Biggest mistake of Snow's tenure?

[Chapin Landvogt]

*drafting Nino at all. Forget about rushing him, etc.. For all the supposed emphasis on personality testing, etc., Nino was obviously a swing and a miss.

Although intrigued with the Niederreiter pick itself and happy to see yet another Germanspeaker added to the cropsarcasm, I did feel he went too high and that there was generally little evidence as to what he could become based solely on his draft year, in which he clearly first arrived on the scene.

Of course, conventional wisdom should have seen us take a falling Fowler there, but I digress... I personally had a bit of a thing for Granlund, but I still don't know how effective an NHLer he'll become.

To this point, there's little of anything showing that Niederreiter was a poor pick at five. Skinner of course has been better to date, but that could change in the years to come. In general, not many guys taken before or after Niederreiter have really arrived yet, so the jury is really out.

I'm just happy that Nelson, taken 25 picks later, is looking like the real deal!

*the failure to bring in better vets to play with developing kids. However, I suspect they brought in the guys they did for very specific leadership reasons not related to on-ice performance, and honestly that they may have been aiming at good drafting positions.

Possible. Just wish they hadn't put Bailey and Nino with some of those 'vets' they did bring in.

One can criticize that Snow didn't improve the team adequately or even with a number of the lower-ranked vets he did sign, but on the other hand, there was good evidence coming into i.e. the 11-12 season that a guy like Reasoner was a great signing for the lower six forward group while a guy like Rolston would still be able to help in the locker room while adding another heavy shot out on the ice. Certainly didn't pan out in either case.

Of course, we cannot look at any big-time UFA signing since Streit. Heck, after that, Boyes was about as big as they come.

*going into the 2013-14 season with the goaltenders that they have right now. However, they'll fix that by bringing in Tim Thomas.

Although they haven't improved the goaltending on paper, the team is at a juncture where it simply has to find out if Poulin can effectively take on more responsibility at this level. This will not be achieved if he's being ****blocked by older goaltenders.

That's all part of the process.

Nabokov should be able to successfully handle the bulk of the regular season duties. Nilsson may even blow things away at the AHL level and push out Poulin, if not also Nabokov.

Naturally, the longer a Thomas and Bryzgalov is on the UFA market, the better. Should things look bad 15-20 games in, then there'd be options right there for the simple cost of money. We fans need to hope that guys like this remain unsigned, just in case...

 

[duster19]

Although intrigued with the Niederreiter pick itself and happy to see yet another Germanspeaker added to the cropsarcasm, I did feel he went too high and that there was generally little evidence as to what he could become based solely on his draft year, in which he clearly first arrived on the scene.

Of course, conventional wisdom should have seen us take a falling Fowler there, but I digress... I personally had a bit of a thing for Granlund, but I still don't know how effective an NHLer he'll become.

To this point, there's little of anything showing that Niederreiter was a poor pick at five. Skinner of course has been better to date, but that could change in the years to come. In general, not many guys taken before or after Niederreiter have really arrived yet, so the jury is really out.

I'm just happy that Nelson, taken 25 picks later, is looking like the real deal!



Possible. Just wish they hadn't put Bailey and Nino with some of those 'vets' they did bring in.

One can criticize that Snow didn't improve the team adequately or even with a number of the lower-ranked vets he did sign, but on the other hand, there was good evidence coming into i.e. the 11-12 season that a guy like Reasoner was a great signing for the lower six forward group while a guy like Rolston would still be able to help in the locker room while adding another heavy shot out on the ice. Certainly didn't pan out in either case.

Of course, we cannot look at any big-time UFA signing since Streit. Heck, after that, Boyes was about as big as they come.



Although they haven't improved the goaltending on paper, the team is at a juncture where it simply has to find out if Poulin can effectively take on more responsibility at this level. This will not be achieved if he's being ****blocked by older goaltenders.

That's all part of the process.

Nabokov should be able to successfully handle the bulk of the regular season duties. Nilsson may even blow things away at the AHL level and push out Poulin, if not also Nabokov.

Naturally, the longer a Thomas and Bryzgalov is on the UFA market, the better. Should things look bad 15-20 games in, then there'd be options right there for the simple cost of money. We fans need to hope that guys like this remain unsigned, just in case...

Why do they have to figure out if Poulin can play at this level?

The last 2 years indicate he can't. Shouldn't he go to the AHL and prove that he is worthy of a shot in the NHL? Force Snow to play him...not give him a spot by default?

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Why do they have to figure out if Poulin can play at this level?

Because with a little faith and patience, he could actually be the next Roy.

You kind of have to find that kind of thing out a little bit while you've got a kid under contract and before you make the decision to let him walk or not. Not only that, but I think Poulin would have to go through waivers at this juncture.

