Blue Jays Discussion: Blue Jays acquire TROY TULOWITZKI... did I mention his idol is Derek Jeter?

[dredeye]

Yes because primarily Pentecost' value is not strong right now because of his injuries and the higher they get in our system the higher their value could go.

My comparison for hockey (Not for a specific team) would be getting Crosby for Eichel, Spezza, and a B prospect.

This is a horrible comp but please stop doing hockey comps

 

[Cor]

"Our offense got better, our defense got better and our bullpen got better"

 

[Ruski]

Pretty obvious AA plans to go after starting pitching before friday.

He clearly said they think they are in a position to contend and the outlook has to be the next 2-3 years so no reason to not go after a bigtime pitcher IMO.

Just no rentals please, lets either trade for existing contracts or get permission to negotiate before trade

 

[theaub]

Bryant vs Tulo summarized

1) Tulo helps this team more than Bryant would this year (and next year)
2) Any GM that traded Bryant for Tulo straight up should be immediately fired
3) The package traded for Tulo would certainly not come anywhere close to getting Bryant so I'm not sure what the argument is here in the first place

 

[weems]

Going thru the league and having them advance scout you is a thing.

Just look at KB's monthly splits

May OPS .879
June OPS .805
July OPS .705

Lets see him actually be elite for a few years before you crown him.

 

[Red Piller]

"Our offense got better, our defense got better and our bullpen got better"

Hawkins is a dumpster fire. I would not trust him in a high leverage situation at all. The other 2 are correct though, but its missing "Our starting pitching got better"

 

[tml19]

Pretty obvious they are going all in. Only untouchable IMO is Stroman.

 

[Cor]

Shi Davidi just said on SN that he wouldn't be surprised if the Jays acquire a Left Fielder

 

[Swervin81]

Thats why you have more than 1 good pitcher? Would the Giants win the series without Madbum last year? My point was only that you dont need more hitting, You need pitching.

MadBum carried the team whenever he was out there, no doubt about it. But the Giants had to also win when MadBum wasn't starting.

But it's not like pitching is everything. Look at the Braves, 3 HoFer rotation and 15 straight division titles, but just 1 WS. The A's went overboard on pitching and it didn't work, same with the Phillies after 2008. Funny enough their win came when their rotation was at its weakest with just Hamels.

Playoffs are such a big crapshoot in the grand scheme of things that unlike hockey or basketball, where skill is much more the factor, a crappy wildcard team can easily ride some luck and a BABIP hot streak to a WS (2006 Cardinals) while the opposite could happen to 100+ win juggernaut (2001 Mariners). Rarely does the best team ever win a WS, actually.

 

[tml19]

Shi Davidi just said on SN that he wouldn't be surprised if the Jays acquire a Left Fielder

That would make Pillar our worst hitter which is absolutely INSANE.

 

[Cor]

FWIW Jeff Blair just said he talked to an executive in June, and he said that Alex was going to do something spectacular. Blair apparently asked him if this was it, and the executive said "**** no"

So, if getting Troy Tulowitzki isn't the "something spectacular".... what is

 

[Red Piller]

Going thru the league and having them advance scout you is a thing.

Just look at KB's monthly splits

May OPS .879
June OPS .805
July OPS .705

Lets see him actually be elite for a few years before you crown him.

I understand that. The kid will adjust to it in time, he is still REAL young. He has a chance to drive in 100 runs and hit 30 bombs in his rookie season. But that is besides the point. Like i was saying, Tulo is awesome. I do not disagree. I love him as a player. He is what baseball players shold look like. If you get 2 arms then wecan talk about winning.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

Pitcher controls an entire game or less every 5 days. Batters control at least 4 innings of a game with their bats daily (4 AB's, each controls how the inning will go).

Starting Pitcher controls: <= 9 innings/5 days
Position player controls: >= 20 innings/5 days with the bat

And that's not even taking into account the value of defense, which they have control over on every ball in play. Pitchers are more impactful when they are in and have more impactful control head to head, no doubt, but not enough to make up for over a game's worth of innings that they don't have a single bit of control over in the slightest during off days, and that's just not giving position player D any value.

So by using your logic,

Tulowitzki is hitting .300 and obp is .348 which means hes getting on base 35% of the time. So out of those 20 innings hes actually contributing in 6.5 of them. This doesn't include being left on base.

Lets not forget here that Reyes was hitting .285 with a .322 obp. So at the expense of a huge chunk of prospects, the jays are improving .015/0.26 or in your terms .52 out of 20 innings at the plate, and a few less errors in the field.

OR

Adding a pitcher that can positively affect games against other teams best pitchers AND give the rest of our rotation more favourable match ups and send our current 5 starter to the bullpen.

NOT TO MENTION hes the highest paid player on our team, and a cash strapped/cash stingy rogers media WILL NOT approve spending significant dollars on a top of the line pitcher in free agency.

No matter how you look at it, this is a terrible trade for the bluejays.

 

[Longshot]

Shi Davidi just said on SN that he wouldn't be surprised if the Jays acquire a Left Fielder

And yesterday, and every day before, every single commentator was saying: "Starting pitching, starting pitching, starting pitching..." and the Jays got a shortstop.

Maybe they should just leave it at: "It wouldn't surprise me if the Jays do something else before the deadline..."

