Blake Extended for 3 Years

[Raccoon Jesus]

I agree that the kids were mishandled in various degrees.

I also think that getting in the playoffs you do what you can to win. the Kings could have beat the Oilers. I knew they were toast after game 6 and McDavid told Kane to shut up about his 7 goals. McDavid stepped up and stole the series in my eyes. I doubt anyone would be complaining about rookies tho had the Kings advanced deeper.

I don't know when the next playoff opportunity comes up. Could be next year, could be three years from now. I doubt any org says lets not make the playoffs so our rookies can develop better.

The Kings have holes but some of these prospects need to step up and and make it a no brainer on TMac's part. The Kings seem happy to go with the Kempe model of development but I'm nervous about our top prospects now. Not even sure it's development over wrong picks. Byfield has not shown that he can dominate and produce against higher competition. Talent is there but if he never produces that is going to be a big miss. Don't get me started on Turcotte.

Sure, you do what you can to win. The kids weren't ready for the playoffs because the organization did everything they could to avoid getting them big playing time at all junctures. There was always an excuse.

No, no org goes out of their way to tank themselves so rookies develop better...but rebuilding/retooling teams have no problem getting big playing time for their rookies. Hell, competitive teams use their rookies better than the Kings. Acting like giving Byfield/Vilardi/Kaliyev more time would have tanked the season is ignorant given you have a 1C out there playing 26 minutes a game losing the 5v5 battle.

The prospects have made it a no brainer on Tmac's part. Kaliyev was your leading PP goal scorer and the guy was barely getting 9 minutes a game vs. the likes of the Ducks and Hawks.

This board makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills with the constant going to bat for the idea that high-octane rookies getting 8 minutes is 'normal' and that any team would bench their leading PP scorer, and that your #5 OA pick shouldn't even get PP time in the AHL.

There is slim-to-no justification for how the offensive kids were used all year. Their usage in the playoffs was just the end of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Sure, you do what you can to win. The kids weren't ready for the playoffs because the organization did everything they could to avoid getting them big playing time at all junctures. There was always an excuse.

No, no org goes out of their way to tank themselves so rookies develop better...but rebuilding/retooling teams have no problem getting big playing time for their rookies. Hell, competitive teams use their rookies better than the Kings. Acting like giving Byfield/Vilardi/Kaliyev more time would have tanked the season is ignorant given you have a 1C out there playing 26 minutes a game losing the 5v5 battle.

The prospects have made it a no brainer on Tmac's part. Kaliyev was your leading PP goal scorer and the guy was barely getting 9 minutes a game vs. the likes of the Ducks and Hawks.

This board makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills with the constant going to bat for the idea that high-octane rookies getting 8 minutes is 'normal' and that any team would bench their leading PP scorer, and that your #5 OA pick shouldn't even get PP time in the AHL.

There is slim-to-no justification for how the offensive kids were used all year. Their usage in the playoffs was just the end of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Me beating a dead horse, but which high octane rookies are you talking about? Byfield? You can't see how him coming off of an ankle injury and then covid, might make them a bit more cautious?

you are talking about Kaliyev? He needed that time on the 4the line.....that is what rounded him out, since then he's been up and down the lineup.....

Other than that, which rookies?

 

[Statto]

Sure, you do what you can to win. The kids weren't ready for the playoffs because the organization did everything they could to avoid getting them big playing time at all junctures. There was always an excuse.

No, no org goes out of their way to tank themselves so rookies develop better...but rebuilding/retooling teams have no problem getting big playing time for their rookies. Hell, competitive teams use their rookies better than the Kings. Acting like giving Byfield/Vilardi/Kaliyev more time would have tanked the season is ignorant given you have a 1C out there playing 26 minutes a game losing the 5v5 battle.

The prospects have made it a no brainer on Tmac's part. Kaliyev was your leading PP goal scorer and the guy was barely getting 9 minutes a game vs. the likes of the Ducks and Hawks.

This board makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills with the constant going to bat for the idea that high-octane rookies getting 8 minutes is 'normal' and that any team would bench their leading PP scorer, and that your #5 OA pick shouldn't even get PP time in the AHL.

There is slim-to-no justification for how the offensive kids were used all year. Their usage in the playoffs was just the end of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Exactl. I kept thing big picture and could see an argument for being patient but in the end they were too cautious (putting it kindly). You’ll recall we disagreed on some of this earlier in the season but I can’t defend the overall approach and outcome we saw. Kaliyev was the prime example, they rounded out his game which I agreed with but then not using him in a bigger role seemed to defeat the entire objective of rounding out him game (so he could play in the top 6/1st pp unit without being a defensive liability).

