Blues 2024 Off-Season Trade Proposals Thread

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MissouriMook

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If they extend byram they almost have to deal power. they both see themselves as future #1s, having dahlen ahead in pecking order is 1 thing, as he could be one of top 5 or so d in the league. being behind the other seems like more than either will embrace. and if they do deal power, they should be able to pretty much name their price. is their anyone in our organization you would make off limits for him? maybe thomas?
I think they would be fine with three lefties given that Dahlin likes the right side, but I feel like those four are too much given their relative worth. I expect it will be one of Samuelsson or Byram that gets moved to bring in a righty or help their forward group, and I would be fine with either, though leery about Samuelsson's injury history. If they are dumb enough to move Power, we should pay anything they ask this side of Thomas. I would send Kyrou and our 1st this season (they seem to be a Top 6 winger and 3C short of a good Top 9) and pretty much any 3rd asset they ask for to land Power.
 

sfvega

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It'll be Samuelsson that they move, unless someone overpays for Byram. For now, at least. A year or two from now, they could end up on the Ottawa Chychrun end of things and cut bait. But we can't continue to wait on some team to make a massive mistake with a big young talent.
 

Brockon

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I think they would be fine with three lefties given that Dahlin likes the right side, but I feel like those four are too much given their relative worth. I expect it will be one of Samuelsson or Byram that gets moved to bring in a righty or help their forward group, and I would be fine with either, though leery about Samuelsson's injury history. If they are dumb enough to move Power, we should pay anything they ask this side of Thomas. I would send Kyrou and our 1st this season (they seem to be a Top 6 winger and 3C short of a good Top 9) and pretty much any 3rd asset they ask for to land Power.

Buffalo has wingers like crazy with Benson, Peterka, Quinn and Krebs (3c or middle 6 winger. And that's ignoring Tuch, Greenway Rousek and Skinner, while assuming Olafsson leaves as a free agent.

Then there's Ostlund, Savoie and Kulich who all need a season to develop in the AHL, but have the draft pedigree to warrant consideration for middle 6 roles if not top 6 - Buffalo doesn’t need wingers.
 

joe galiba

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Buffalo has wingers like crazy with Benson, Peterka, Quinn and Krebs (3c or middle 6 winger. And that's ignoring Tuch, Greenway Rousek and Skinner, while assuming Olafsson leaves as a free agent.

Then there's Ostlund, Savoie and Kulich who all need a season to develop in the AHL, but have the draft pedigree to warrant consideration for middle 6 roles if not top 6 - Buffalo doesn’t need wingers.
The only thing I could see is them swapping a top 4 LD for RD, other than that, they need a 3C as Krebs hasn't really taken the job, although he is just 23 and might take a step still
 

Brian39

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I don't see them moving Power because I don't see any other team being willing to part with the type of package needed for a deal to make sense for Buffalo. Buffalo actively loses in any Power deal they make with us barring a deal that includes Thomas. But from our perspective, the known quantity we have in Thomas is more valuable than the unrealized potential that is there in Power. I think the math is going to be the same for most potential trades they could make. You can't trade Power for anything less than a legit stud locked up with 5+ years of team control.

"We have too many LD" isn't a good reason to trade Power for anything less than a slam dunk deal for a stud 1C or an equally-valuable RD. I don't see any teams with 22-and-younger RD of equal value/potential that would be interested in a swap. I don't see any veteran D on the market at/near the level we should expect Power to reach that would make sense to swap. I don't see any team with a stud 1C looking to move that guy for the potential Power brings. And I don't see Buffalo trading him for a haul of futures because if the issue is positional makeup of your blueline, blowing the team up for futures makes no sense.

Power was drafted #1 overall and there is basically nothing concerning about his development so far. His underlying metrics are fine while playing top pair minutes (against the 2nd hardest quality of competition on the team with a modest skew toward offensive minutes). He's producing just fine at even strength and is a +7 playing the 2nd most minutes on a mediocre team. None of that should raise any alarm bells for a 21 year old.

They should be viewing him as a guy right on track to be a 6'6" stud #1 D man in the NHL. He should be about as untouchable as it gets. I wouldn't trade Thomas for him because Thomas is more of a known product and I think he has just as much 'stud #1 at his position' upside who fits our timeline great. Best case scenario with that trade, you are just shifting a problem from one position to another. But there really is no package of assets Buffalo should take from us to move Power.

I agree with others that if Buffalo makes a move from their LD, it will be Samuelsson or flipping Byram.
 

