Confirmed with Link: Bishop traded to Stars for 4th round pick

[WHOneedsSOX]

I'll post it again because i think SHeng had a good take.



Like he says, Bishop wasn't great, but we rented him for 7 decent games played and got a good return on investment considering.

It would certainly look a lot better had we made the playoffs because of that, but going from essentially a 2nd and 7th to a 4th and a 5th is probably pretty close to the normal cost of doing business.

Here's Jon Rosen's take on it from LAKI:

Bishop trade was a no-brainer. Acquire a better goaltender - even if his numbers were ultimately worse than Budaj's - and a fifth round draft pick in exchange for a seventh and a prospect. Adding a fourth rounder = a trade any GM would make. Issue here is the deterioration of the asset who was selected with a second rounder.

 

[kovacro]

Stars sign G Bishop to six-year, $29.5M deal

The deal holds an average annual value of $4.92 million through the 2022-23 season. According to TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun, the deal holds a no-move clause throughout and limited no-trade clause in the final three seasons, therefore he is automatically protected in June's Vegas expansion draft.

http://www.tsn.ca/stars-sign-g-bishop-to-six-year-29-5m-deal-1.750023

 

[Reclamation Project]

A lousy pick will only get worse over time. Have to cut ties at some point.

 

[HookKing]

Stars sign G Bishop to six-year, $29.5M deal

The deal holds an average annual value of $4.92 million through the 2022-23 season. According to TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun, the deal holds a no-move clause throughout and limited no-trade clause in the final three seasons, therefore he is automatically protected in June's Vegas expansion draft.

http://www.tsn.ca/stars-sign-g-bishop-to-six-year-29-5m-deal-1.750023

What? This can't be possible. We've been assured by resident experts that Bishop would absolutely sign in Vegas and it was all about the money...and the guy didn't even wait for the UFA honeymoon period to set a price much less insulate himself from the draft with the NMC.

 

[BigKing]

I don't believe that DL was going to try to bring him back as rumored, but that cap hit is a lot less than most were expecting. I'm sure the state tax rate helps.

We are really beating dead horses around here but I'll beat this some more.

Sheng's take is not a good one.

Budaj/Bishop = a wash since both would move on and Bishop didn't help the Kings at all.

Kings then trade a 2nd round prospect and a 7th to get a 5th. How very cool.

Grabbing a 4th here at the end makes it look better as it shakes out to Cernak and a 7th for a 5th and a 4th (late 4th) but that is not something I do every day. If Cernak is a bust then I understand but he still projects to be an NHL player. Kings might draft the next Geordie Wudrick and David Kolomatis with these late round picks in a weak draft.

If a 4th and a 5th in a weak draft is better than Cernak, then that is a pretty damning indictment of the Cernak pick in the first place by the same scouting staff that is still here.

There is nothing good about the Bishop experience. Getting the 4th makes it not as bad but it is nothing but spin to me to claim "do it every day".

 

[AlphaBravo]

I don't believe that DL was going to try to bring him back as rumored, but that cap hit is a lot less than most were expecting. I'm sure the state tax rate helps.

We are really beating dead horses around here but I'll beat this some more.

Sheng's take is not a good one.

Budaj/Bishop = a wash since both would move on and Bishop didn't help the Kings at all.

Kings then trade a 2nd round prospect and a 7th to get a 5th. How very cool.

Grabbing a 4th here at the end makes it look better as it shakes out to Cernak and a 7th for a 5th and a 4th (late 4th) but that is not something I do every day. If Cernak is a bust then I understand but he still projects to be an NHL player. Kings might draft the next Geordie Wudrick and David Kolomatis with these late round picks in a weak draft.

If a 4th and a 5th in a weak draft is better than Cernak, then that is a pretty damning indictment of the Cernak pick in the first place by the same scouting staff that is still here.

There is nothing good about the Bishop experience. Getting the 4th makes it not as bad but it is nothing but spin to me to claim "do it every day".

The problem with this analysis is claiming that Cernak is still worthy of a "second round" pick. Simply because he may be an NHL player someday is not good reason to keep him around. We need effective NHL players on this team that can improve our roster.

