Blues 2024 Off-Season Trade Proposals Thread

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Reality Czech

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You mean his production the last two years. This year he started with absolutely no puck luck. His shooting percentage was absurdly low. I am curious how he has been a “complete non factor?” Are goals the only things that are a factor? He is getting shots on goal. He is blocking shots. He is playing decent defense.

I guess my standards for an $8 million player are higher than yours. Toropchenko has been blocking shots and playing good defense as well, but he ain't making Kyrou money. It's been almost a month since he's had a game where he finished with a +. He's had way too many cold streaks this year too be dismissed as bad luck.

Kyrou needs to be better and not sure why so many keep making excuses for him. He's paid to produce and 2 goals in more than a month down the stretch isn't even close to good enough. Guessing Bannister has also had enough as he took Kyrou off the first line and first PP unit.
 

Linkens Mastery

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Over last 10 games:
Kyrou - 2g, 1a, -8
Buchnevich - 0g, 4a, -9

Why are you all not piling on Buchnevich for not showing up down the stretch? He has 1 point outside the Anaheim game over the last 10.
Also, even tho I know it's not allowed to say anything bad about him

Thomas - 3g, 2a, -6 during the same stretch.

All 3 of our 1st line players have been having issues recently. Which happens to all teams, and that's why we need a 2nd and/or 3rd line to be able to shoulder the weight when the top line have struggles. The issue is, we don't have a 2nd and 3rd line that can shoulder that weight.
 

ChuckLefley

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I guess my standards for an $8 million player are higher than yours. Toropchenko has been blocking shots and playing good defense as well, but he ain't making Kyrou money. It's been almost a month since he's had a game where he finished with a +. He's had way too many cold streaks this year too be dismissed as bad luck.

Kyrou needs to be better and not sure why so many keep making excuses for him. He's paid to produce and 2 goals in more than a month down the stretch isn't even close to good enough. Guessing Bannister has also had enough as he took Kyrou off the first line and first PP unit.
I think it goes both way. I don’t know why so many are quick to blame him. You started this discussion off by ignoring one of his seasons. I really don’t get some peoples desperate need to make Kyrou the villain.
 
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Reality Czech

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Because it's easier to pile on Kyrou because he's already the whipping boy.

Just because Buch deserves criticism doesn't mean Kyrou doesn't. They both need to be better but only one of them got signed to the tied for largest contract in team history. The best players have to lead the way and they certainly aren't right now.

Nevermind, let's keep acting like it's all Krug and Schenn's fault as usual.
 
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Linkens Mastery

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Just because Buch deserves criticism doesn't mean Kyrou doesn't. They both need to be better but only one of them got signed to the tied for largest contract in team history. The best players have to lead the way and they certainly aren't right now.

Nevermind, let's keep acting like it's all Krug and Schenn's fault as usual.
The thing is it's not all Schenn and Krugs Fault. It's the entire damn teams fault. And Armstrong's fault for not providing the depth needed. But a large very very vocal part of this fanbase blame the entire thing on Kyrou. And it's been this way since last season. No matter what good he ever does it will never be enough for that part of the fanbase and that same part of the fanbase is going to be very vocal in a few years when we end up trading him because then we will be mad because we don't have any offensive power.
 

Majorityof1

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Just because Buch deserves criticism doesn't mean Kyrou doesn't. They both need to be better but only one of them got signed to the tied for largest contract in team history. The best players have to lead the way and they certainly aren't right now.

Nevermind, let's keep acting like it's all Krug and Schenn's fault as usual.

But the fact that Buch and others deserve criticism but Kyrou gets the lion's share, shows the reasons are disingenuous. If a poster has a track record of calling out all those that deserve it, fair enough. But Kyrou is among the top 3 Blues forwards in the good direction for most stats, yet is top 3 in people complaining about him. They don't complain about others who deserve it.

That is not legit criticism. It' meme culture. Better to have a stupid nickname and picture of him crying, then have valid, supported criticism.
 
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Reality Czech

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The thing is it's not all Schenn and Krugs Fault. It's the entire damn teams fault. And Armstrong's fault for not providing the depth needed. But a large very very vocal part of this fanbase blame the entire thing on Kyrou. And it's been this way since last season. No matter what good he ever does it will never be enough for that part of the fanbase and that same part of the fanbase is going to be very vocal in a few years when we end up trading him because then we will be mad because we don't have any offensive power.