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I don't see them moving Power because I don't see any other team being willing to part with the type of package needed for a deal to make sense for Buffalo. Buffalo actively loses in any Power deal they make with us barring a deal that includes Thomas. But from our perspective, the known quantity we have in Thomas is more valuable than the unrealized potential that is there in Power. I think the math is going to be the same for most potential trades they could make. You can't trade Power for anything less than a legit stud locked up with 5+ years of team control.

"We have too many LD" isn't a good reason to trade Power for anything less than a slam dunk deal for a stud 1C or an equally-valuable RD. I don't see any teams with 22-and-younger RD of equal value/potential that would be interested in a swap. I don't see any veteran D on the market at/near the level we should expect Power to reach that would make sense to swap. I don't see any team with a stud 1C looking to move that guy for the potential Power brings. And I don't see Buffalo trading him for a haul of futures because if the issue is positional makeup of your blueline, blowing the team up for futures makes no sense.

Power was drafted #1 overall and there is basically nothing concerning about his development so far. His underlying metrics are fine while playing top pair minutes (against the 2nd hardest quality of competition on the team with a modest skew toward offensive minutes). He's producing just fine at even strength and is a +7 playing the 2nd most minutes on a mediocre team. None of that should raise any alarm bells for a 21 year old.

They should be viewing him as a guy right on track to be a 6'6" stud #1 D man in the NHL. He should be about as untouchable as it gets. I wouldn't trade Thomas for him because Thomas is more of a known product and I think he has just as much 'stud #1 at his position' upside who fits our timeline great. Best case scenario with that trade, you are just shifting a problem from one position to another. But there really is no package of assets Buffalo should take from us to move Power.

I agree with others that if Buffalo makes a move from their LD, it will be Samuelsson or flipping Byram.
i wouldn't be so quick to rule out thomas for powers as framework of a deal. i don't say that because it would make us better now, it wouldn't. thomas is clearly better player now and likely will be for next few years, but given his age, skillset, and contract powers could well be the stud 1d that we all desperately seek. and it has the added benefit of better matching the timeframe of our kids. this could be our shanny for pronger for next core.
 
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Linkens Mastery

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i wouldn't be so quick to rule out thomas for powers as framework of a deal. i don't say that because it would make us better now, it wouldn't. thomas is clearly better player now and likely will be for next few years, but given his age, skillset, and contract powers could well be the stud 1d that we all desperately seek. and it has the added benefit of better matching the timeframe of our kids. this could be our shanny for pronger for next core.
So, we rock with Schenn and Hayes down the middle.
 
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Linkens Mastery

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that should help us get our 1c at top of draft next year! but i'm not worried as much how bad we are next year as i am looking 3+ years down the road.
I'm not trading Thomas. No damn way. Yall can sell me with Kyrou for a Top LHD, but trading Thomas would be absolutely terrible for this franchise especially with what he does for this team being the only center on this team worth even a quarter of a damn and Dvorsky having as many red flags as he does with his skating.
 
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Bye Bye Blueston

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I'm not trading Thomas. No damn way. Yall can sell me with Kyrou for a Top LHD, but trading Thomas would be absolutely terrible for this franchise especially with what he does for this team being the only center on this team worth even a quarter of a damn and Dvorsky having as many red flags as he does with his skating.
i love thomas. he is clearly our best player and will likely be for next several years. i don't want to deal him. we don't have clear replacement. agree with you on all of that. but i would absolutely consider dealing him for 22yo guy who we thought would be our 1d for next decade.
 

BrokenFace

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If we're talking about how we match up with Buffalo in a trade, would there be any appetite to take on Skinner's contract? As long as Buch and one other big contract go out the door this summer, then we might be one of the only teams that could take Skinner's contract in a deal for one of their D-men. If Power is on the table, would Kryou + Buch for Power + Skinner be close?

Skinner has this season then 3 more years at $9 million and turns 32 next month. He was solid the last 2 years but looks like a 50ish point guy this year. However, his contract would be expiring at a convenient time for us to give raises to some younger guys; Skinner's contract expires the same time as Krug's. If we're gonna suck until our next crop of prospects matures, why not use our extra cap space in a move for a potential #1 D-man? Of course, I might just be way off in value here.
 

Linkens Mastery

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If we're talking about how we match up with Buffalo in a trade, would there be any appetite to take on Skinner's contract? As long as Buch and one other big contract go out the door this summer, then we might be one of the only teams that could take Skinner's contract in a deal for one of their D-men. If Power is on the table, would Kryou + Buch for Power + Skinner be close?

