Black Myth: Wukong - New game from Game Science

[PeteWorrell]

I thought this was a joke until I saw it in the “cons” section of a review. Absolutely wild

That's because many game "journalists" are actually activists. They don't even like video games. They just want a platform to discuss politics.

 

[Blitzkrug]

That's because many game "journalists" are actually activists. They don't even like video games. They just want a platform to discuss politics.

Yeah, i will fully admit there are some situations where talking about diversity isn't a bad thing but decrying a game based on chinese mythology/folklore for not being diverse is...a take.

This is basically the reverse of people bitching and moaning that Tales of Kenzera was too "left" because it had African history experts (read; black people) working on a game heavily based on African mythology.

 

[Shareefruck]

I haven't read too deeply into this, but to push back somewhat against at least the surface level reading of the anti-woke outrage, I don't recall the actual original Chinese mythology/folklore (which I partly grew up with) being overwhelmingly male dominated or had women relegated to more disposable roles. There were a decent number of significant female characters (I recall the shapeshifting skeleton being one of the more spine-chillingly depicted villains, and one of the few who actually posed a threat to the absurdly overpowered protagonists), some of the more powerful and influential characters in the story were women (Guanyin and Princess Iron Fan in particular), and according to the review, it sounds like this is informed/complicated by controversies surrounding potentially misogynistic takes by the developers themselves?

It's worth noting the game is based on the novel, Journey To The West, which does consist of a few important female characters. To not include any women or to only include a few in an adaptation meant for a modern audience is quite disconcerting.

While this doesn't take away from the exhilaration and fun of boss fights themselves, women fans of soulslike games may have a different perspective, especially given that, according to reports, the developer also suggested that women aren't capable of enjoying or being skilled at these types of games.

I don't know if that's actually accurate, but if so, that seems like a fair enough point of criticism, no?

At the very least, it does kind of sound like the choice was made out of personal bias/comfort rather than adherence to historical source material. That might still be defensible, but the "based on ancient mythology/folklore" angle of this seems pretty irrelevant.

Edit: Reading some conflicting reports. Some are saying that the supposed history of sexism was mistranslated out of context, but that doesn't seem to explain a lot of the stuff mentioned in this (those sure don't sound like proverbs/idioms being mistaken for literal statements, plus they're saying that it was Chinese women who made the complaints):

Black Myth: Wukong Developer Accused Of Sexist, Unprofessional Work Culture

Game Science, the developer behind Black Myth: Wukong, faces further accusations of fostering a sexist, unprofessional work environment.

www.thegamer.com

 

[Blitzkrug]

Never have a rooted for a day 1 patch to be magical enough to fix everything as i have with this.

 

[x Tame Impala]

“To not include any women or to only include a few in an adaptation meant for a modern audience is quite disconcerting.

While this doesn't take away from the exhilaration and fun of boss fights themselves, women fans of soulslike games may have a different perspective, especially given that, according to reports, the developer also suggested that women aren't capable of enjoying or being skilled at these types of games.“

This is so exhausting. Not every moment of entertainment mediums need to be ultra inclusive. Nothing needs to be for everyone. It’s ridiculous. Especially in today’s culture where there is PLENTY of representation for all sorts across all forms of media, let people do what they want. A fun game is a fun game regardless of representation.

 

[Shareefruck]

“To not include any women or to only include a few in an adaptation meant for a modern audience is quite disconcerting.

While this doesn't take away from the exhilaration and fun of boss fights themselves, women fans of soulslike games may have a different perspective, especially given that, according to reports, the developer also suggested that women aren't capable of enjoying or being skilled at these types of games.“

This is so exhausting. Not every moment of entertainment mediums need to be ultra inclusive. Nothing needs to be for everyone. It’s ridiculous. Especially in today’s culture where there is PLENTY of representation for all sorts across all forms of media, let people do what they want. A fun game is a fun game regardless of representation.

I don't know if he actually said that, but is that really what you got out of the bolded if he did?

I think we can acknowledge both that a game can be fun and worthwhile AND that an attitude/belief can be kind of shitty in a way that can potentially influence it in a negative (but not necessarily disqualifying) way.