The Isles have a little bit of a good/tough situation, because they don't yet know who of Nilsson and Poulin is better OR if either will ever be an NHL starter, much less a good one. I think the organization feels that Nilsson is ultimately the better of the two.

Fortunately for the Isles, they've got a vet who can carry the bulk of the load in the regular season. The guy in the back-up role will likely see about 30-35 starts. If Poulin will have to go through waivers to be sent down, and Nilsson is coming back from that strange vitamin deficiency thing anyways, it's logical who is staying up and who is gonna get a heavy workload down on the farm.

In many ways, it's time for both Nilsson and Poulin to give this team some indication of whether they can be counted on in the future or not.

In general, this step has to be taken with no less than Donovan as well, if not also Nelson at this point. Have to start figuring out who's on board for the long run and in what capacity, even if it technically means downgrading on paper. Lots of guys to make contractual decisions on in the near future, especially on the blueline.

 

[InformTheMasses]

Not only that, but I think Poulin would have to go through waivers at this juncture.

Nope, Staple and his brilliant contact the NY Islanders (whom Staple refers to as 'THE NY Islanders' finally did a little digging and realized they got that wrong and that Poulin has another year of waiver exemption.

It seemed pretty clear to me that was the case and that 'the islanders' had it wrong as per staple. But on fairness the CBA does sort of contradict itself in spots.

 

[duster19]

Because with a little faith and patience, he could actually be the next Roy.

You kind of have to find that kind of thing out a little bit while you've got a kid under contract and before you make the decision to let him walk or not. Not only that, but I think Poulin would have to go through waivers at this juncture.

The Isles have a little bit of a good/tough situation, because they don't yet know who of Nilsson and Poulin is better OR if either will ever be an NHL starter, much less a good one. I think the organization feels that Nilsson is ultimately the better of the two.


Fortunately for the Isles, they've got a vet who can carry the bulk of the load in the regular season. The guy in the back-up role will likely see about 30-35 starts. If Poulin will have to go through waivers to be sent down, and Nilsson is coming back from that strange vitamin deficiency thing anyways, it's logical who is staying up and who is gonna get a heavy workload down on the farm.

In many ways, it's time for both Nilsson and Poulin to give this team some indication of whether they can be counted on in the future or not.

In general, this step has to be taken with no less than Donovan as well, if not also Nelson at this point. Have to start figuring out who's on board for the long run and in what capacity, even if it technically means downgrading on paper. Lots of guys to make contractual decisions on in the near future, especially on the blueline.

This is the NHL not a development league. You just don't throw guys in to see if they can play at this level, especially when you have a track record that says he can't. This is a position that the islanders drastically need depth. Any NHL goalie is a plus. Both Poulin and Nilsson need time in the minors. There is no reason to play Poulin 30 games..he just doesn't deserve it right now.

Patrick Roy won a Calder cup, then a Stanley cup (and the Conn Smythe) by the time he was 20. Let be reasonable...Poulin gets is below avg in the ahl.

Our starting goalie is old and questionable, we are not a team that has the luxury of caring a so so backup...he needs to play and give us a chance. Poulin is just not doing that...

He also doesn't need to clear waivers..

 

[Riddick]

his asset management leaves a LOT to be desired. looks to be willing to rather let a player walk away rather then get the best return.

 

[doublechili]

Although intrigued with the Niederreiter pick itself and happy to see yet another Germanspeaker added to the cropsarcasm, I did feel he went too high and that there was generally little evidence as to what he could become based solely on his draft year, in which he clearly first arrived on the scene.

Of course, conventional wisdom should have seen us take a falling Fowler there, but I digress... I personally had a bit of a thing for Granlund, but I still don't know how effective an NHLer he'll become.

To this point, there's little of anything showing that Niederreiter was a poor pick at five. Skinner of course has been better to date, but that could change in the years to come. In general, not many guys taken before or after Niederreiter have really arrived yet, so the jury is really out.

I'm just happy that Nelson, taken 25 picks later, is looking like the real deal!



Possible. Just wish they hadn't put Bailey and Nino with some of those 'vets' they did bring in.

One can criticize that Snow didn't improve the team adequately or even with a number of the lower-ranked vets he did sign, but on the other hand, there was good evidence coming into i.e. the 11-12 season that a guy like Reasoner was a great signing for the lower six forward group while a guy like Rolston would still be able to help in the locker room while adding another heavy shot out on the ice. Certainly didn't pan out in either case.

Of course, we cannot look at any big-time UFA signing since Streit. Heck, after that, Boyes was about as big as they come.



Although they haven't improved the goaltending on paper, the team is at a juncture where it simply has to find out if Poulin can effectively take on more responsibility at this level. This will not be achieved if he's being ****blocked by older goaltenders.