Alright, so what about the people who don't blame Kyrou for everything but are still disappointed by his play this year? Are you satisfied with his overall play this season? I don't think it's controversial to say he needs to be better. When a guy signs the big ticket, expectations go up. That's not unfair.

I get tired of seeing people complain about the same players over and over again, while some guys seem to avoid much of the criticism. I see a lot more people defending Kyrou than attacking him, but I also have certain people on ignore. The only way to silence the critics is with his play on the ice. And he hasn't been doing that for the last month, when the team needed wins more than ever.
 

joe galiba

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Alright, so what about the people who don't blame Kyrou for everything but are still disappointed by his play this year? Are you satisfied with his overall play this season? I don't think it's controversial to say he needs to be better. When a guy signs the big ticket, expectations go up. That's not unfair.

I get tired of seeing people complain about the same players over and over again, while some guys seem to avoid much of the criticism. I see a lot more people defending Kyrou than attacking him, but I also have certain people on ignore. The only way to silence the critics is with his play on the ice. And he hasn't been doing that for the last month, when the team needed wins more than ever.
How has he not been better this season?
his defensive play has been good, not simply better than last year
he is one of exactly 3 players on the Blues team with a positive Corsi, and that is playing on the line with Thomas for a large chunk of the season, meaning he is on the ice a lot against the oppositions best players
with even average puck luck early in the season he would be around 30/30 this season as well
 

Linkens Mastery

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Alright, so what about the people who don't blame Kyrou for everything but are still disappointed by his play this year? Are you satisfied with his overall play this season? I don't think it's controversial to say he needs to be better. When a guy signs the big ticket, expectations go up. That's not unfair.

I get tired of seeing people complain about the same players over and over again, while some guys seem to avoid much of the criticism. I see a lot more people defending Kyrou than attacking him, but I also have certain people on ignore. The only way to silence the critics is with his play on the ice. And he hasn't been doing that for the last month, when the team needed wins more than ever.
Hell no I'm not satisfied with Kyrou's play (offensively) and while im not overly happy with his defensive play he has shown strides in the correct direction. He's not playing anywhere close to where he's supposed to be as a top line winger. But neither is Buchnevich who has only a whopping 2 more points than Kyrou. And neither is anyone else on the team (4th place forward on offense has 16 less points). Kyrou absolutely needs to be better.

But if your name isn't Thomas, Parayko, Neighbours, Binnington, Hofer, Kessel, or Leddy. I'm not happy with your play this season.
 

Celtic Note

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Alright, so what about the people who don't blame Kyrou for everything but are still disappointed by his play this year? Are you satisfied with his overall play this season? I don't think it's controversial to say he needs to be better. When a guy signs the big ticket, expectations go up. That's not unfair.

I get tired of seeing people complain about the same players over and over again, while some guys seem to avoid much of the criticism. I see a lot more people defending Kyrou than attacking him, but I also have certain people on ignore. The only way to silence the critics is with his play on the ice. And he hasn't been doing that for the last month, when the team needed wins more than ever.
You must have some very strong Kyrou critics in ignore if you think people give him a pass. Personally I defend Kyrou more than I want because there is such distortion about his value and what he brings. People complained all last year about his defense (and it was absolutely a valid criticism), but it went way beyond criticism. It was whipping post level commentary. So, people try to defend the guy due to the over the top criticism. Flash forward to this year. The guy actually works on his defense and who would have guessed his detractors won’t give him credit for that. Now there are more complaints about his points. The guy cannot win with some people due to their bias.

The thing I don’t get is those same people don’t seem to criticize others like Schenn who is objectively poor defensively and he is not producing at his contract level. Those are very similar criticisms that Kyrou gets and deserves. Yet there is a huge double standard there. So, I personally callout Schenn more than I want or feel should be necessary to counter the overvaluing and free passes he gets from a vocal subset of our fan base and in response to the bias toward other players.

What I find strange is that Kyrou suffers from a lot of the same issues that Vladdy had. Yet our fan base didn’t ridicule Vladdy. I used to callout Vladdys flaws often because so many would just let it pass while grilling others and because you could tell the guy could have been a much better player if he rounded out his game. Just like Kyrou and Schenn for that matter. Yet here we are with double standards flying everywhere.

Maybe I am part of the problem playing devils advocate / trying to balance the scales, but it’s hard to listen to one person being held to one standard while another doesn’t have to.
 