I'm all for non-inclusiveness and uncompromising creative visions that spit in the face of dumb/irrational oversensitivity when they're innocuous (or even literally thoughtless) or when there's a solid reason for it (like the art being prioritized), but in cases where it potentially really is just a reflection of a creative's bigoted thinking, I don't think that should escape criticism or commentary.

I don't particularly feel strongly about it, myself (and I am very intrigued by the game regardless), but I think it seems fair to call a spade a spade. Not like it's being cancelled or anything (as far as I'm aware).

 

[Blitzkrug]

Digital Foundry, probably the best in the business for analysis on the technical side of the industry had one of their guys do a frame by frame analysis of that little blurb of video that leaked. A bit hefty but here's a summary I found of their thoughts on their DF weekly podcast;

The game is targeting 60, but doesn't necessarily hold to it, there are long segments in the 50's, and when a lot of alpha effects appear on screen it can drop into the 30's and 40's. If they are not using low-frame compensation, PS5 would not work with VRR in those drops.

More worrying though is that he sees a few artifacts in the video that cannot be ascribed to simple compression artifacts, but instead look very similar to artifacts he's seen testing AMD's FSR 3 frame generation.

AMD specifically does not recommend devs use frame gen to go from 30 to 60, it is more a technology that's best used to go from 60 to 120, but if this game uses frame-gen, it does appear to be going from 30 to 60, and it's possible during the drops into the 30's and 40's that the native frame-rate is even lower, in the 20's.

The bad thing is, using frame gen to go from 30 to 60, you're going to have a lot of extra artifacts and things that just "don't look quite right".

This could be another example of an Unreal Engine 5 title that is really pushing current-gen systems perhaps over their intended limits, but the real test will be when they can finally get their hands on the game in a day or two.

Variable frame rate is a killer in games like this. Dragon's Dogma 2 got hit hard by critics for similar issues and if I'm not mistaken it still runs like ass on console. Though for different reasons for how NPCs are designed as opposed to this appearing to be too much for the current gen to handle.

 

[Osprey]

The game looks gorgeous but requirements on PC are quite high.

The developers released a free benchmark tool on Steam last week. PC users might want to install and run it before deciding whether to buy the game.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

I'm a bit troubled by the reports of performance issues, but I've been waiting and looking forward to this one for too long not to pick it up Day 1. I'll see if I experience some of the same issues and can work through them.

As for the social commentary stuff, I don't really care enough to invest myself too much in the back and forth. Obviously Chinese culture has much different values, some things may be lost in translation, or what have you. I just want to focus on the game, personally, in this instance.

 

[x Tame Impala]

FWIW the list of “prohibitive topics” the Devs issued when reviewing the game is equally ridiculous. Everything is fair game, it’s up to customers to determine if the review topics are relevant/valid or not.

 

[aleshemsky83]

Digital Foundry, probably the best in the business for analysis on the technical side of the industry had one of their guys do a frame by frame analysis of that little blurb of video that leaked. A bit hefty but here's a summary I found of their thoughts on their DF weekly podcast;


Variable frame rate is a killer in games like this. Dragon's Dogma 2 got hit hard by critics for similar issues and if I'm not mistaken it still runs like ass on console. Though for different reasons for how NPCs are designed as opposed to this appearing to be too much for the current gen to handle.

I’d love a 40 fps mode like horizon and ratchet and clank had for 120 Hz displays

 

[Osprey]

It looks like another game that doesn't justify the huge performance hit for RT. In most of the comparisons, I barely see a difference, and in a few where I see one, I kind of prefer how it looks without RT. Of course, I'm saying this as someone whose GPU can't handle the game with full RT on, but it's not pushing me to upgrade to one that can, either.

 

[Mikeaveli]

This game has 1.4 million players on Steam right now. That's the 4th highest peak of any game and the highest single player game ever. For reference, Elden Ring peaked at 950k and Baldur's Gate 3 peaked at 875k. I had no idea this game was this hyped.

It looks like yet another game that doesn't justify the huge performance hit for RT. In most of the comparisons, I barely see any difference, and in a few where I see a clear difference, I kind of prefer how it looks without RT. Of course, I'm saying this as someone whose GPU can't handle this game with full RT on, but it's also not convincing me that I need to upgrade sooner rather than later to one that can.