 

[Schmooley]

Acting like giving Byfield/Vilardi/Kaliyev more time would have tanked the season is ignorant given you have a 1C out there playing 26 minutes a game losing the 5v5 battle.

This is my thing with it also. Its not like they were sitting because the veterans were playing amazing. Kopitar was a minus 5 or 6 that series and scored one goal. He was so slow.
Iafallo lost every battle and foot race. AA had his long leash to not play defense. Brown didnt do much. Lizotte didnt look so good. None of these guys were playing so well that their high picks should be sat in favor of. That last goal where Durzi was complaining to the ref was something else. Tmac was able to make a line change and chose to leave brown lizotte and aa out against mcdavid. We all knew that goal was coming. They got smoked and instead of being benched for bad defensive play they were out there again at the end of the game.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

This is my thing with it also. Its not like they were sitting because the veterans were playing amazing. Kopitar was a minus 5 or 6 that series and scored one goal. He was so slow.
Iafallo lost every battle and foot race. AA had his long leash to not play defense. Brown didnt do much. Lizotte didnt look so good. None of these guys were playing so well that their high picks should be sat in favor of. That last goal where Durzi was complaining to the ref was something else. Tmac was able to make a line change and chose to leave brown lizotte and aa out against mcdavid. We all knew that goal was coming. They got smoked and instead of being benched for bad defensive play they were out there again at the end of the game.

True but there was that one game in December....when the kids just were putrid.....giveaways, no effort, lost.....

That's about on the same level as your post.....when you look at things in a microcosm, you generally miss the bigger picture, RJs post wasn't about the playoffs.....

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Come on dude, I’ve given the organisation loads of ‘benefit of the doubt’ all year but you really have lost all objectivity. Byfield and Bjornföt were not playing prominent roles late on and sitting Toby as much as they did (a couple of games is fine) could have a long term negative effect on his development. The usage of Byfield hasn’t helped him either. Both should be significant pieces going forward and I can only hope that they haven’t damaged the long terms aims of winning the cup by making the play-offs this year.

Two of our key prospects spent too much time on the outside looking in and whilst they may have gained ‘something’ from being around the team, playing will have given them more. Add Vilardi into that because they’ve signalled that he’s pretty much done here and tanked any remaining value he had as an asset. I’ve said all they way through the season that making the play offs would be great but that it shouldn't be done at the cost of long term develoment goals. I also think Peterson should have at least had a start for the same reason. This team never had the chance of a deep run, Edmonton were by far our best matchup and it’s been a development opportunity badly missed for a number of players. Sitting Spence was equally baffling to me.

Even if you don’t agree if you can’t see that it’s at least a valid perspective then you are being very blinkered. I say that as someone fully behind Blake.

This is what I saw this past season: Every single one of our top prospects given an opportunity to play in the big league...when they struggled, they were reeled back (Byfield, Vilardi, Kupari at times, etc)...when they flourished, they never left the lineup (Kaliyev, Durzi) -- my opinion is that the org is very caution about damaging the confidence of these young players, you might look at it differently. But at the end of the day, they have all been given the opportunity. And guess what, they will be given an even bigger opportunity as they age and develop...crazy concept, huh?

 

[LAKings88]

Sure, you do what you can to win. The kids weren't ready for the playoffs because the organization did everything they could to avoid getting them big playing time at all junctures. There was always an excuse.

No, no org goes out of their way to tank themselves so rookies develop better...but rebuilding/retooling teams have no problem getting big playing time for their rookies. Hell, competitive teams use their rookies better than the Kings. Acting like giving Byfield/Vilardi/Kaliyev more time would have tanked the season is ignorant given you have a 1C out there playing 26 minutes a game losing the 5v5 battle.

The prospects have made it a no brainer on Tmac's part. Kaliyev was your leading PP goal scorer and the guy was barely getting 9 minutes a game vs. the likes of the Ducks and Hawks.

This board makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills with the constant going to bat for the idea that high-octane rookies getting 8 minutes is 'normal' and that any team would bench their leading PP scorer, and that your #5 OA pick shouldn't even get PP time in the AHL.

There is slim-to-no justification for how the offensive kids were used all year. Their usage in the playoffs was just the end of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Bjornfot was a liability toward the end of the season when they were scrapping to get in. He was scratched and barely played another game. Byfield has done jack shit and looked lost in the playoffs. Kaliyev keeps getting touted as this great scorer but I'm not convinced. He is Toffoli 2.0 in my eyes but honestly not as good overall. The org has said he will be moved up, we will see if that holds true. Brown is no longer around to eat up minutes.