542365

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It's literally just puck luck with Kyrou :laugh: If he shot at his career shooting percentage this year he'd have 28 goals in 69 games, a 33 goal pace. He's just had shit luck this year. Next year the pucks will start going in despite no material changes and these same posters will be talking about Kyrou's "improvement". He's been well worth his contract. He's the most talented player on the team and is the only forward outside of Thomas who can take the game over by himself. He's a 31 G/82 pace scorer in the playoffs too, so he brings it in important games too. People bitch because he actually tries to make things happen on the ice and turns it over sometimes(just as all great players do). I'd much rather he play this way than chip and chase which leads to a turnover anyway like 75% of the time.
 

TheDizee

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It's literally just puck luck with Kyrou :laugh: If he shot at his career shooting percentage this year he'd have 28 goals in 69 games, a 33 goal pace. He's just had shit luck this year. Next year the pucks will start going in despite no material changes and these same posters will be talking about Kyrou's "improvement". He's been well worth his contract. He's the most talented player on the team and is the only forward outside of Thomas who can take the game over by himself. He's a 31 G/82 pace scorer in the playoffs too, so he brings it in important games too. People bitch because he actually tries to make things happen on the ice and turns it over sometimes(just as all great players do). I'd much rather he play this way than chip and chase which leads to a turnover anyway like 75% of the time.
IF IF IF

even IF that happened, 33 goals for 8 million dollars is a J O K E
 

STLegend

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IF IF IF

even IF that happened, 33 goals for 8 million dollars is a J O K E
Is it? I guess if he somehow managed to score 33 goals with 0 assists it'd be pretty comical.

But assuming he is able to tally around the same amount of assists, totaling around 70 points, while not being a defensive liability (he hasn't been this season); then that's a fair contract...

I'm of the mindset that he should be traded this summer but I'm not dilusional...
 

Linkens Mastery

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Is it? I guess if he somehow managed to score 33 goals with 0 assists it'd be pretty comical.

But assuming he is able to tally around the same amount of assists, totaling around 70 points, while not being a defensive liability (he hasn't been this season); then that's a fair contract...

I'm of the mindset that he should be traded this summer but I'm not dilusional...
I doubt the Blues Trade Kyrou coming off a down season offensively, if they do decide to trade him I think they will allow him to try to bounce back next season to either play up to his contract or to at least let his point totals increase again. 2025 draft would be the earliest I can see him traded. Plus I think they would prefer to trade Buch if he's not willing to sign an extension and losing Both Buch and Kyrou in one offseason would not be the best for Army's Remix
 

STLegend

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I doubt the Blues Trade Kyrou coming off a down season offensively, if they do decide to trade him I think they will allow him to try to bounce back next season to either play up to his contract or to at least let his point totals increase again. 2025 draft would be the earliest I can see him traded. Plus I think they would prefer to trade Buch if he's not willing to sign an extension and losing Both Buch and Kyrou in one offseason would not be the best for Army's Remix
He has a NTC in 2025, I'm guessing that it becomes active in July around FA time?

Buch is the one you keep IMO.
 

Celtic Note

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I doubt the Blues Trade Kyrou coming off a down season offensively, if they do decide to trade him I think they will allow him to try to bounce back next season to either play up to his contract or to at least let his point totals increase again. 2025 draft would be the earliest I can see him traded. Plus I think they would prefer to trade Buch if he's not willing to sign an extension and losing Both Buch and Kyrou in one offseason would not be the best for Army's Remix
I was trying to envision a reality where we traded Buch to Carolina for Necas plus and then sent Kyrou to Buffalo with a plus for a top tier young D. I could never figure out how to make it work though. It felt like maybe something could be there and make us better for the future, but I never could figure it out. It’s something like that I could see happening though. More of a shuffling of the chairs move. The likelihood of making two of those types of moves in one offseason seems slim though.
 

Linkens Mastery

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He has a NTC in 2025, I'm guessing that it becomes active in July around FA time?

Buch is the one you keep IMO.
You say he's the one to keep. I'd agree if they were the same age. But, Buch is about to turn 29 and will be 30 when his next contract starts. Are we really willing to sign Buch to a 6-8 year contract for 8mil+ a season until he is 36-38??? By the time these golden egg prospects we have are ready Buch is going to be on the decline.
 

Linkens Mastery

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I was trying to envision a reality where we traded Buch to Carolina for Necas plus and then sent Kyrou to Buffalo with a plus for a top tier young D. I could never figure out how to make it work though. It felt like maybe something could be there and make us better for the future, but I never could figure it out. It’s something like that I could see happening though. More of a shuffling of the chairs move. The likelihood of making two of those types of moves in one offseason seems slim though.
The thing with Necas is he's going to be demanding a similar, maybe a slightly lesser cap hit, but still similar contract to Kyrou all for a player that we are going to treat just like Kyrou. Because he's not good defensively and he is worse offensively.
 

