Biggest mistake of Snow's tenure?

[19 in a row]

who cares what numbers he would have put up without tavares? if he re-signed, he would have played with tavares and would probably be putting up the same numbers, if not improving on those numbers. even when they were seperated, parenteau still produced.

yes, the point was people believed that other players would have similar inflated numbers and could be plugged in for him at lower cap hit. As it turns out PAP was able to continue to produce(at least for last year), thus the reason why in hindsight, would have been better to keep him, especially since we have not been able to replace his production to this point.

 

[RMimagery]

Quote:
Originally Posted by islesfan186
I'm glad I'm not alone thinking that letting Parenteau go was one of the bigger mistakes Snow has made. He put up good numbers in Colorado this year.

This was the one that I was going to add when I first saw the thread, but I have to admit that I think this is more of a 20/20 hindsight from my perspective. I didn't kill Snow then so I won't kill him now because many, including myself, weren't sure that PAP could put up the numbers without JT. In hindsight, this definitely hurt and if I knew what I know now but didn't know then I would have wanted him signed for that amount(although it was not cheap). You win some you lose some, and its easy for me to tell someone else how to spend their money. Hopefully one of the young guns will step into this 1st line RW role in the next year or two.

People are acting like this was totally Snow's call. His budget is on a leash, at least until the team moves. I'd imagine (hope) that they want to make at least some splash prior to the move, with a player that garners some hype and excitement. Be it a goalie or whatever. It'll help if they make the playoffs again this season.

So the whole PAP thing (and i wanted him to stay but it certainly wasn't a no brainer with the contract he got) can not be brought down on Snow.

 

[ichabod13]

So the whole PAP thing (and i wanted him to stay but it certainly wasn't a no brainer with the contract he got) can not be brought down on Snow.

that wasnt an outragous contract ( not that you used the word "outragous" ).in fact, it wasnt even cringe worthy. as i recall, most people here were saying 4 to 4.5 miliion for 4 years or 4.5 to 5 million for 3 years. so the colorado contract doesnt even deserve a second thought.

saying "with the contract he got" implies that you think it was a bad/overpaid/ ( maybe outragous ) signing. at least thats what i take from that statement.

 

[RMimagery]

that wasnt an outragous contract ( not that you used the word "outragous" ).in fact, it wasnt even cringe worthy. as i recall, most people here were saying 4 to 4.5 miliion for 4 years or 4.5 to 5 million for 3 years. so the colorado contract doesnt even deserve a second thought.

saying "with the contract he got" implies that you think it was a bad/overpaid/ ( maybe outragous ) signing. at least thats what i take from that statement.

You're right, I never said outrageous. And it wasn't bad/overpaid. But even on this board, most people understood letting him walk. I personally wanted to keep him and it seems that he is still progressing. It's a shame because he had chemistry on that line. But in the long run, he's not the ideal fit. Hardly any physical presence. If we had a Clarkson type on the other wing, who can bang as well as score it would be better but we don't.

My point is that I'm pretty sure that it was Wang who didn't want to invest in that contract and thought he could get similar production for less (didn't happen). So Snow was a bit handcuffed.

Once this team gets a power forward (Okposo still has a shot but most likely is not a top line player) to play with JT, look out. If I were GM, that would be very high on my list.

 

[duster19]

You're right, I never said outrageous. And it wasn't bad/overpaid. But even on this board, most people understood letting him walk. I personally wanted to keep him and it seems that he is still progressing. It's a shame because he had chemistry on that line. But in the long run, he's not the ideal fit. Hardly any physical presence. If we had a Clarkson type on the other wing, who can bang as well as score it would be better but we don't.

My point is that I'm pretty sure that it was Wang who didn't want to invest in that contract and thought he could get similar production for less (didn't happen). So Snow was a bit handcuffed.

Once this team gets a power forward (Okposo still has a shot but most likely is not a top line player) to play with JT, look out. If I were GM, that would be very high on my list.

I love how snow gets a pass all the time on the premise of wang vetoing

 

[RMimagery]

I love how snow gets a pass all the time on the premise of wang vetoing

When PAP signed with the Avs (July/12), the Islanders future in NY was still a question mark. The money wasn't there or more simply - Wang wasn't spending more than he felt he had to. I don't know how you're not putting the pieces together.