As soon as they signed Danault and RV the rookie minutes/roll shrunk. Byfield has almost no production in the times he has been allotted. Will that change with more time? Better wingers? I'm not sold. Yes that dude needs to come in and start lighting it up. Vilardi has warts and he is doing everything asked but again, if he's not producing he doesn't add much else. This isn't an Ottawa team with no established vets and no choice but to insert rookies.

I'm sorry but these Kings prospects aren't world beaters. Byfield has the tools and I won't call him a bust but aside from a flash here and there I'm scared as a Kings fan. I want massive improvement next year.

The highly touted center depth has all but dissipated really. They have mostly all been shifted to wing. Hell Helenius will likely see center before Turcotte.

How many legit spots are even open next year without even bringing in a scoring winger?

 

[Gjwrams]

The one thing I was frustrated with was the handling of the kids during playoff time. For them to not play in the Kings or Reign playoff runs was a big miss. I’m not a huge believer in experience by osmosis.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

The one thing I was frustrated with was the handling of the kids during playoff time. For them to not play in the Kings or Reign playoff runs was a big miss. I’m not a huge believer in experience by osmosi.

Yes, they definitely should have been playing for the Reign...I'd still like to understand why that didn't happen.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Bjornfot was a liability toward the end of the season when they were scrapping to get in. He was scratched and barely played another game. Byfield has done jack shit and looked lost in the playoffs. Kaliyev keeps getting touted as this great scorer but I'm not convinced. He is Toffoli 2.0 in my eyes but honestly not as good overall. The org has said he will be moved up, we will see if that holds true. Brown is no longer around to eat up minutes.

As soon as they signed Danault and RV the rookie minutes/roll shrunk. Byfield has almost no production in the times he has been allotted. Will that change with more time? Better wingers? I'm not sold. Yes that dude needs to come in and start lighting it up. Vilardi has warts and he is doing everything asked but again, if he's not producing he doesn't add much else. This isn't an Ottawa team with no established vets and no choice but to insert rookies.

I'm sorry but these Kings prospects aren't world beaters. Byfield has the tools and I won't call him a bust but aside from a flash here and there I'm scared as a Kings fan. I want massive improvement next year.

The highly touted center depth has all but dissipated really. They have mostly all been shifted to wing. Hell Helenius will likely see center before Turcotte.

How many legit spots are even open next year without even bringing in a scoring winger?

So, how about the first 60 games? You addressed the end of the season and the playoffs again, but there was no excuse that it got to that point with 'unproven' rookies.

And again I'll cite the point that in games he's played over 15 TOI Byfield is PPG. No one is doing shit with piddly 8 minute games off the PP. Give the scorers time to score and you'll reap the rewards; keep up the self-perpetuating cycle of "the kids aren't ready so we can't play them because the kids aren't ready so we can't play them because the kids aren't ready" and we'll end up right back here or worse in 365 days.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This is what I saw this past season: Every single one of our top prospects given an opportunity to play in the big league...when they struggled, they were reeled back (Byfield, Vilardi, Kupari at times, etc)...when they flourished, they never left the lineup (Kaliyev, Durzi) -- my opinion is that the org is very caution about damaging the confidence of these young players, you might look at it differently. But at the end of the day, they have all been given the opportunity. And guess what, they will be given an even bigger opportunity as they age and develop...crazy concept, huh?

Grundstrom scored a goal in 3 consecutive games and was rewarded by being scratched.

Byfield had a 3 point game then promptly had his icetime lowered and was removed from the PP completely.

Spence went from playing around 20 minutes a night to completely benched for Troy freakin Stetcher.

Other than the guys who couldn't be pulled because we needed to ice a roster, the vast majority of guys were on such an incredibly short leash, even Jordan Weal was concerned for them.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Spence went from playing around 20 minutes a night to completely benched for Troy freakin Stetcher.

Is that the same Troy lolololol Stecher that responded to that opportunity with 2 goals and an assist in next two games? What a dumb move that turned out to be...Just ask Sol.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Is that the same Troy lolololol Stecher that responded to that opportunity with 2 goals and an assist in next two games? What a dumb move that turned out to be...Just ask Sol.

You can't even follow your own thoughts?

Her'es the post I responded to:

This is what I saw this past season: Every single one of our top prospects given an opportunity to play in the big league...when they struggled, they were reeled back (Byfield, Vilardi, Kupari at times, etc)...when they flourished, they never left the lineup (Kaliyev, Durzi) -- my opinion is that the org is very caution about damaging the confidence of these young players, you might look at it differently. But at the end of the day, they have all been given the opportunity. And guess what, they will be given an even bigger opportunity as they age and develop...crazy concept, huh?