TheDizee

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Does he have a NTC and if so when does it kick in?
 

Linkens Mastery

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Does he have a NTC and if so when does it kick in?
Who? Kyrou, Buch, or Necas? Kyrou's NTC doesn't kick in until after the 2025 Draft. Buch had a M-NTC, and Necas is an RFA at the end of this season so he can't have a NTC until at least the 2025-26 Season but he needs a new contract this offseason.
 
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PocketNines

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Alright, so what about the people who don't blame Kyrou for everything but are still disappointed by his play this year? Are you satisfied with his overall play this season? I don't think it's controversial to say he needs to be better. When a guy signs the big ticket, expectations go up. That's not unfair.

I get tired of seeing people complain about the same players over and over again, while some guys seem to avoid much of the criticism. I see a lot more people defending Kyrou than attacking him, but I also have certain people on ignore. The only way to silence the critics is with his play on the ice. And he hasn't been doing that for the last month, when the team needed wins more than ever.

Spectacularly, here is your special pleading about what will we do with the people who reach their opinion honestly.

This is very amazing.

Your first move is to discredit the person because of how you decide they formed their opinion. You do this routinely, like breathing. What amazing hypocrisy this is
 

Reality Czech

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You must have some very strong Kyrou critics in ignore if you think people give him a pass. Personally I defend Kyrou more than I want because there is such distortion about his value and what he brings. People complained all last year about his defense (and it was absolutely a valid criticism), but it went way beyond criticism. It was whipping post level commentary. So, people try to defend the guy due to the over the top criticism. Flash forward to this year. The guy actually works on his defense and who would have guessed his detractors won’t give him credit for that. Now there are more complaints about his points. The guy cannot win with some people due to their bias.

The thing I don’t get is those same people don’t seem to criticize others like Schenn who is objectively poor defensively and he is not producing at his contract level. Those are very similar criticisms that Kyrou gets and deserves. Yet there is a huge double standard there. So, I personally callout Schenn more than I want or feel should be necessary to counter the overvaluing and free passes he gets from a vocal subset of our fan base and in response to the bias toward other players.

What I find strange is that Kyrou suffers from a lot of the same issues that Vladdy had. Yet our fan base didn’t ridicule Vladdy. I used to callout Vladdys flaws often because so many would just let it pass while grilling others and because you could tell the guy could have been a much better player if he rounded out his game. Just like Kyrou and Schenn for that matter. Yet here we are with double standards flying everywhere.

Maybe I am part of the problem playing devils advocate / trying to balance the scales, but it’s hard to listen to one person being held to one standard while another doesn’t have to.

I don't really keep track of who is pro or anti- Kyrou but I know I've got at least one of his biggest haters on ignore. But I'm not basing my opinion on anything besides what I'm seeing in games. When him and Thomas signed those big contracts, we needed them to step up and lead the team. I think everyone can see that Thomas has raised his game this year. He's winning a lot of puck battles, making great plays every night and has established himself as a star.

From what I can see, Kyrou hasn't taken a similar step forward. Has his play away from the puck improved? Sure, to an extent. Most young players need time to become good 200-foot players and Kyrou is getting there. But I won't give him that much credit for hustling to get back, block shots and try to break up plays on defense because every player should do that whether they are a first or fourth line player. So while it is good that he's improved his defensive play, I don't think it makes up for the drop in offense when you consider he's now an $8 million player.

I can see some similarities with Tarasenko, although I never questioned Vladi's drive and competitiveness unlike Kyrou. But when Tarasenko signed his big contact, he had scored 37 goals the year before (just like Kyrou) and followed that up with 40, 39, 33, 33 goals and was considered a top 5 goal scorer in the league until his injury issues. In Kyrou's first season after the big contract his defense may have improved but his offense has taken a step back. I'm not buying the bad luck argument as his finishing ability has been lacking all season long.

I'm not giving up on Kyrou, but I am fairly disappointed that he hasn't taken a bigger step forward this year. He's had some decent stretches, but like I said before. Teams need their best players to come up big from Feb-April and so far he hasn't done that. We need more than 2 goals in 15 games from our top winger when we're pushing for a playoff spot. There are other guys who haven't met expectations, but it doesn't change the fact that Kyrou hasn't either.
 
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