Blues 2024 Off-Season Trade Proposals Thread

[sfvega]

With Laine being traded and the very unfortunate passing of Johnny hockey(RIP), i wonder if this would open up the possibility of a deal with Columbus around Kyrou for David Jiricek+. Losing both those guy from their roster in one offseason is brutal, and seems like they would be willing to listen on deals for NHL scoring. Im not an avid "must trade Kyrou guy" but securing another young D with top pairing upside to grow with our youth core could be a move worth exploring..

Definitely don't think that's a possibility, esp on the + part.

 

[kimzey59]

With Laine being traded and the very unfortunate passing of Johnny hockey(RIP), i wonder if this would open up the possibility of a deal with Columbus around Kyrou for David Jiricek+. Losing both those guy from their roster in one offseason is brutal, and seems like they would be willing to listen on deals for NHL scoring. Im not an avid "must trade Kyrou guy" but securing another young D with top pairing upside to grow with our youth core could be a move worth exploring.

I can’t see them moving Jiricek. Too much invested at this point.
I can see them dangling their 1st to get a top 6 forward.

And on that front I would be calling them up offering Saad as soon as it’s acceptably reasonable. Just curious what we’d have to add to pull that off.

 

[SirPaste]

With Laine being traded and the very unfortunate passing of Johnny hockey(RIP), i wonder if this would open up the possibility of a deal with Columbus around Kyrou for David Jiricek+. Losing both those guy from their roster in one offseason is brutal, and seems like they would be willing to listen on deals for NHL scoring. Im not an avid "must trade Kyrou guy" but securing another young D with top pairing upside to grow with our youth core could be a move worth exploring.

I wouldn't trade Kyrou for a maybe. We need Kyrou as well, if we are trading him I want it to be someone who we know for sure is going to be at least a top 4 guy. Jury is still out on Jiricek. Or at the very least, wait until some of the other young forwards prove they can replace him, I am not convinced we can easily replace Kyrou's offense.

 

[Blanick]

I wouldn't trade Kyrou for a maybe. We need Kyrou as well, if we are trading him I want it to be someone who we know for sure is going to be at least a top 4 guy. Jury is still out on Jiricek. Or at the very least, wait until some of the other young forwards prove they can replace him, I am not convinced we can easily replace Kyrou's offense.

I agree, as cool as it would be to have both Jiricek's I doubt we see it. Columbus is kind of in the same situation as us right now, not quite ready to compete but starting to push up the standings soon. Obviously the tragedy with Gaudreau is going to set back the organization a bit. I don't see him them making a panic move, just stay patient and trust the process there similar to us.

 

[bleedblue1223]

If Jiricek is genuinely available, I do think that's something we have to be pretty aggressive on. In my view, it would setup our "rebuild" phase as being more or less over, and we'd be in a phase that focuses on developing the pieces in the system and adding to that group. We'd have the guy in the system that we could look at with confidence of developing into that #1 guy. I could really get behind the possibilities of a future d-core around Jiricek, Jiricek, Lindstein, and Broberg. Sure, right now it comes with a lot of risk becaus all of those guys are unproven and it's very uncertain, but you have the foundational pieces there that you can work with.

At the same time, I'd feel a lot more comfortable in a Kyrou trade hypothetical if someone like Bolduc, Dvorsky, or Snuggerud stepped up in a big way to give us confidence of replacing him internally. It's a lot of risk to trade Kyrou before any of those players breakout. I would agree with people that would disagree with my 1st paragraph by saying that you get in dangerous territory when you start assuming that all of your prospects will hit at the potential that you project them at.

 

[Celtic Note]

If Jiricek is genuinely available, I do think that's something we have to be pretty aggressive on. In my view, it would setup our "rebuild" phase as being more or less over, and we'd be in a phase that focuses on developing the pieces in the system and adding to that group. We'd have the guy in the system that we could look at with confidence of developing into that #1 guy. I could really get behind the possibilities of a future d-core around Jiricek, Jiricek, Lindstein, and Broberg. Sure, right now it comes with a lot of risk becaus all of those guys are unproven and it's very uncertain, but you have the foundational pieces there that you can work with.

At the same time, I'd feel a lot more comfortable in a Kyrou trade hypothetical if someone like Bolduc, Dvorsky, or Snuggerud stepped up in a big way to give us confidence of replacing him internally. It's a lot of risk to trade Kyrou before any of those players breakout. I would agree with people that would disagree with my 1st paragraph by saying that you get in dangerous territory when you start assuming that all of your prospects will hit at the potential that you project them at.