Not saying I agree with it. You can blame who you want though.

For all the problems I have with Wang's tenure as owner, and there are a good amount, he really was the hero in keeping the team in NY. We're lucky he's from here and understands what the team means to Long Islanders. Another owner would've chased the money elsewhere.

What this thread shows is that Snow, dealing with the cards he's been dealt, has made only a few minor mistakes and has done more good than we ever thought possible that day when we got the announcement that our backup G was retiring and is now our GM.

Party on Garth.

 

[19 in a row]

Quote:
Originally Posted by islesfan186
I'm glad I'm not alone thinking that letting Parenteau go was one of the bigger mistakes Snow has made. He put up good numbers in Colorado this year.



People are acting like this was totally Snow's call. His budget is on a leash, at least until the team moves. I'd imagine (hope) that they want to make at least some splash prior to the move, with a player that garners some hype and excitement. Be it a goalie or whatever. It'll help if they make the playoffs again this season.

So the whole PAP thing (and i wanted him to stay but it certainly wasn't a no brainer with the contract he got) can not be brought down on Snow.

agreed, if you read my original post, I said that I can't blame snow and it is more of a hindsight is 20/20. I like PAP but agreed with the move at the time.

 

[duster19]

When PAP signed with the Avs (July/12), the Islanders future in NY was still a question mark. The money wasn't there or more simply - Wang wasn't spending more than he felt he had to. I don't know how you're not putting the pieces together.

Not saying I agree with it. You can blame who you want though.

For all the problems I have with Wang's tenure as owner, and there are a good amount, he really was the hero in keeping the team in NY. We're lucky he's from here and understands what the team means to Long Islanders. Another owner would've chased the money elsewhere.

What this thread shows is that Snow, dealing with the cards he's been dealt, has made only a few minor mistakes and has done more good than we ever thought possible that day when we got the announcement that our backup G was retiring and is now our GM.

Party on Garth.

My point has nothing to do with the quality of Garth GM skills, but more to posters who pass off Garth's non signings or bad signings (ie dipietro) as a wang deal. You see the comment all the time on these forums and no one knows what happens in these negotiations.

Your putting the pieces together is your own speculation. Realistically snow made an offer, pa said no, they walked away. 4 mil for 4 years is not a ridiculous contract even for the islanders...

 

[RMimagery]

Realistically snow made an offer, pa said no, they walked away. 4 mil for 4 years is not a ridiculous contract even for the islanders...

I'm sure that you're correct. And again, I agree about the contract.

What you're omitting is that (most likely scenario) the amount available to Snow was less than what Colorado offered P.A. We can take an educated guess that the budget was probably limited to about $13M/4 or $9/10M for 3 years, we don't know for sure and never will, but if it was closer to 15M/4 - I bet P.A. would've stayed. The Isles gave him a big boost by plucking him up and putting him on the 1st line next to an emerging superstar and he succeeded, and became a better overall player in his last year here. He deserved the contract. You can see that he was grateful for the chance they gave him.

just not that grateful.

 

[ScaredStreit]

who cares what numbers he would have put up without tavares? if he re-signed, he would have played with tavares and would probably be putting up the same numbers, if not improving on those numbers. even when they were seperated, parenteau still produced.

This past season (not playing with JT) he was:

18th in goals (13th among wingers)
29th in assists (14th among wingers)
25th points (13th among wingers)

He was an above average 1st line winger this past season (there are 60 1st line wingers-as each team has 2). Ranking in at 13 and 14th is impressive. Letting that type of offensive production for nothing is a BIG mistake.

Especially when you consider that the Isles had TONS of cap space that they could have used to give him a contract and still stay way below the cap (heck we traded for TT just to add cap).

It was a mistake, and PAP is a legit 1st liner. There's no other way around it. You can't whine and complain that JT doesn't have a RWer to play with-and then agree that getting rid of that kind of offensive production was a good decision.

 

[ScaredStreit]

agreed, if you read my original post, I said that I can't blame snow and it is more of a hindsight is 20/20. I like PAP but agreed with the move at the time.

You can absolutely blame Snow. Of course hindsight is 20/20. BUT it's Snows job to make sure that he makes the wrong call at the time-and those calls will be judged by hindsight. It was a mistake-and Snow was wrong.