Based on his play, Cernak is not going to replace LaDue, Gravel, Forbort, or McNabb from our lineup. He may most likely remain a career AHLer like the many other scrubs we have drafted.

Of course, the 4th and 5th round picks that we got in return in this broader trade may not even pan out, but I would rather get picks and take another splash at the draft hoping for a better turn out, then to keep a defenseman that appeared to be going no where in the Kings system.

 

[BigKing]

The problem with this analysis is claiming that Cernak is still worthy of a "second round" pick. Simply because he may be an NHL player someday is not good reason to keep him around. We need effective NHL players on this team that can improve our roster.

Based on his play, Cernak is not going to replace LaDue, Gravel, Forbort, or McNabb from our lineup. He may most likely remain a career AHLer like the many other scrubs we have drafted.

Of course, the 4th and 5th round picks that we got in return in this broader trade may not even pan out, but I would rather get picks and take another splash at the draft hoping for a better turn out, then to keep a defenseman that appeared to be going no where in the Kings system.

That's the thing though: did he actually appear to be going nowhere or is that the prevailing thought now that he has been traded?

Also, Forbort/Gravel/Ladue/McNabb are all significantly older than Cernak. I'm not worried about him not unseating any of these guys for next season or even the one after since Cernak is only 19.

Anyways, Cernak is still projecting to be an NHL player. I'm told on here all the time that just drafting a certain amount of NHL players in one draft is a success. If he becomes Brayden McNabb, that is most likely still better than what this 4th or 5th round pick will be.

Again, one in the hand is worth two in the bush. Maybe they didn't have anything in the hand with Cernak but then that speaks to another wasted asset and bad draft pick.

It's either a bad trade or a bad draft pick in the 2nd round: again. There are no winners here and I'm not a fan of trying to spin it like the entirety of the Bishop experience was a net positive because this 4th round pick was obtained.

 

[KingTrouty]

A 4th round pick in May for an FA? Cool.

Yup. Another nice move by Blake. Grrr. I will gladly eat crow if Blake is worth a **** as a GM. So far, so good.

 

[AlphaBravo]

That's the thing though: did he actually appear to be going nowhere or is that the prevailing thought now that he has been traded?

Also, Forbort/Gravel/Ladue/McNabb are all significantly older than Cernak. I'm not worried about him not unseating any of these guys for next season or even the one after since Cernak is only 19.

Anyways, Cernak is still projecting to be an NHL player. I'm told on here all the time that just drafting a certain amount of NHL players in one draft is a success. If he becomes Brayden McNabb, that is most likely still better than what this 4th or 5th round pick will be.

Again, one in the hand is worth two in the bush. Maybe they didn't have anything in the hand with Cernak but then that speaks to another wasted asset and bad draft pick.

It's either a bad trade or a bad draft pick in the 2nd round: again. There are no winners here and I'm not a fan of trying to spin it like the entirety of the Bishop experience was a net positive because this 4th round pick was obtained.

That's fair. I can't say I have watched enough AHL games to know how good Cernak was, but if the Kings management and scouts decided to trade him, then he was low on their prospect depth chart. I also recall Rosen mentioning this around the time of the trade.

Ultimately, I think the Bishop trade was a good move by DL. He would need to give away our 1st round pick and other prospects and picks to trade for a top 6 forward rental. So instead of doing that, he made a few very very low risk trades (almost no risk with the Dwight King for Iginla swap), with the hope that if we get stellar goaltending every single game from Bishop/Quick we may make the playoffs.

It didn't work, but also there was no damage to this team. All and all, I think we basically came out even at the trade deadline.

 

[BigKing]

That's fair. I can't say I have watched enough AHL games to know how good Cernak was, but if the Kings management and scouts decided to trade him, then he was low on their prospect depth chart. I also recall Rosen mentioning this around the time of the trade.