What’s a reasonable cost for Jiricek?
When we subtract that loss, how do we fill it? And once we consider that loss, are we still in the retool phase? I would think we are still retooling given that loss would not be insignificant.

I am not saying don’t see what the cost is for him. But I am saying it’s not likely (unless Columbus undervalues him) that we are done doing the heavy lifting if we get him.

If Kyrou is the trade piece, then who is the top line winger of the future? Ideally we have two of those because I think Buch will be in decline or starting to around the time we are good, so we probably need that second guy. Maybe Snuggy is one, but I think that’s a pretty decent maybe as opposed to someone I am willing to pencil in. I like Bolduc, but he needs to make very large strides, as does Neighbours in order to become one of those guys.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

If Jiricek is genuinely available, I do think that's something we have to be pretty aggressive on. In my view, it would setup our "rebuild" phase as being more or less over, and we'd be in a phase that focuses on developing the pieces in the system and adding to that group. We'd have the guy in the system that we could look at with confidence of developing into that #1 guy. I could really get behind the possibilities of a future d-core around Jiricek, Jiricek, Lindstein, and Broberg. Sure, right now it comes with a lot of risk becaus all of those guys are unproven and it's very uncertain, but you have the foundational pieces there that you can work with.

At the same time, I'd feel a lot more comfortable in a Kyrou trade hypothetical if someone like Bolduc, Dvorsky, or Snuggerud stepped up in a big way to give us confidence of replacing him internally. It's a lot of risk to trade Kyrou before any of those players breakout. I would agree with people that would disagree with my 1st paragraph by saying that you get in dangerous territory when you start assuming that all of your prospects will hit at the potential that you project them at.

Yeah, I don’t think we can trade Kyrou at this point unless it’s for someone who brings more offense. I like our kids but none of them projects to be game breaker like Kyrou.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Yeah, I don’t think we can trade Kyrou at this point unless it’s for someone who brings more offense. I like our kids but none of them projects to be game breaker like Kyrou.

I would begrudgingly agree with this but I’d give serious thought to trading him for David Jiricek if I was a little more comfortable with DJ’s projection. I like DJ and think he can be a #1 but he’s got some flaws…or at least things that could prevent him from reaching the top of his potential. I don’t see elite hockey sense. Small sample size in what I’ve seen of him and it can hard to judge young players in bad teams but to date, I haven’t seen that from him. Secondly, his transition from forward to backwards skating is rough. Those first few steps back attempting to switch his momentum backwards needs a lot of work IMO and he’s getting blown by a lot.

Somewhat unrelated but that’s the main issue I saw with Carter Yakemchuk too.

DJ has a lot going for him but until he can improve that main flaw in his game, I’d be leery of trading Kyrou for him. But once he does improve that flaw, he would likely be untouchable and unable to trade for him then…

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

I think we'd be foolish to trade Kyrou right now. He took a big step toward being a more responsible all around player this past season. If he can perform at the level he performed at in the second half, he's not far off from being a 40 goal PPG player. I think this is a breakout year for #25

We need that more than we need a D-prospect who may become a top pairing D-man.

 

[Mike Liut]

I think we'd be foolish to trade Kyrou right now. He took a big step toward being a more responsible all around player this past season. If he can perform at the level he performed at in the second half, he's not far off from being a 40 goal PPG player. I think this is a breakout year for #25

We need that more than we need a D-prospect who may become a top pairing D-man.

I’m only trading Kyrou in a package for a legit #1 LD.

 

[Frenzy31]

I’m only trading Kyrou in a package for a legit #1 LD.

I would look at more of a RD vs. LD anyways.

 

[Mike Liut]

I would look at more of a RD vs. LD anyways.

I want somebody to pair with Parayko for the next 5-6 years

 

[EastVillageBlues]

I’m only trading Kyrou in a package for a legit #1 LD.

I would consider if someone like Reinbacher becomes available.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I would consider if someone like Reinbacher becomes available.

I think most would take D.Jiricek over Reinbacher.

 

[kimzey59]

I want somebody to pair with Parayko for the next 5-6 years

How sure are you that we haven't already filled that spot with Broberg?

I'm more concerned with finding Parayko's eventual successor. He's already 31. Age is going to catch him at some point. Given how long D take to develop, you have to start looking at the situation now.

 

[Blanick]

I think most would take D.Jiricek over Reinbacher.

Easily and I like Reinbacher.

I am going to sound like broken record here but I would love to find a way to snag Tom Willander from Vancouver. They will likely be battling for their division again this year, maybe we can throw them some help now and walk away with him. I liked Willander before his draft year but his pairing with Lindstein last winter at the WJC was just so good I want them both at the NHL level.