 

[CREW99AW]

It was very Milburyistic. The evil one used to draft kids high, ruin their development by rushing them in, and then move them out for some short term fix.

Exactly what Snow did with Nino.

I have read fan arguments that CC will become a fan favorite. I am sure he will. Cizikas and Martin are fan favorites. They are also 4th liners. No gm in the league, would give up a recent top 5 pick for either.Yet, somehow Snow gets props from some Isle fans .


I see the team mouthpiece in Newsday, is now talking about Snow not being sold on Nino and Nino being a reach. Nino was Snow's pick. If Nino was a bad pick at #5 , it falls on Snow and his staff. It also brings up the point, that Strome/Reinhart/Pulock /De Haan were considered by some to be reaches.

 

[Jester9881]

Nothing yet, seen fairly or not, has disproven this notion. Nothing can support the trading of 4 plus picks over 2 trades - one a 1st rounder and two others 2nd rounders: something that you rarely even see a top 10 pick traded for - in order to move up to spot 12 and take de Haan there.

You say one was a first rounder, but neglect to count the first rounder we got in return.

The real cost was:

Chris Campoli
2nd round pick (37th overall),
Two 3rd round picks (62nd and 82nd overall)
And a 4th round pick (92nd overall)

The most valuable asset there was the 2nd rounder, I'm not going to lose sleep over that. Even if CdH never pans out, the draft is a total crapshoot. We've had a ton more hits than misses, so this seems silly to me for people to harp on. If you remember, CdH was (and still is) a good prospect.

What I see as having been Snow's mistake is that he allowed himself to get infatuated with one player where he more or less lost site of the grand picture in order to pick this one guy up - maybe even with a jolt of paranoia thrown in there by making that extra move from 16 to 12.

You're making assumptions. I'd say it's far more likely that CdH was very high on our scouts lists to the point where they found it necessary to move up to get him.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

When PAP signed with the Avs (July/12), the Islanders future in NY was still a question mark. The money wasn't there or more simply - Wang wasn't spending more than he felt he had to. I don't know how you're not putting the pieces together.

Not saying I agree with it. You can blame who you want though.

For all the problems I have with Wang's tenure as owner, and there are a good amount, he really was the hero in keeping the team in NY. We're lucky he's from here and understands what the team means to Long Islanders. Another owner would've chased the money elsewhere.

What this thread shows is that Snow, dealing with the cards he's been dealt, has made only a few minor mistakes and has done more good than we ever thought possible that day when we got the announcement that our backup G was retiring and is now our GM.

Party on Garth.

I agree with much of that, but I can't give Wang a pass on how he let the team rot for a while, or with him keeping Milbury when he should have immediately dumped him, etc. When you buy an NHL club there comes a certain level of responsability to provide something worth the price of admission. It is one thing to suffer under a rebuild, it is another to choke under a convent rebuild smokescreen while simply trying to save money at the expense of good decisions that would have helped the rebuild. Nino is one of a few examples of cheapness, not intelligence, driving some of the rebuild, and that is all on Wang.

 

[Jester9881]

I don't think we're giving credit to Snow for having dished off a 3 million contract (Wang demand???) for a submillion contract on a 2nd year Dman that was just coming off a 6-19-25 rookie season AND getting a pick in the deal.

Seriously, there'd be no talk of this move whatsoever if Atlanta hadn't given up Coburn for Zhitnik later in the season - which was a foolish thing done by a team near the trade deadline that was looking to shore up for its first playoff action.

To top it off, Zhitnik was already well on his way downhill while here with the Isles - i.e. addition by subtraction.

Seriously.... it's not Snows fault that Atlanta flipped their lids and overpayed for Z. If you just take the Islanders/Philly transaction, the Islanders got the better end of that deal IMO. FMIV was a better defenseman the years after that trade, and we got the lower salary and a draft pick to boot.

 

[duster19]

You say one was a first rounder, but neglect to count the first rounder we got in return.

The real cost was:

Chris Campoli
2nd round pick (37th overall),
Two 3rd round picks (62nd and 82nd overall)
And a 4th round pick (92nd overall)

The most valuable asset there was the 2nd rounder, I'm not going to lose sleep over that. Even if CdH never pans out, the draft is a total crapshoot. We've had a ton more hits than misses, so this seems silly to me for people to harp on. If you remember, CdH was (and still is) a good prospect.