Ultimately, I think the Bishop trade was a good move by DL. He would need to give away our 1st round pick and other prospects and picks to trade for a top 6 forward rental. So instead of doing that, he made a few very very low risk trades (almost no risk with the Dwight King for Iginla swap), with the hope that if we get stellar goaltending every single game from Bishop/Quick we may make the playoffs.

It didn't work, but also there was no damage to this team. All and all, I think we basically came out even at the trade deadline.

Yeah...it just all hinges on how Cernak turns out and then what the Kings do with the picks. Should know what's up with Cernak before the Kings picks pan out or not.

I would of been fine with nothing at the deadline save for the "free" Iginla pick up. Much like the year before with Versteeg, the Kings moved a former 2nd round pick for someone that wound up doing nothing for the team.

You will have to excuse my sensitivity towards short-sighted deals that move prospects/picks since that's all the Kings have been doing since 2014 with nothing to show for it.

Edit-

Cernak is in the OHL Finals right now for Eerie. He is not in the AHL yet. That's kind of my point: if you give up on a 2nd round pick that is still in Juniors, then you really missed on the pick in the first place if you can already tell it isn't going to work out.

 

[Bandit]

What? This can't be possible. We've been assured by resident experts that Bishop would absolutely sign in Vegas and it was all about the money...and the guy didn't even wait for the UFA honeymoon period to set a price much less insulate himself from the draft with the NMC.

He's a hockey player, they're not exactly known for their brains. Also...

"Seven U.S. states currently don't have an income tax: Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington and Wyoming."

 

[AlphaBravo]

Another benefit of the Bishop trade is that we controlled who we can trade his rights to. Its great that we traded him to Dallas and it worked out because it would have sucked if Calgary got a hold of him since they are in our division.

 

[Reclamation Project]

He's a hockey player, they're not exactly known for their brains. Also...

"Seven U.S. states currently don't have an income tax: Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington and Wyoming."

Who would want to live in Texas? Only cowboys live there!

 

[KingsFan7824]

That's the thing though: did he actually appear to be going nowhere or is that the prevailing thought now that he has been traded?

Nobody knows either way.

Anyways, Cernak is still projecting to be an NHL player. I'm told on here all the time that just drafting a certain amount of NHL players in one draft is a success. If he becomes Brayden McNabb, that is most likely still better than what this 4th or 5th round pick will be.

And at the same time, nobody would be giving the Kings a thumbs up if they drafted another McNabb. As usual, it depends on the argument people want to make at any given time. McNabb is an NHL player = just draft an NHL player. McNabb is what he is = well, you have to draft better.

Again, one in the hand is worth two in the bush. Maybe they didn't have anything in the hand with Cernak but then that speaks to another wasted asset and bad draft pick.

It's either a bad trade or a bad draft pick in the 2nd round: again. There are no winners here and I'm not a fan of trying to spin it like the entirety of the Bishop experience was a net positive because this 4th round pick was obtained.

That's too black and white for the draft. It doesn't have to be either/or. Your odds are less than 50/50 that any single 2nd round pick plays more than 1 NHL season.

Until Cernak becomes a top 4 guy, there's no need to worry about the deal. McKeown didn't light the world on fire this year. Fasching hasn't lit the world on fire yet. Zykov hasn't lit the world on fire yet. Miller still hasn't been a top 4 guy in Boston yet. At least not on any consistent basis. Maybe for a game here or there. Weal had some nice production, but he doesn't have a contract yet.

Is it better to have these guys playing in the AHL over having to fill out a roster with Hensick, Sutter, and Backman? Sure, but who are we really worried about so far? At the same time, you can point to all these guys not setting the world on fire as evidence that the Kings can't draft, so there's even less to be excited about.

It's the draft. Sometimes you end up with the right player, sometimes you don't. Sometimes you hang onto them too long, other times you trade them at the right time. Sometimes it's worth investing the time to develop them into a useful player, other times they become Hensick no matter what you do. It is far from an exact science.

 

[lumbergh]

I still think the Kings should have hung on to Bishop until the expansion draft. Good chance Vegas would have taken him. Then you can think of the trade as losing Cernak instead of a roster player to Vegas. Would have made a lot more sense. Still could have traded Bishop if he doesn't sign with Vegas, right?