 

[ArenaRat]

I think we'd be foolish to trade Kyrou right now. He took a big step toward being a more responsible all around player this past season. If he can perform at the level he performed at in the second half, he's not far off from being a 40 goal PPG player. I think this is a breakout year for #25

We need that more than we need a D-prospect who may become a top pairing D-man.

In addition to the upside that Kyrou has hinted at, we typically have struggled to replace scoring once we've dealt it away. We could easily find we've robbed Peter to pay Paul.

 

[Brian39]

I think we'd be foolish to trade Kyrou right now. He took a big step toward being a more responsible all around player this past season. If he can perform at the level he performed at in the second half, he's not far off from being a 40 goal PPG player. I think this is a breakout year for #25

We need that more than we need a D-prospect who may become a top pairing D-man.

I see both sides of the argument here.

I like Kyrou more than most and I was happier than most with his 2023/24 season. While the offense wasn't quite as prolific/consistent as we'd hoped, I saw a couple steps forward in his play off the puck. I think it is fair to say that he has established himself as a guy you can pencil in for 30+ goals and he is a reasonably safe bet for 70+ points. I would bet money that he has a 40+ goal season in his career and I'd bet money that he will have an 80+point season in his career. I think he has a real chance to have multiple such seasons. And given the improvement in defensive play last year, I think he can do all those things while playing comparable-level defense to other such scorers.

Thomas is more important and I'd take him (and his identical contract) over Kyrou 10 times out of 10. But I think that Kyrou's AAV will be fair market value or better by 2025/26 at the latest. He's not a guy I'm actively trying to move.

That said, I think he has enormous trade value, especially if we're negotiating with teams who have trouble attracting/retaining talent. He's locked in for his age 26-32 seasons and has no trade protection at the moment. Teams like Columbus, Ottawa, Buffalo, and Montreal have an extremely tough time locking in players that possess his combination of talent, age, and cap hit. I very much understand the strategy/allure of dangling him to those teams to try and land that D man who anchors your blueline for a decade.

 

[MissouriMook]

I see both sides of the argument here.

I like Kyrou more than most and I was happier than most with his 2023/24 season. While the offense wasn't quite as prolific/consistent as we'd hoped, I saw a couple steps forward in his play off the puck. I think it is fair to say that he has established himself as a guy you can pencil in for 30+ goals and he is a reasonably safe bet for 70+ points. I would bet money that he has a 40+ goal season in his career and I'd bet money that he will have an 80+point season in his career. I think he has a real chance to have multiple such seasons. And given the improvement in defensive play last year, I think he can do all those things while playing comparable-level defense to other such scorers.

Thomas is more important and I'd take him (and his identical contract) over Kyrou 10 times out of 10. But I think that Kyrou's AAV will be fair market value or better by 2025/26 at the latest. He's not a guy I'm actively trying to move.

That said, I think he has enormous trade value, especially if we're negotiating with teams who have trouble attracting/retaining talent. He's locked in for his age 26-32 seasons and has no trade protection at the moment. Teams like Columbus, Ottawa, Buffalo, and Montreal have an extremely tough time locking in players that possess his combination of talent, age, and cap hit. I very much understand the strategy/allure of dangling him to those teams to try and land that D man who anchors your blueline for a decade.

Aside from the risk of not being able to replace him (the robbing Peter to pay Paul argument) in the event that none of the "scoring forwards" in our system (but not yet in the NHL) ascend to his level, I've always felt that those arguing in support of moving him for a defenseman were too willing to take a risk on a player that had not yet ascended to a comparable level of defensive play.

I'm fine taking the risk in moving Kyrou in a deal that is like for like, but he has established himself in the NHL with a 33g, 42a, 75pts per 82 game average over his last three full seasons in the NHL. Despite the organizational need, I'm not interested in moving Kyrou for a "D prospect" that hasn't established himself as a regular NHL player and isn't at least approaching the "proven commodity" status of Kyrou. Put another way, I'd be on board taking the risk in moving him for a K'Andre Miller but probably not for a David Jiricek, unless I had another asset coming back to offset the possibility that Jiricek never becomes as valuable in his role as Kyrou is in his role today. Just as, if the NYR were hypothetically looking to add scoring, they would be more interested in Kyrou than Bolduc, even if there was an expectation that Bolduc might eventually ascend to the same level of offensive production as Kyrou's three full seasons in the league.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

For me it's about the timing of it. During the second half we saw the best Jordan Kyrou we've seen to date. I'm holding until I see how he performs this season because I'm betting his confidence and maturity has increased after what went on last season and I'm betting his performance this season is going to reflect that.