Skinner has this season then 3 more years at $9 million and turns 32 next month. He was solid the last 2 years but looks like a 50ish point guy this year. However, his contract would be expiring at a convenient time for us to give raises to some younger guys; Skinner's contract expires the same time as Krug's. If we're gonna suck until our next crop of prospects matures, why not use our extra cap space in a move for a potential #1 D-man? Of course, I might just be way off in value here.
I have no appetite for any player over 30 who makes over 8 mil a year. We need to get younger.
 

BlueDream

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i love thomas. he is clearly our best player and will likely be for next several years. i don't want to deal him. we don't have clear replacement. agree with you on all of that. but i would absolutely consider dealing him for 22yo guy who we thought would be our 1d for next decade.


You don’t deal Thomas for a “maybe” when we don’t even know how good Power will actually be.
 
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LetsGoBooze

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I also wouldnt move Thomas for Power. In addition to him being a 1c already, Thomas' contract is gonna be one of the best in the entire league in a few years. For all i know Power could be the next EJ. I would exhaust any and all other options with moving any other asset, player, prospect, or picks and if we can still only land a #2D so be it. Im not moving Thomas.
 
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Brian39

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i wouldn't be so quick to rule out thomas for powers as framework of a deal. i don't say that because it would make us better now, it wouldn't. thomas is clearly better player now and likely will be for next few years, but given his age, skillset, and contract powers could well be the stud 1d that we all desperately seek. and it has the added benefit of better matching the timeframe of our kids. this could be our shanny for pronger for next core.
I actually thought of Shanny/Pronger when typing the post, but I have some issues about hoping Thomas/Power could be the next generation's move like that.

I think Thomas is more important to our team currently and in the medium-term than Shanny was for the Blues in the mid-90s. He plays a more important position and is also under contract for 7 more seasons at a cap number that is already a bargain. I don't recall (and couldn't quickly locate) Shanny's exact contract status when we traded him, but it certainly wasn't the locked-in security we have with Thomas.

I think you need Power to hit his absolute ceiling for that trade to become anything but a noticeable loss for the Blues. I wouldn't say it is a large risk, but I think a Thomas for Power trade has the potential to go down as one of the worst trades in franchise history and the upside is limited to being a pretty good trade for a team ready to commit to a multi-year tank.
 
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Brian39

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If we're talking about how we match up with Buffalo in a trade, would there be any appetite to take on Skinner's contract? As long as Buch and one other big contract go out the door this summer, then we might be one of the only teams that could take Skinner's contract in a deal for one of their D-men. If Power is on the table, would Kryou + Buch for Power + Skinner be close?

Skinner has this season then 3 more years at $9 million and turns 32 next month. He was solid the last 2 years but looks like a 50ish point guy this year. However, his contract would be expiring at a convenient time for us to give raises to some younger guys; Skinner's contract expires the same time as Krug's. If we're gonna suck until our next crop of prospects matures, why not use our extra cap space in a move for a potential #1 D-man? Of course, I might just be way off in value here.
I don't think that's at all close for Buffalo. They have $22M in cap space for next season and not a ton of raises to give out. UPL deserves a raise, but I don't think he's done enough to eat up $5M+ of cap space. Levi will be their backup/1B next year on an ELC. Olofsson, Jost, Girgensons coming off the books frees up $9.25M in space and that trio didn't give them anything close to that cap hit in terms of performance. They should be able to extend or replace what they did for much cheaper. Krebs isn't getting anything but a modest raise.

For as bad as Skinner's contract is, they probably aren't desperate to move it.

I doubt they have tons of interest in Kyrou. They have a good chunk of skilled young wingers (Benson, Quinn, and Peterka), plus Tuch and Skinner. Any team can use a player like Kyrou, but Buffalo is a team that isn't necessarily lacking for offensively gifted wingers.

I have no appetite for any player over 30 who makes over 8 mil a year. We need to get younger.
That trade wouldn't be about acquiring the old player. It would be about getting younger by acquiring a 6'6" 21 year old former 1st overall pick who has already demonstrated an ability to competently handle 23 minutes a night in the NHL. Power is over 2 years younger than every D man who has played a game for the Blues this year. Injecting a not-yet 22 year old into the top 4 is absolutely making the team younger even if you take on a bad contract to do it.
 