Stetcher is a 28 year old UFA.

Spence is a 20 year old first year pro.

When you're done undermining yourself, maybe we can chat honestly.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

You can't even follow your own thoughts?

Her'es the post I responded to:



Stetcher is a 28 year old UFA.

Spence is a 20 year old first year pro.

When you're done undermining yourself, maybe we can chat honestly.

If you can't understand the difference between playoffs and reg season, I can't help you. Once the playoffs started, it was no longer about focusing on development, it was about winning.

 

[BigKing]

So, how about the first 60 games? You addressed the end of the season and the playoffs again, but there was no excuse that it got to that point with 'unproven' rookies.

And again I'll cite the point that in games he's played over 15 TOI Byfield is PPG. No one is doing shit with piddly 8 minute games off the PP. Give the scorers time to score and you'll reap the rewards; keep up the self-perpetuating cycle of "the kids aren't ready so we can't play them because the kids aren't ready so we can't play them because the kids aren't ready" and we'll end up right back here or worse in 365 days.

I'm not a T-Mac apologist and this all really comes back to the NHL not being a developmental league and these guys coach to win. So with that preface, I'll say Byfield earned his 15 minutes + of TOI in those games and he mostly deserved the sub-10 or healthy scratches in the others.

Of course, he only had three games of over 15 minutes and he scored three points in the Nashville game so that's where the PPG comes from.

He simply wasn't as good as needed and they were pushing for the playoffs. Much like Vilardi last season, they could have trotted him out there in 2021 and let him fumble around all over the place for 15 minutes a game since they were gunning for another lottery pick. They didn't though and, instead, they tried to do it in the midst of a playoff push and he simply was not ready for prime time.

This is why I was saying like 15 - 20 games in to this season for him that this summer is a real big deal for him because it was obvious it wasn't happening for him this year. Come in and improve even more over his TC last season, avoid injury, and earn a spot on at least PP2 to start the year. I truly believe that it will be there for the taking and the organization wants him to take it, i.e. Todd will give it to him as long as he isn't a turnover machine on every shift like he currently is. While every point matters in the end, there isn't as much emphasis put on two points in October as there are in March. He'll probably have a longer leash to start next season but, honestly, he actually had a long leash this season compared to his actual play on the ice.

We can say Durzi and Spence wound up playing big minutes out of necessity but it is also because they earned the playing time. There was necessity for that 3C position and nobody could grab it.

 

[bland]

If you can't understand the difference between playoffs and reg season, I can't help you. Once the playoffs started, it was no longer about focusing on development, it was about winning.

Never was focused on development, which is the entire crux of the point. This team was never going to win anything, the prospects took a back seat to veterans so the Cup Core could get their fifth last chance.

Its obvious stuff, not sure why you keep fighting this point.

It meant nothing whatsoever to have Stetcher and Athanasiou play in a lost cause while the organization was icing two playoff teams without time for Byfield, Vilardi, Bjornfot and Spence, and limited time for Kaliyev and Kupari. Sure, they put up some points. Big deal, the opportunity for growth was curtailed to try and win something unwinnable - the very definition of a black hole team.

 

[LAKings88]

So, how about the first 60 games? You addressed the end of the season and the playoffs again, but there was no excuse that it got to that point with 'unproven' rookies.

And again I'll cite the point that in games he's played over 15 TOI Byfield is PPG. No one is doing shit with piddly 8 minute games off the PP. Give the scorers time to score and you'll reap the rewards; keep up the self-perpetuating cycle of "the kids aren't ready so we can't play them because the kids aren't ready so we can't play them because the kids aren't ready" and we'll end up right back here or worse in 365 days.

I didn’t say he wasn’t ready I said he wasn’t very good. Not good enough to take minutes away from Kopi and Danault. He has flashes that make me think he could get there, but overall, he over stick handles and loses the puck a lot. The world juniors he was largely irrelevant except for one game. That’s how I feel he has been this year. I hope the kid puts it together. I still don’t know what he is. He seems like a pass first not too physical dangler.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I didn’t say he wasn’t ready I said he wasn’t very good. Not good enough to take minutes away from Kopi and Danault. He has flashes that make me think he could get there, but overall, he over stick handles and loses the puck a lot. The world juniors he was largely irrelevant except for one game. That’s how I feel he has been this year. I hope the kid puts it together. I still don’t know what he is. He seems like a pass first not too physical dangler.