 

[Reclamation Project]

Toffoli can go play for Vegas, Vegas would have no problem opening the check book for a guy like Toffoli.

If you're going to overpay a guy, Toffoli is the type of guy you overpay for.

Toffoli will not want to play in Vegas. Get real.

Why exactly wouldn't he want to play in Vegas?

lol.

Have you ever lived in Vegas? Do you think he wants to play on a team unlikely to contend for the next 10 years? BTW, someone needs to tell all the millionaires in California about the tax advantages of Vegas.

The average career is about five years. Most of these guys aren't earning mega bucks.

Most players have spent the majority of their lives devoted to hockey and don't have a career or skillset to fall back on. Theses guys try and earn as much money as they can in their short shelf life as a player.

They're also putting their long term health at risk. You're kidding yourself if you think players wouldn't take the highest dollar just because the location/competitiveness of the team.

I'm still laughing.

They already know, and have tax shelters out of state(sometimes out of the Country).

I should know, I do plenty of their taxes.

Here is a secret for you, most millionaires savvy enough to do so, avoid paying taxes at all costs.

You just made my point. They don't actually live there do they?

Some do.

Not all though.

Depends on their job.

A lot of guys have remote capability for their business. So they conduct in California, but they live anywhere they want. Oddly enough California is trying to pass laws to make it harder, and harder to claim (you're not a resident) Due to the fleeing tax base (millionaires included)

Yes I have. Some of the safest and cleanest areas in the entire US are in Las Vegas and Henderson. Vastly superior business climate.



They know. That's why they're millionaires. The majority of NV residents in the top tax bracket are CA expats remotely running a business.

Yup haha.

You just described my client base.

And if you love buffet dining and being bored and seared to death it is indeed wonderful. Toffoli ain't playing there.

Spoken like someone that has never left a casino, you obviously have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

One of the strongest business climates in the US, centrally located to the entire Southwest, 5 hours from the port of Long Beach, massive amounts of international business and money, a top tax haven, etc. There's a reason so many millionaires and billionaires live here and work remotely. I know many folks that entire operation is in CA and live exclusively in NV. You couldn't pay them to live in CA.

Extremely low cost of living, some of the safest and cleanest communities in the entire country, 16 national parks within 7 hours, world class entertainment and dining, thoroughly modern infrastructure, etc.

But I bet tax hell California is your idea of paradise. 2 grand for some ****** apartment, massive overpopulation, the worst traffic on the planet, mountains of taxes, etc. The very worst place in the US you could own a business in.

You'd make a lousy agent because taxes play a massive role in negotiating the very best deal possible.

And don't let that post fool you into thinking I'm advocating Toffoli wants to play there. No one but Toffoli knows what he wants.

Toffoli is a young hockey player with a guaranteed contract. That has nothing to do with running a business where costs matter. Nice try though.

Still not getting it.

What was one of the major reasons LeBron James took his talents to Miami?

Nice try though.

No one wants to live in Miami!

I don't love Vegas by any means, but there's worse NHL cities for sure. I'll take it over Winnipeg, Edmonton, Buffalo and anywhere in Florida or New Jersey.

lol. Miami = Vegas? Sure dude. Keep believing.

You keep ignoring the tax situation. No state income taxes in Florida and none in Nevada. Zero state income tax was one of the reasons James cited in choosing to go with Miami.

https://www.aol.com/article/2010/07...s-fuel-lebron-james-miami-heat-pick/19547963/

...and you keep believing California isn't being made more undesirable with every tax increase passed by the state legislature.

K, lol!

What part of logic escapes you? Miami is a fabulous place for young athletes (endless exotic babes, ocean front views etc.) and in addition the no state tax situation. Vegas also has the no state tax but the majority of babes are knit pants mamas. You guys are freaking hilarious.

You might, and the financial perks are nice, but there are many other factors, like in-season travel, proximity to home, etc.

Also probably a smaller factor but keeping in mind many of these guys call cold climates home some of them don't particularly care about the beach lifestyle. Some seem to love it--like Luongo--but look at what happens year after year with FAs.