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Linkens Mastery

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I don't think that's at all close for Buffalo. They have $22M in cap space for next season and not a ton of raises to give out. UPL deserves a raise, but I don't think he's done enough to eat up $5M+ of cap space. Levi will be their backup/1B next year on an ELC. Olofsson, Jost, Girgensons coming off the books frees up $9.25M in space and that trio didn't give them anything close to that cap hit in terms of performance. They should be able to extend or replace what they did for much cheaper. Krebs isn't getting anything but a modest raise.

For as bad as Skinner's contract is, they probably aren't desperate to move it.

I doubt they have tons of interest in Kyrou. They have a good chunk of skilled young wingers (Benson, Quinn, and Peterka), plus Tuch and Skinner. Any team can use a player like Kyrou, but Buffalo is a team that isn't necessarily lacking for offensively gifted wingers.


That trade wouldn't be about acquiring the old player. It would be about getting younger by acquiring a 6'6" 21 year old former 1st overall pick who has already demonstrated an ability to competently handle 23 minutes a night in the NHL. Power is over 2 years younger than every D man who has played a game for the Blues this year. Injecting a not-yet 22 year old into the top 4 is absolutely making the team younger even if you take on a bad contract to do it.
We get better defensively but severely worse offensively. Both Buch and Kyrou both have 15+ points more than Skinner and both make much less money. And Skinner isn't exactly a defensive behemoth.

I really don't think gutting your offense and taking on a bad contract is going to make us better. Just leaves Thomas with even less help offensively than he already has while making our offense worse and older with more bad contracts.
 

Brian39

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We get better defensively but severely worse offensively. Both Buch and Kyrou both have 15+ points more than Skinner and both make much less money. And Skinner isn't exactly a defensive behemoth.

I really don't think gutting your offense and taking on a bad contract is going to make us better. Just leaves Thomas with even less help offensively than he already has while making our offense worse and older with more bad contracts.
Getting younger almost always means getting worse in the short term. If we trade Buch, the odds of it making the team worse in the short term are very high. And if you don't want any part of big money to players over 30, then we need to trade Buch.

Your tagline is the conductor of the tanktown express. This type of trade is exactly what tanking is.
 
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Linkens Mastery

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Getting younger almost always means getting worse in the short term. If we trade Buch, the odds of it making the team worse in the short term are very high. And if you don't want any part of big money to players over 30, then we need to trade Buch.

Your tagline is the conductor of the tanktown express. This type of trade is exactly what tanking is.
There's a large difference in tanking like I was talking about with the whole Tanktown Express thing from last year (mainly just losing for a better pick) and what those dorks in Buffalo have been doing for the past decade, and recently the Sharks, by gutting their entire team. and praying that their prospects hit.
 

LogosBlue

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There's a large difference in tanking like I was talking about with the whole Tanktown Express thing from last year (mainly just losing for a better pick) and what those dorks in Buffalo have been doing for the past decade, and recently the Sharks, by gutting their entire team. and praying that their prospects hit.
Reminds me of an old saying. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
 
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Brian39

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There's a large difference in tanking like I was talking about with the whole Tanktown Express thing from last year (mainly just losing for a better pick) and what those dorks in Buffalo have been doing for the past decade, and recently the Sharks, by gutting their entire team. and praying that their prospects hit.
But again, you're not getting younger in a trade without accepting a reduction in present-day talent/ability.

I'm not in favor of a 'down to the studs' rebuild or looking to be bad for years. But if we're making trades to get younger, that is going to require a short-term step back. If we're not adding contracts of guys aged 30+, then we're not extending Buch. Extending Buch is a 'get older' move for 2025 and beyond. If we don't want to get older and instead want to get younger, then we need to trade him for picks, prospects, and/or young players. That is going to mean a short term hit to the offense, full stop.

I'm not in favor of gutting the entire team. Thomas is about as close to untouchable as a non-MVP candidate can get in the NHL. There is no return I'd be willing to take for him that a team would realistically be willing to offer. Neighbours and Hofer aren't as untouchable, but I would be shocked if a team would make us an offer that I'd take for him. Parayko isn't untouchable, but I'm not trading him for futures. I would only move him in a 'hockey deal' and I very much doubt that such a deal would ever materialize. I'd be very happy to extend Buch on a market or near market value deal, but I'm not letting him walk for nothing as a UFA. I'd have to get a hell of a return to move Binner or Kyrou. Dvorsky and Lindstein are borderline untouchable as prospects go and Snuggy is in that tier too unless there are behind the scenes concerns about his willingness to sign with us (which I doubt).