That contract is going to look better and better while we gauge how much offense we can count on from our emerging prospect pool. His NTC kicks in next summer but there's plenty of time to get a better sense of what we actually have in Kyrou.

I think we'd still be selling lower than Kyrou than we should if we move him now. I don't see a team blowing us out of the water with the true 1-2 D-man that would make moving Kyrou worth it.

 

[Brian39]

In addition to the upside that Kyrou has hinted at, we typically have struggled to replace scoring once we've dealt it away. We could easily find we've robbed Peter to pay Paul.

I think any willingness to trade Kyrou has to be rooted in a firm belief that Snuggy's shot is good enough to take over the 'left circle one-time threat' on the top PP unit the instant he grabs a full time NHL job.

Let's assume that Kyrou plays out his contract in St. Louis, Snuggy signs with the Blues at the conclusion of the NCAA season this year. I'm pretty damn comfortable that Snuggy establishes himself as a top 9 player by the end of the 2025/26 season in that scenario and I think that is a fairly reasonable assumption.

Given that assumption, how long does Kyrou hold onto the spot in the left faceoff circle on our top PP unit? Because I think that Snuggy's one-timer is currently better than Kyrou. Neighbours is better suited to the net front presence than Kyrou is. Thomas' playmaking and faceoff ability are far too valuable to keep off the top PP unit. Buch is now locked up long term and is solid from the right circle (and I like a lefty there more than a righty). That's 4 forwards. Is the long term plan to run a 5 forward PP unit to keep Kyrou on it?

In a future where Thomas, Kyrou, Neighbours, Buch, and Snuggy all spend the next 5 years in our organization, I am pretty confident that you run into a "problem" regarding who becomes the odd man out on PP1. That is great problem to have. By itself, it absolutely isn't a reason to trade someone. However, I think that it does address a good chunk of the 'how do we replace Kyrou's scoring' question when you think about moving him.

Snuggy absolutely isn't ready to replace Kyrou's role/scoring 1 for 1. Odds are good that he will never be able to replace Kyrou's role/scoring at 5 on 5 long-term. This post is not to say that we can comfortably bank on Snuggy to simply replace Kyrou's production (short or long term). Snuggy will never skate like Kyrou and I feel pretty confident that he will never match Kyrou's (non-shooting) skill with the puck.

But I do think that Snuggy's shot is currently good enough to contribute to a top NHL PP unit and it is pretty reasonable to pencil him in as an adequate replacement for Kyrou on the PP in a world where we move Kyrou for D.

 

[joe galiba]

I think any willingness to trade Kyrou has to be rooted in a firm belief that Snuggy's shot is good enough to take over the 'left circle one-time threat' on the top PP unit the instant he grabs a full time NHL job.

Let's assume that Kyrou plays out his contract in St. Louis, Snuggy signs with the Blues at the conclusion of the NCAA season this year. I'm pretty damn comfortable that Snuggy establishes himself as a top 9 player by the end of the 2025/26 season in that scenario and I think that is a fairly reasonable assumption.

Given that assumption, how long does Kyrou hold onto the spot in the left faceoff circle on our top PP unit? Because I think that Snuggy's one-timer is currently better than Kyrou. Neighbours is better suited to the net front presence than Kyrou is. Thomas' playmaking and faceoff ability are far too valuable to keep off the top PP unit. Buch is now locked up long term and is solid from the right circle (and I like a lefty there more than a righty). That's 4 forwards. Is the long term plan to run a 5 forward PP unit to keep Kyrou on it?

In a future where Thomas, Kyrou, Neighbours, Buch, and Snuggy all spend the next 5 years in our organization, I am pretty confident that you run into a "problem" regarding who becomes the odd man out on PP1. That is great problem to have. By itself, it absolutely isn't a reason to trade someone. However, I think that it does address a good chunk of the 'how do we replace Kyrou's scoring' question when you think about moving him.

Snuggy absolutely isn't ready to replace Kyrou's role/scoring 1 for 1. Odds are good that he will never be able to replace Kyrou's role/scoring at 5 on 5 long-term. This post is not to say that we can comfortably bank on Snuggy to simply replace Kyrou's production (short or long term). Snuggy will never skate like Kyrou and I feel pretty confident that he will never match Kyrou's (non-shooting) skill with the puck.