You're making assumptions. I'd say it's far more likely that CdH was very high on our scouts lists to the point where they found it necessary to move up to get him.

If the draft is a crap shoot...then wouldn't you want to have more picks then less? An argument that would go against making that deal?

 

[ScaredStreit]

If the draft is a crap shoot...then wouldn't you want to have more picks then less? An argument that would go against making that deal?

Isles draft good player: Snow's great at drafting!

Isles draft bust: It's a crapshoot!

 

[lacunacoil777]

THe biggest mistake Snow has made is he has been unable to put together a team that could win a single playoff round. Milbury had the same problem. Its pro sports, winning is the whole point of it. Take winning away from the Yankees the last 20 years and those $3,000.00 dollar seats in the first few rows are selling for a $100.00.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

Regarding the actual topic, I think you have a top three of mistakes, with a runner up for four.

1- drafting Nino in the first place and his ensuing NHL debute disaster
2- drafting Bailey over several others. Petrov figures into this, as does Ness.
3- drafting CdH.
4- keeping Ricky around, and causing the three headed creasemonster.

Three of those issues have the hand of Wang all over them, from Bailey staying up, Nino staying up, and of course Rick.... and it is a shame we lost good assets for CdH which was Garth's call, but how do you hold him liable for not having a crystal ball?

In the end I don't see any significant standouts. It is possible though that the inability to jump on a real goaltender this summer could wind up the worst mistake of all. That remains to be seen.

 

[Jester9881]

If the draft is a crap shoot...then wouldn't you want to have more picks then less? An argument that would go against making that deal?

This is true.... but I'd value higher picks much more than lower ones. He traded a bunch of low picks for a high pick. This is hardly far from being the norm.

 

[Jester9881]

Isles draft good player: Snow's great at drafting!

Isles draft bust: It's a crapshoot!

How is it anyones fault the kid started getting injured the year after he was drafted?

 

[Poliz24]

In regards to the PAP situation. He put up good numbers THIS YEAR! The first year of a 4 year deal, lets see if he continues that for the next few years, then we can call PAP a mistake or not.

 

[rikker]

This past season (not playing with JT) he was:

18th in goals (13th among wingers)
29th in assists (14th among wingers)
25th points (13th among wingers)

He was an above average 1st line winger this past season (there are 60 1st line wingers-as each team has 2). Ranking in at 13 and 14th is impressive. Letting that type of offensive production for nothing is a BIG mistake.

Especially when you consider that the Isles had TONS of cap space that they could have used to give him a contract and still stay way below the cap (heck we traded for TT just to add cap).

It was a mistake, and PAP is a legit 1st liner. There's no other way around it. You can't whine and complain that JT doesn't have a RWer to play with-and then agree that getting rid of that kind of offensive production was a good decision.

you forgot to mention his -11 is the worst of the top 40 wingers, and he has virtually no physical presence.

you rank him 13th or 14th, based on a few selected statistical categories. i personally would rank him about 30-35th.

Boyes 35 points and -6 vs Parenteau 43 points and -11. not a huge difference IMO. how about salary difference? 4 mil vs 1 mil. BIG difference.

big mistake on Snow's part? i don't think so...

 

[19 in a row]

THe biggest mistake Snow has made is he has been unable to put together a team that could win a single playoff round. Milbury had the same problem. Its pro sports, winning is the whole point of it. Take winning away from the Yankees the last 20 years and those $3,000.00 dollar seats in the first few rows are selling for a $100.00.

But snow is not done yet.. so when they start wining playoff rounds over the next 5 years will it still be his biggest mistake? patience, rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[frankieboy]

I believe Snow's failure with PA was not in that he did not resign him, it was in not getting SOMETHING for him at that year's trading deadline. Even a 2nd or a 3rd round pick would have been better than nothing. Even with him, we still finished with the 4th overall pick. How much lower would we really have finished, and would that have been a bad thing? Alex Galchenyuk in an Islanders uni next to JT sounds really good to me...better than Reinhart especially given we just drafted Pulock (and, yes, I recognize they are completely different d-men).