There isn't a big difference because the game is using ray traced GI even with Full RT off. "Full RT" in this game is equivalent to the path tracing modes in Cyberpunk and Alan Wake 2.

 

[Osprey]

There isn't a big difference because the game is using ray traced GI even with Full RT off. "Full RT" in this game is equivalent to the path tracing modes in Cyberpunk and Alan Wake 2.

Yeah, I'm familiar with software Lumen and how good it is. Partly due to that, most UE5 games so far don't look too different with RT on or off and I was just remarking that this one appears similar, even despite the path tracing addition.

 

[Shareefruck]

This game has 1.4 million players on Steam right now. That's the 4th highest peak of any game and the highest single player game ever. For reference, Elden Ring peaked at 950k and Baldur's Gate 3 peaked at 875k. I had no idea this game was this hyped.

Probably the China effect? Journey to the West is huge, and it's probably the country's first AAA game, so it's highly anticipated there especially. Do they still use Steam?

 

[aleshemsky83]

Probably the China effect? Journey to the West is huge, and it's probably the country's first AAA game, so it's highly anticipated there especially. Do they still use Steam?

Steamcharts showing Black Myth Wukong at 1.5 million concurrent players, which is probably a record for single player games, this is not getting nearly as much hype in the west as some other games so I'm sure its chinese players comprising a good amount of those users. I think Steam is over there but its a heavily cut down version.

 

[Oogie Boogie]

Played for about an hour last night, and the game is absolutely BEAUTIFUL, holy moly.
Combat seems alright so far, but I really love the graphics.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Any word how it runs on console?

 

[Dubi Doo]

I'm a bit troubled by the reports of performance issues, but I've been waiting and looking forward to this one for too long not to pick it up Day 1. I'll see if I experience some of the same issues and can work through them.

As for the social commentary stuff, I don't really care enough to invest myself too much in the back and forth. Obviously Chinese culture has much different values, some things may be lost in translation, or what have you. I just want to focus on the game, personally, in this instance.

The social media junkies will be the only ones getting riled up about this. It's funny, deleting Twitter takes a whole bunch of venom out of someone's blood as does avoiding commenting on Reddit yet people still participate on platform largely full of hot takes and hot heads.

Played for about an hour last night, and the game is absolutely BEAUTIFUL, holy moly.
Combat seems alright so far, but I really love the graphics.

Are you on PC or console? Also, any games that are comparable?

 

[x Tame Impala]

The social media junkies will be the only ones getting riled up about this. It's funny, deleting Twitter takes a whole bunch of venom out of someone's blood as does avoiding commenting on Reddit yet people still participate on platform largely full of hot takes and hot heads.


Are you on PC or console? Also, any games that are comparable?

I’ve thankfully never had Twitter but Reddit in particular is awful for any sort of discourse. It’s good for some updates on things you like but that’s about it. Honestly we’re all really lucky for HF Boards. This forum is a fantastic place for discussion on tons of topics.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

The social media junkies will be the only ones getting riled up about this. It's funny, deleting Twitter takes a whole bunch of venom out of someone's blood as does avoiding commenting on Reddit yet people still participate on platform largely full of hot takes and hot heads.


Are you on PC or console? Also, any games that are comparable?

Yep, I got rid of twitter a few years ago and I don't miss it lol.

 

[Shareefruck]

Probably just a very tentative nitpick, but after watching just the intro bit, how the story works so far really makes me wish they instead just did a game about the original story from beginning to end, personally. It's a little awkward how it heavily references it/tries to rekindle certain beats, and is written like it expects you to know the full story going into it, and kind of artificially bends over backwards to put you back into a similar situation after those conflicts had already resolved. I don't really know what's going on with the new protagonist, but if it's either reincarnation or some random monkey who just HAPPENS to be able to do all the same stuff and retraces some of those steps, that's a little eye-rolling.

Maybe the issue with doing the original story, though, is that the largest market for it is in China, and people there have already heard the story repeated a million times.