But I do think that Snuggy's shot is currently good enough to contribute to a top NHL PP unit and it is pretty reasonable to pencil him in as an adequate replacement for Kyrou on the PP in a world where we move Kyrou for D.

the problem I see is we had only 3 forwards who were good 5v5 last year, Thomas, Buch and Kyrou
if Snuggy is real good on the PP only, then it makes the hole at even strength worse

 

[Brian39]

Aside from the risk of not being able to replace him (the robbing Peter to pay Paul argument) in the event that none of the "scoring forwards" in our system (but not yet in the NHL) ascend to his level, I've always felt that those arguing in support of moving him for a defenseman were too willing to take a risk on a player that had not yet ascended to a comparable level of defensive play.

I'm fine taking the risk in moving Kyrou in a deal that is like for like, but he has established himself in the NHL with a 33g, 42a, 75pts per 82 game average over his last three full seasons in the NHL. Despite the organizational need, I'm not interested in moving Kyrou for a "D prospect" that hasn't established himself as a regular NHL player and isn't at least approaching the "proven commodity" status of Kyrou. Put another way, I'd be on board taking the risk in moving him for a K'Andre Miller but probably not for a David Jiricek, unless I had another asset coming back to offset the possibility that Jiricek never becomes as valuable in his role as Kyrou is in his role today. Just as, if the NYR were hypothetically looking to add scoring, they would be more interested in Kyrou than Bolduc, even if there was an expectation that Bolduc might eventually ascend to the same level of offensive production as Kyrou's three full seasons in the league.

I largely agree, but I don't see a team ever offering a true 'like for like' D man for Kyrou. High end D are simply more valuable than high end wingers, so any trade of Kyrou for a D man is going to require the D man to be 'lesser' or 'riskier' in some way. That 'lesser/risker' could be the degree to which the guy has proven himself at the NHL level, the length of team control, the value of the AAV, and/or upside.

I love K Miller and would absolutely trade Kyrou for him straight up. I just don't see the Rangers doing that deal. I think that D as established as Miller are just more valuable than wingers like Kyrou.

I think that any 'Kyrou for D' trade is going to have to be premised on the assumption that we're taking on a greater degree of uncertainty in exchange for gaining positional value. I'm also not looking to move Kyrou for a pure unproven prospect, but there are D less proven than him at the NHL level that I'd absolutely trade him for.

For example, I'd trade Kyrou for Nemec even though Nemec isn't the NHL-level player Kyrou is and could very well top out as a lesser NHL player than Kyrou. But his upside is enough for me to take that risk. New Jersey wouldn't do that, but it is the type of move I'd make for a largely unproven commodity.

 

[Brian39]

the problem I see is we had only 3 forwards who were good 5v5 last year, Thomas, Buch and Kyrou
if Snuggy is real good on the PP only, then it makes the hole at even strength worse

Any trade of Kyrou for an unproven D man with upside is going to make the team worse for 2024/25. I don't think there is any realistic Kyrou trade that doesn't make the team worse tomorrow than it is today. Any such trade is about the medium-to-long term of the franchise.

Only 4 of the forwards from the 2023/24 roster are under contract beyond 2025/26. Neighbours is a near lock to join that group and Schenn is a near lock to be filling a massively reduced role. I think any conceivable long-term plan for success is predicated on a few of Neighbours, Snuggy, Dvorsky, Bolduc, Stenberg, Dean, Texier, and Holloway to be good 5 on 5 players by 2026 and beyond.

I'm not saying that Kyrou is expendable, easily replaceable, or that we should be aggressively shopping him. I also don't think it is a given that he is effectively replaced by the internal forward depth if he is moved. But the quality of our forward play in 2023/24 isn't a relevant factor for me when thinking long term.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I disagree with a lot of the robbing peter to pay paul arguments. It's much easier to make a trade for a top 6 NHL winger or even 1st line NHL winger than a top pair NHL dman. And we can leave Jiricek aside, so we don't focus on a specific player, but just the player type. Either a very high end NHL D prospect or a young NHL dmen that has legitimate #1 upside, but hasn't quite hit true #1 status yet. I'd feel much more confident replacing what Kyrou brings in a trade or free agent signing or internally than I would acquiring that #1 dman. We've proven time after time that we can acquire 1st line offensive forwards and top 6 forwards. Buchnevich, O'Reilly, Schenn, Perron. It's finding the #1 centers, defensemen, and goalies that can carry you that is the bigger challenge.

This isn't me advocating for moving Kyrou, simply that if there is a scenario where a team has a Jiricek type and they believe they need a Kyrou type, our management should seriously consider that option.