experience in Saad, and veteran defence in Leddy. Power is the the future 1D needed. Buffalo has to make the playoffs, this gives them some desperately needed winning veteran presence.