Kind of feel like the novelty would still be there, though (it's certainly never been done in a game of this scale/quality, and honestly, I don't think any media adaptation of it has looked as cool/convincing/authentic anyways), and doing the original story would still give you the opportunity to do this as a sequel afterwards anyways.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Probably just a very tentative nitpick, but after watching just the intro bit, how the story works so far really makes me wish they instead just did a game about the original story from beginning to end, personally. It's a little awkward how it heavily references it/tries to rekindle certain beats, and is written like it expects you to know the full story going into it, and kind of artificially bends over backwards to put you back into a similar situation after those conflicts had already resolved. I don't really know what's going on with the new protagonist, but if it's either reincarnation or some random monkey who just HAPPENS to be able to do all the same stuff and retraces some of those steps, that's a little eye-rolling.

Maybe the issue with doing the original story, though, is that the largest market for it is in China, and people there have already heard the story repeated a million times.

Kind of feel like the novelty would still be there, though (it's certainly never been done in a game of this scale/quality, and honestly, I don't think any media adaptation of it has looked as cool/convincing/authentic anyways), and doing the original story would still give you the opportunity to do this as a sequel afterwards anyways.

How familiar with the original story do I need to be in order to understand what's going on in the game?

 

[Shareefruck]

How familiar with the original story do I need to be in order to understand what's going on in the game?

I only watched the intro so I can't give a definitive answer for that of course (I've read reviews saying the same thing though). But it kind of throws you right into it and gives you just enough "as you know" exposition to give you some sense of what's happening, but it's one of those things where those events can sound so outlandish and random/convoluted without context, as well as being easy to miss.

It's the type of thing where it would certainly help to have some idea of past lore, I think.

 

[Shareefruck]

Actually, I'll just outline the basic context/premise here (enough to follow the intro scene) for anyone interested:

Journey to the West was basically about a Buddhist monk who helped reform three would-be-villains who were punished by the gods for their crimes by being assigned to be the monk's bodyguards on this epic journey that would result in them becoming "buddhas" themselves. One's a bandit, one's a love-sick borderline sex predator, and one is Wukong, who's basically this all-powerful somewhat Homelander-esque (well, a carefree/playful version) child-brained ego-maniac/troublemaker who just wants the freedom to do whatever he wants and can't be stopped because he becomes so over-powered and immortal (that's why his dialogue sometimes sounds villainous-- it's like his "Id" leaking out). A "slave crown" with the ability to activate headaches is given to the Monk (who has no physical abilities) in order to prevent Wukong from rebelling against his assignment (this makes an appearance in the intro of Black Myth with no explanation). The game takes place after their journey succeeds.

Before all this happens, in the prologue of the original story, Wukong becomes the king of the normal monkeys and mischiefs his way towards becoming progressively more powerful/immortal (by eating/stealing things that grant him these abilities), to the point where the celestial gods take notice and become concerned about him being a threat to world order. So they keep him under their thumb/out of trouble by giving him god-like empty titles that nobody takes seriously (just to keep him occupied in heaven, away from doing anything catastrophic to the world). After he realizes this and gets fed up with their rules and manipulation, he throws the mother of all temper tantrums over it, and it escalates until eventually he goes on a one-man-war against the entire celestial forces (with his monkeys getting hurt in the crossfire-- he taught them to talk/fight, btw, otherwise they'd be normal monkeys). This is the event that he gets punished for with the journey.

It looks like in the intro of Black Myth, history repeats itself after he comes back from the journey, complete with a nearly identical epic rematch.

(come to think of it, thematically, that's a bit annoying, because it just completely undoes his reformation like it never mattered)

Edit: Also, in case anyone's confused about the beginning of Chapter 1, which is still kind of a mystery, it sounds like Wukong was crushed/killed/dispersed into the items you're looking for. Neither the old monkey nor the monkey you end up playing as (who seems to have less personality) are Wukong. Wukong was born out of a giant stone, which is why the old one was brandishing it (not sure if significant). Also not sure how/why the player character has all his abilities. Reincarnation? Or just a random monkey he taught with potential (normally they're weak disposable fighters with sticks but no magic)? Clearly not immortal like Wukong, but did they just give him his magical staff after he "died"?