Biggest problem
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Ranger Angst
Registered User
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
- 13,693
- 1,492
I'm going with Torts... Why?
1) The Nash trade cost us 2 actual players... The remaining players that we lost were due to free agency (Mitchell, Prust, Feds, etc)...
Though we do miss Dubinsky, Newbury and/or Miller is a suitable replacement..
Reason 1: Their current replacements are not suitable replacements. This is mostly on Sather, BUT this is ALSO on Torts for not utilizing these players effectively.. Gaborik cannot block shots, and Boyle is a terrible centerman, yet he continues to do so every game. That is NOT adapting to the game. Of the players we replaced, Pyatt is the only one useful on the boards, and that is about all he is good at... Torts should be utilizing him with several other checking line guys to create a physical game, and that never happens either.
2) Richards is burned out for 2 reasons. 1st being he did not condition during the lockout... That is SOLELY on him...
The major reason is that, like most people keep saying on here...
Reason 2: Richards is not at the age where he can grind anymore, and that is what Torts expects of him... It will never happen
3) Gaborik might be fully "recovered", but no training camp, no time to practice, no coaching, etc etc before a shortened season AFTER getting shoulder surgery is bogging him down. That, coupled with torts using him as a totem pole to block shots is breaking him down... do you think he wants to risk that shoulder again?
4) Lundqvist is NOT any problem.. Though he has a slightly higher Goals Against this year, a mere .2 increase is not enough to justify this teams record
5) The defense is doing what Torts wants it to do... Collapse in front of the net, block shots... These guys are sick of it.. Even worse, some defensemen are not accustomed to the system... Couple that with an injured Staal, and there are the issues with the D... but that is not the issue with the team overall
So unfortunately, I have to go with Torts. He's calmed down especially with the media because (i feel) he doesn't know what to say anymore.. Like everyone else here, the system has reached its end, and the players don't want it anymore. It's not about being a cohesive team... We surely have at least a little bit of that in the locker room (lots of young guys that have a passion to play)... The issue is the way they are supposed to be playing is killing them (like someone wrote in the All Encompassing Torts Thread)
1) The Nash trade cost us 2 actual players... The remaining players that we lost were due to free agency (Mitchell, Prust, Feds, etc)...
Though we do miss Dubinsky, Newbury and/or Miller is a suitable replacement..
Reason 1: Their current replacements are not suitable replacements. This is mostly on Sather, BUT this is ALSO on Torts for not utilizing these players effectively.. Gaborik cannot block shots, and Boyle is a terrible centerman, yet he continues to do so every game. That is NOT adapting to the game. Of the players we replaced, Pyatt is the only one useful on the boards, and that is about all he is good at... Torts should be utilizing him with several other checking line guys to create a physical game, and that never happens either.
2) Richards is burned out for 2 reasons. 1st being he did not condition during the lockout... That is SOLELY on him...
The major reason is that, like most people keep saying on here...
Reason 2: Richards is not at the age where he can grind anymore, and that is what Torts expects of him... It will never happen
3) Gaborik might be fully "recovered", but no training camp, no time to practice, no coaching, etc etc before a shortened season AFTER getting shoulder surgery is bogging him down. That, coupled with torts using him as a totem pole to block shots is breaking him down... do you think he wants to risk that shoulder again?
4) Lundqvist is NOT any problem.. Though he has a slightly higher Goals Against this year, a mere .2 increase is not enough to justify this teams record
5) The defense is doing what Torts wants it to do... Collapse in front of the net, block shots... These guys are sick of it.. Even worse, some defensemen are not accustomed to the system... Couple that with an injured Staal, and there are the issues with the D... but that is not the issue with the team overall
So unfortunately, I have to go with Torts. He's calmed down especially with the media because (i feel) he doesn't know what to say anymore.. Like everyone else here, the system has reached its end, and the players don't want it anymore. It's not about being a cohesive team... We surely have at least a little bit of that in the locker room (lots of young guys that have a passion to play)... The issue is the way they are supposed to be playing is killing them (like someone wrote in the All Encompassing Torts Thread)
As a fan for over 50 years and a poster for the past 3 years, this is without question the most truthful, objective and best damn post I've ever had the pleasure of reading here! Nice to see someone place the blame squarely where it belongs!!
cd211
Registered User
absolutely its 100% on GM.. he gets the players based off how the coach coaches.. So Mitchell is gone you replace him with Halpern (37yrs old) Prust leaves you sign Asham (34) Feds leaves you replace him with Pyatt (31) our two biggest losses AA and Dubi 24 and 25 respectively, that played in every situation and center and wing.. No suitable replacements, just counting on a rookie to carry that load..
Slats did a poor job with replacements for the players lost, and instead counted on Kreider to Fill in for the loss of Dubi and AA.. he's the reason for lack of depth.. the Players (Richards and Gabs) arent playing like they should which is highlighting our lack of depth and quality bottom 6 guys.. If they were playing Well we wouldnt be highlighting the other issues on the team with depth..
Biggest Issue is Gabs and Richards are playing Terrible.. Then blame Slats for not assembling a quality bottom 6..
Torts isnt the issue bc he got stepan and hags and nash to step up there play when noone else on the offense was doing anything.. he's arrogant yes.. is he a bad coach no, far from it.. no system issues at all.. the big time players that we count and live or die by arent doing ****.. they need to step their game up, no excuses, when the lower players have been carrying more of the load then they should..
The Gloaming
23
So Torts get credit for Hags-Stepan-Nash playing well, but it's not his fault that Gaborik and Richards are horrible this year?
Why?
Must be the Nash curse they're talking about, there's a loser mentality around him...Jackets and now here 
So people actually voted Cally and Lundqvist as the BIGGEST problem. Boy, would I like to see the reasoning behind that..