I do think Vegas offers some perks talked about here, as well as the opportunity to be the "first" Vegas NHL players, and a fresh start--but I don't think they're going to be uber-attractive.

You aren't getting this are you. Miami is a highly desirable place to live, Vegas is not. The fact that Florida has no state tax is even better. Good grief.

...

What? This can't be possible. We've been assured by resident experts that Bishop would absolutely sign in Vegas and it was all about the money.

That was never said. Another swing and a miss.

 

[Kingsfan1]

Bishop had a no trade list so that explains why he got a 4th while Darling got a 3rd. The teams that would probably offer up more like the Flames were on his no trade list

 

[Legionnaire]

Bishop had a no trade list so that explains why he got a 4th while Darling got a 3rd. The teams that would probably offer up more like the Flames were on his no trade list

Aren't no trade clauses voided once a player is traded?

Are you talking about a list of places where he could be traded so that he might sign?

 

[HookKing]

...



That was never said. Another swing and a miss.

"Bishop is a point in his life where he is seeking that retirement contract.

If Vegas offers him the most money, he will likely sign there. Money talks, BS walks, hockey players know how hard it is to win a cup, most guys go an entire career not even winning some playoff rounds.

Most contenders have a #1 goalie already, and very little cap space."


Keep digging dude. You can do a little search to find this one.

 

[Reclamation Project]

A thread locked in March, no wonder I didn't see it. My bad.

 

[Kingsfan1]

Aren't no trade clauses voided once a player is traded?

Are you talking about a list of places where he could be traded so that he might sign?

https://mobile.twitter.com/JSportsnet/status/862064500349992961


Im not really sure how to post the tweet up so here's the link but John Shannon with Sportsnet mentioned this . So take it for what it's worth .

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Aren't no trade clauses voided once a player is traded?

Are you talking about a list of places where he could be traded so that he might sign?

Not 100% of the time. Someone can probably correct me here, but I believe it's up to the club and the player to decide at the time of the trade whether to further honor it since circumstances have changed. We often don't know after the trade whether they did or not.

 

[damacles1156]

"Bishop is a point in his life where he is seeking that retirement contract.

If Vegas offers him the most money, he will likely sign there. Money talks, BS walks, hockey players know how hard it is to win a cup, most guys go an entire career not even winning some playoff rounds.

Most contenders have a #1 goalie already, and very little cap space."


Keep digging dude. You can do a little search to find this one.

Bishop got his Retirement contract, six years with a NTC and a NMC. Bishop also got the money he was looking for, Front loaded 7M,6m,5.5M then 3.5M the rest.



Killer deal.

 

[HookKing]

Bishop got his Retirement contract, six years with a NTC and a NMC. Bishop also got the money he was looking for, Front loaded 7M,6m,5.5M then 3.5M the rest.



Killer deal.

Yep, and anywhere but Vegas to boot.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I still think the Kings should have hung on to Bishop until the expansion draft. Good chance Vegas would have taken him.

If they could sign him.

Then you can think of the trade as losing Cernak instead of a roster player to Vegas. Would have made a lot more sense. Still could have traded Bishop if he doesn't sign with Vegas, right?

I'm sure Blake knew where Bishop wanted to go. If he was willing to go to Vegas, then maybe they hang onto him. Signed in Dallas pretty quick, so we have to figure he had Dallas at or very close to the top of his own personal list. That they got a 4th out of Dallas knowing that was probably the situation is pretty good. Dallas probably could've waited until July 1 and given the Kings nothing since they probably knew about what seemed to be Bishop's preference, but they get in there before other teams have a chance to make him a better offer.

If a GM has a better deal somewhere, he will most likely know about it. If Blake could've gotten a 3rd, he probably would have. If other GM's know Dallas was a 1st choice for Bishop, nobody will give you more than Dallas would. Bishop has a better chance to win sooner than later in Dallas than he would in Vegas. He got $30m, a NMC, and plays behind Benn and Seguin. How much more is Vegas going to give him?