There is a good chunk of guys already here that I consider important to the next window and I'm content with the notion that keeping them here might hurt our chances of a great draft pick. But that all doesn't mean that I'm not willing to make any trade that makes us worse in the short term.

If Buch won't extend, I'd be more than fine moving him and a guy like Kyrou for a guy who I believe has 10+ years ahead of him as a legit #1 D man in this league. I'm more than fine eating a couple years of bad/dead money to facilitate such a deal. That trade absolutely makes us worse in the short term, but it doesn't gut the future core the way trading ROR/Eichel did. I like Kyrou as a player more than most around here, but I don't view him as essential to the next core if dealing him brings us a #1 D man.

I just don't see a path to make trades to get younger that doesn't involve weakening the team in the short term. Teams aren't going to swap their 24 year olds for our equally talented 30 year olds. Getting younger is going to mean taking a step back.
 

Linkens Mastery

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But again, you're not getting younger in a trade without accepting a reduction in present-day talent/ability.

I'm not in favor of a 'down to the studs' rebuild or looking to be bad for years. But if we're making trades to get younger, that is going to require a short-term step back. If we're not adding contracts of guys aged 30+, then we're not extending Buch. Extending Buch is a 'get older' move for 2025 and beyond. If we don't want to get older and instead want to get younger, then we need to trade him for picks, prospects, and/or young players. That is going to mean a short term hit to the offense, full stop.

I'm not in favor of gutting the entire team. Thomas is about as close to untouchable as a non-MVP candidate can get in the NHL. There is no return I'd be willing to take for him that a team would realistically be willing to offer. Neighbours and Hofer aren't as untouchable, but I would be shocked if a team would make us an offer that I'd take for him. Parayko isn't untouchable, but I'm not trading him for futures. I would only move him in a 'hockey deal' and I very much doubt that such a deal would ever materialize. I'd be very happy to extend Buch on a market or near market value deal, but I'm not letting him walk for nothing as a UFA. I'd have to get a hell of a return to move Binner or Kyrou. Dvorsky and Lindstein are borderline untouchable as prospects go and Snuggy is in that tier too unless there are behind the scenes concerns about his willingness to sign with us (which I doubt).

There is a good chunk of guys already here that I consider important to the next window and I'm content with the notion that keeping them here might hurt our chances of a great draft pick. But that all doesn't mean that I'm not willing to make any trade that makes us worse in the short term.

If Buch won't extend, I'd be more than fine moving him and a guy like Kyrou for a guy who I believe has 10+ years ahead of him as a legit #1 D man in this league. I'm more than fine eating a couple years of bad/dead money to facilitate such a deal. That trade absolutely makes us worse in the short term, but it doesn't gut the future core the way trading ROR/Eichel did. I like Kyrou as a player more than most around here, but I don't view him as essential to the next core if dealing him brings us a #1 D man.

I just don't see a path to make trades to get younger that doesn't involve weakening the team in the short term. Teams aren't going to swap their 24 year olds for our equally talented 30 year olds. Getting younger is going to mean taking a step back.
Trading your two best trade pieces in the same deal and only getting 1 piece that is valuable to the long term health of your franchise feels more like a oh shit move than a calculated decision.
 
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And this is why "meander through, end up in the mediocre middle" is a very real possibility for the team. It won't be a rebuild, it will be a long-term refocus predicated on having one monster breakthrough season and everything thereafter goes just as right, if not more.
 

Beauterham

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I was playing with the armchair mode on Capfriendly, trying to see if there were any takers for Krug and I got an interesting proposal from a PIT fan.

Krug and Hayes for Graves and Rakell.

Krug/Hayes have a slightly higher combined cap (only about 500,000 higher) but have less term on their contracts than Graves/Rakell. However, both Graves and Rakell's contract are frontloaded so might not be impossible to move after a few years if we deem necessary. Also think that stylistically Graves would fit the Blues a lot better than Krug.

How would we feel about something like this?
 

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I was playing with the armchair mode on Capfriendly, trying to see if there were any takers for Krug and I got an interesting proposal from a PIT fan.

Krug and Hayes for Graves and Rakell.

Krug/Hayes have a slightly higher combined cap (only about 500,000 higher) but have less term on their contracts than Graves/Rakell. However, both Graves and Rakell's contract are frontloaded so might not be impossible to move after a few years if we deem necessary. Also think that stylistically Graves would fit the Blues a lot better than Krug.

How would we feel about something like this?
Could not say YES fast enough.
 
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