The Gloaming
23
Hank and Biron are pretty much the only personnel associated with this organization that are free from my criticism.
Samuel Culper III
Mr. Woodhull...
I believe it's Richards and Gabby, but I also believe that Torts is doing his best to ruin Gaborik. Richards ruined himself just fine.
Paulie Walnutz
HFNYR JUST AS SOFT AS NYR
- Oct 1, 2008
- 11,126
- 9,394
It's a whole cluster **** of who's to blame. It starts from the pompous, smug, out of touch general manager, who should have been canned and sent on a permanent fishing trip before the second lockout, and it trickles all the way down to the stubborn holier than thou coach, to the players themselves. Torts can only do so much, he's not the one skating out there, it's on the players for dogging it. A coach can only do so much, and even more so these guys play at the highest skilled league in the world, at this point in their careers the players know how to play the game, we're not talking about teaching pee wees here. This has been the DNA of this franchise since its inception: ****** poor mismanagement, underperforming players, and bad luck. Combine it and you have what see now, 85+ years of mediocrity.
At this point I would be receptive to a coaching change(especially after this week if we get swept by the pens); it won't happen but players may need a new voice with a different mindset!
...As we say in the basketball trade on a made jumpshot; "money", "ice cream" to mention two.
All I know is this organization has been run piss poor since I'm a kid and that's 50+ years and counting!
cd211
Registered User
Only reason is bc they started the season off to a bad start (hags/step) and they stepped up after being called out from there coach they needed to be better... Imo, I typically blame the players before the coach.. the guys is a solid coach, and they certainly dont grow on trees either.. Accountability is everything and Richards and Gab aren't young players, they are proven vets who are top players in the game, when on their game.. How can you blame the coach for their ****** play when the younger players have been playing with so much heart and desire to succeed then both of them combined?? These guys have no excuses and need to get better, it should be on the players for not raising their playing levels when they are counted on so much for this teams success..
i mean i def cant argue that bc coaching changes can change attitude, but i think this is on the players to work out of this.. Richards and Gabs poor play is bc of torts? I meen they are 12+ yr vets, their poor play is no excuse on the coach.. they know their role and need to step up and be held accountable.. you cant have stepan out playin richards for this team to be successful.. Coaching changes to me is like a cop out or an easy way out or an excuse for the poor play and team to respond.. these guys are professionals and get paid a lot of money and need to have a competitive edge to be successful.. if they need a coaching change to be successful to me its silly.. idk im in the minority and strong support for torts.. imo he gets fired this year only if we dont make the playoffs and def next year if we dont do some damage all season...
Wow your putting part blame on a 21 year ld rookie,that's a joke man. You can't be serious. Let alone Torts gave Kreider no chance this season,dumped the kid every chance he got.
No heart your spot on,Torts is a dick that's a big reason. Gabby n Richards is another. Those are the 3 causes to this half season **** w been watching
You could also say: "So Torts gets blamed for Richie and Gabs playing like ****, but its not because of him that Hags-Stepan-Nash are playing well?" See what I did there?
Its pretty ridiculous that people cherry pick what they want to fit their agenda/reality. Torts does some things poorly. But that doesn't mean every god damn thing that has gone wrong with this team this year is on him. Nor does it mean that he deserves no credit for the good (though few and far between this year). Give me a break.
Read the sentence you quoted. He was quite clear. He is not blaming Kreider. He's blaming SATHER's assumption that Kreider would come in immediately and be able to play solid minutes. And blaming SATHER for not covering all bases by acquiring a reasonable bottom 6 forward to be able to fill in if that didn't happen. And blaming SATHER for failing to replace any of our FA's.
That said, to respond to the rest of your comment... Torts was perhaps a bit harsher than I would have liked on Kreider early in the season, and the yo-yo game of scratching/not sending to AHL was dumb; but the kid wasn't playing well. He deserved to be sent back to the AHL to work on his game. He's looked a bit better in the 2nd callup, but honestly, he's still not been amazing outside of the first game back.
Sorry, this is a much stronger roster than most. This is simply a horribly coached team. It has been the entire time Tortorella has been here. Even if Richards and Gaborik score, this coach still sucks. There is no drilling of fundamentals, the team sucks in all three zones, they play a pre-lockout pattern that gets out-coached over and over, and since that is all he seems to know he cannot adapt to any other style during a game.
Take Lundqvist out any extended time and this very talented roster will fall apart under this coach. He's horrible - has been since day one.
Take Lundqvist out any extended time and this very talented roster will fall apart under this coach. He's horrible - has been since day one.
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
- Oct 8, 2010
- 80,014
- 17,621
Special teams should be in this poll, IMO.
No team that is in the bottom-10 in both categories is winning anything.
No team that is in the bottom-10 in both categories is winning anything.
Doesn't that fall on Torts/Sullivan? There is enough talent here to be at the very least a middle of the road PP/PK
This verbal b-slapping of Torts (and I only said 'b' without identifying exactly what 'b' refers to) is fully in order.
As spot on all these details are, I went with "other", for the simple reason, we are not yet good enough. We ARE good; but we are not good ENOUGH, a level that requires we simply have more talent than we have.
I don't fault Slats for not paying Prust what he got and more than deserved. Even if Prust gave us a small break, and even if we pinched here, and there, it's too much for the allotted position. But there is plenty of room for blame to go around. We are starting to get better prospects but until they arrive and deliver, we have a gap.
There is something we CAN do about that.
One last time: there are no sacred cows.
Balance is nice, important, but not critical.
I'm totally good with taking a better offer if one emerges; if not, if your best offer for Boyle is Dylan Olsen and a 4th, you take it, because it has enhanced your actual and potential talent base.