 

[hoc123]

Shi Davidi just said on SN that he wouldn't be surprised if the Jays acquire a Left Fielder

Puig for Colobello+. Calling it now.

 

[trellaine201]

FWIW Jeff Blair just said he talked to an executive in June, and he said that Alex was going to do something spectacular.

Blair apparently asked him if this was it, and the executive said "**** no"


So, something big could be coming.

I'm sure it's papelbon, hamels and price . Has to be. Lol

Were still tight on budget. My sense is a rental arm.

 

[Kurtz]

It was a small sample size but Devon Travis wasn't thriving hitting leadoff.

91 PA
.193 BA
. 264 OBP
.313 SLG

Not saying he can't be the answer as a leadoff but it's something worth watching.

He was playing injured when he was leading off.

 

[tml19]

MadBum carried the team whenever he was out there, no doubt about it. But the Giants had to also win when MadBum wasn't starting.

But it's not like pitching is everything. Look at the Braves, 3 HoFer rotation and 15 straight division titles, but just 1 WS. The A's went overboard on pitching and it didn't work, same with the Phillies after 2008. Funny enough their win came when their rotation was at its weakest with just Hamels.

Playoffs are such a big crapshoot in the grand scheme of things that unlike hockey or basketball, where skill is much more the factor, a crappy wildcard team can easily ride some luck and a BABIP hot streak to a WS (2006 Cardinals) while the opposite could happen to 100+ win juggernaut (2001 Mariners). Rarely does the best team ever win a WS, actually.

But you do need 1 ace. You need that guy you go to in a one game scenario. As of now it has to be Buehrle. With no disrespect to him he just doesnt have the stuff to completely shut down offences. If the jays go all in right now I have no issue with that as long as Stro isnt moving. If you have a rotation of the following you have a chance to win every night:

Samardzija/Price
Dickey
Buehrle
Estrada
Hutch

I would consider adding 1 more 3-5 guy into that rotation that give you consistent outings each game to replace the inconstant Hutch.

 

[Swervin81]

Hawkins is a dumpster fire. I would not trust him in a high leverage situation at all. The other 2 are correct though, but its missing "Our starting pitching got better"

I doubt he's any worse than Tepera. He'll just be the garbage mop up guy. His numbers away from Coors also aren't bad at all.

 

[theaub]

I've been pushing since early May that the Jays are going to get Carlos Gomez and I still kinda believe it.

But if we're talking 'something spectacular?' Find it baffling the Reds commentators would outright suggest a Votto trade to Toronto if they were just 100% speculating. I just have no idea how AA fits that in the budget.

Gomez + partially retained (hockey term!) Garza for prospects + Navarro/Saunders to even out salaries a bit would not stun me.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

I'm sure it's papelbon, hamels and price . Has to be. Lol

Were still tight on budget. My sense is a rental arm.

Because Jeff Blare is an insider.

 

[Longshot]

I doubt he's any worse than Tepera. He'll just be the garbage mop up guy. His numbers away from Coors also aren't bad at all.

Wish I could find the link, but saw earlier Hawkins has been pretty dominant since coming back from an arm injury.

Albeit, small sample size. But he does have a veteran track record.

 

[weems]

So by using your logic,

Tulowitzki is hitting .300 and obp is .348 which means hes getting on base 35% of the time. So out of those 20 innings hes actually contributing in 6.5 of them. This doesn't include being left on base.

Lets not forget here that Reyes was hitting .285 with a .322 obp. So at the expense of a huge chunk of prospects, the jays are improving .015/0.26 or in your terms .52 out of 20 innings at the plate, and a few less errors in the field.

OR

Adding a pitcher that can positively affect games against other teams best pitchers AND give the rest of our rotation more favourable match ups and send our current 5 starter to the bullpen.

NOT TO MENTION hes the highest paid player on our team, and a cash strapped/cash stingy rogers media WILL NOT approve spending significant dollars on a top of the line pitcher in free agency.

No matter how you look at it, this is a terrible trade for the bluejays.

You do understand that the power and defense is a thing right?

Few less errors? You ever heard of range or DRS?

Tulo is like +35 or something in saving runs vs Reyes.

 

[hoc123]

FWIW Jeff Blair just said he talked to an executive in June, and he said that Alex was going to do something spectacular. Blair apparently asked him if this was it, and the executive said "**** no"

So, if getting Troy Tulowitzki isn't the "something spectacular".... what is

It would make sense if Ken Rosenthal article was right. He said Rockies started to budge on the Tulowitski trade with the Jay's in July.

 

[Red Piller]

MadBum carried the team whenever he was out there, no doubt about it. But the Giants had to also win when MadBum wasn't starting.

But it's not like pitching is everything. Look at the Braves, 3 HoFer rotation and 15 straight division titles, but just 1 WS. The A's went overboard on pitching and it didn't work, same with the Phillies after 2008. Funny enough their win came when their rotation was at its weakest with just Hamels.

Playoffs are such a big crapshoot in the grand scheme of things that unlike hockey or basketball, where skill is much more the factor, a crappy wildcard team can easily ride some luck and a BABIP hot streak to a WS (2006 Cardinals) while the opposite could happen to 100+ win juggernaut (2001 Mariners). Rarely does the best team ever win a WS, actually.

Agreed. Baseball is somewhat a luck driven sport. You have to play the percentages though. And the percentages are better when you have good pitching. When your best pitcher is Mark Beuhrle, you are in serious trouble.