He mostly certainly was good enough to eat into their minutes--not necessarily as a 1C or 2C but Kopitar didn't need 25 minutes a game, especially when he was getting caved in nightly. It would have been easy to give Byfield 3-5 more minutes a game, particularly with PP time--and no one can pretend he wasn't good enough to get some exposure to a historically bad PP.

Maybe he would have put it together a bit more by the end of the season, maybe he wouldn't have--but you're not going to find out by giving him barely time to get by. In a world where Raymond got nearly 1500 minutes, Mercer nearly 1400, Caufield nearly 1200, Lundell over 1000, Newhook 960, Ryan freakin McLeod over 900...the Kings couldn't even find Byfield 500. You're not going to learn much about a supposedly high-end player that way.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Never was focused on development, which is the entire crux of the point. This team was never going to win anything, the prospects took a back seat to veterans so the Cup Core could get their fifth last chance.

Its obvious stuff, not sure why you keep fighting this point.

It meant nothing whatsoever to have Stetcher and Athanasiou play in a lost cause while the organization was icing two playoff teams without time for Byfield, Vilardi, Bjornfot and Spence, and limited time for Kaliyev and Kupari. Sure, they put up some points. Big deal, the opportunity for growth was curtailed to try and win something unwinnable - the very definition of a black hole team.

Can you give me one example of an NHL team that put primary focus on development rather than winning during a playoff run?

The org iced what they thought was the best team they had access to. The end.

 

[Schmooley]

I didn’t say he wasn’t ready I said he wasn’t very good. Not good enough to take minutes away from Kopi and Danault.

Kopitar wasnt good gimme a break. He played nearly 25 minutes a night. Lost matchups and was a minus player. He was 140th in goals its not like he was lighting it up and no one could touch him.

 

[kenito7]

Kopitar wasnt good gimme a break. He played nearly 25 minutes a night. Lost matchups and was a minus player. He was 140th in goals its not like he was lighting it up and no one could touch him.

Kopitar is still light years ahead of Byfield. He didn't even come close to 25 minutes a game(20:46). He was a minus 6 while playing the Mcdavids and MacKinnons, Byfield was minus 7 playing against 3rd and 4th liners. Kopitar won 57% of his faceoffs Byfield won 45% of his. Who would you rather take the important faceoffs? Kopitar is getting old and should give back some minutes but not to Byfield at this time. Byfield should have been getting 15+ minutes a game at Ontario when it became obvious that he is not yet ready for the NHL.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Kopitar is still light years ahead of Byfield. He didn't even come close to 25 minutes a game(20:46). He was a minus 6 while playing the Mcdavids and MacKinnons, Byfield was minus 7 playing against 3rd and 4th liners. Kopitar won 57% of his faceoffs Byfield won 45% of his. Who would you rather take the important faceoffs? Kopitar is getting old and should give back some minutes but not to Byfield at this time. Byfield should have been getting 15+ minutes a game at Ontario when it became obvious that he is not yet ready for the NHL.

You are preaching to a group that suffers from severe delusions.

For example, we could have a PP starring Kucherov, Stamkos, Hedman and they’d still be convinced it would suck due to the coaching.

 

[Schmooley]

Kopitar is still light years ahead of Byfield. He didn't even come close to 25 minutes a game(20:46). He was a minus 6 while playing the Mcdavids and MacKinnons, Byfield was minus 7 playing against 3rd and 4th liners. Kopitar won 57% of his faceoffs Byfield won 45% of his. Who would you rather take the important faceoffs? Kopitar is getting old and should give back some minutes but not to Byfield at this time. Byfield should have been getting 15+ minutes a game at Ontario when it became obvious that he is not yet ready for the NHL.

I was talking about the entire season. By the time the playoffs came it was too late to change. Kopitar had more than 20 minutes a game in the regular season for sure.

You are preaching to a group that suffers from severe delusions.

For example, we could have a PP starring Kucherov, Stamkos, Hedman and they’d still be convinced it would suck due to the coaching.

What are you talking about? The Kings dont have any of those players. They have Iafallo on the power and Kopitar on the half wall.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I was talking about the entire season. By the time the playoffs came it was too late to change. Kopitar had more than 20 minutes a game in the regular season for sure.


What are you talking about? The Kings dont have any of those players. They have Iafallo on the power and Kopitar on the half wall.

Umm, exactly.

 

[kenito7]

I was talking about the entire season. By the time the playoffs came it was too late to change. Kopitar had more than 20 minutes a game in the regular season for sure.


What are you talking about? The Kings dont have any of those players. They have Iafallo on the power and Kopitar on the half wall.

20:46 during the regular season 21:56 during the playoffs. I know there were several games where he played more minutes but that was his average.