That's all part of the process.

Nabokov should be able to successfully handle the bulk of the regular season duties. Nilsson may even blow things away at the AHL level and push out Poulin, if not also Nabokov.

Naturally, the longer a Thomas and Bryzgalov is on the UFA market, the better. Should things look bad 15-20 games in, then there'd be options right there for the simple cost of money. We fans need to hope that guys like this remain unsigned, just in case...

It's certainly too early to write Nino off, but from the Isles' perspective he didn't work out. And since it appears the reason he was traded was a personality issue, that goes to the thing the Isles focus on most. That's really all I was getting at - pointing at that specific failure in their program. And yeah, Nelson has the potential to salvage that draft, not to mentin Clutterbuck and McAdam....

I was half kidding about the goalie situation. There's actually something to be said about letting Poulin and Nilsson fight it out for the #2 spot and get a chance to evaluate one (or both) of them at the NHL level. Worst case, they could always pick up a goalie during the season.

 

[LetsGoIslanders]

Easy. PAP should've been signed for 4 years/16 million.

They also should've offered their next two 2nd round picks for PA at this year's deadline given that Colorado is in another state of rebuilding. I don't think the Moulson-Tavares pairing would've struggled has PA been brought back.

Now we have to watch PMB try to match Boyes... Ughh..

 

[islesfan186]

Easy. PAP should've been signed for 4 years/16 million.

I'm glad I'm not alone thinking that letting Parenteau go was one of the bigger mistakes Snow has made. He put up good numbers in Colorado this year.

 

[CREW99AW]

The Nino mess is Snow's Milbury blunder.

Snow drafted him. Kept him in the nhl at 19, with his $2.9m bonus filled contract,despite his struggles on the 4th line. Snow bought high and sold low, flipped a recent 5th overall pick for a grinder+3rd.

 

[steveat]

Before you call the Nino thing a blunder, lets at least wait until we see how Clutterbuck fits into our team, game, system...

Picking Nino at 5th was no worse than him picking De Haan earlier than anticipated. Snow does this a lot...not all of them will turn out as we had hoped.

PAP was a mistake that could have been avoided. I wonder if Snow thinks letting PAP go was a mistake at all?

 

[isles309]

I'm glad I'm not alone thinking that letting Parenteau go was one of the bigger mistakes Snow has made. He put up good numbers in Colorado this year.

I too agree that letting PAP go was one of the worst. We haven't had a first line since, and JT has had to do everything himself. PAP was able to bring the puck up the ice and make accurate passes on the fly. Now we keep looking for a replacement with similar point production to PAP.

 

[Quine Gon Jinn]

for me not resigning streit really pissed me off. we have so much room in the cap i would not of minded if he gave good money and long term to streit. I saw him as a franchise player and our captain.

also not keeping someone on the first line with jt and moulson for more than a year bothers me. PA could've stayed and grew with the team and by now would have unbelievable chemistry on the first line.

Finally I personally don't like the temporary fix to the goalie problem, but if he solves it at the end of next year ill be very pleased.

 

[blinkman360]

This is the NHL not a development league. You just don't throw guys in to see if they can play at this level, especially when you have a track record that says he can't. This is a position that the islanders drastically need depth. Any NHL goalie is a plus. Both Poulin and Nilsson need time in the minors. There is no reason to play Poulin 30 games..he just doesn't deserve it right now.

Patrick Roy won a Calder cup, then a Stanley cup (and the Conn Smythe) by the time he was 20. Let be reasonable...Poulin gets is below avg in the ahl.

Our starting goalie is old and questionable, we are not a team that has the luxury of caring a so so backup...he needs to play and give us a chance. Poulin is just not doing that...

He also doesn't need to clear waivers..

What? Poulin's track record doesn't tell you he can't. Look at his NHL numbers as a 20 year old. 10 games, .924, 2.44. Not the biggest sample size, but bigger than the 5 games he played this past season(which is what I'm assuming that you are basing your opinion on). He's still only 23 years old, which is around the age when goalies usually start to hit their stride. Not to mention we still have another goalie in our system who is the same age, and arguably a better prospect.

It just doesn't make sense to give up on both of them before seeing what they can do at the NHL level... on a regular basis. If Poulin struggles, bring up Nilsson. If Nilsson struggles, trade one of our many defense prospects or an upcoming draft pick for a decent backup.. assuming you can't find one on the waiver wire, which does happen. Either way, we'll be fine.

Ride out the year with Nabby. See what you have with the prospects. If you aren't sold on them by the end of the season, find your long-term answer on the UFA market. It's basically the same goaltenders that were available this offseason(Miller, Halak, Hiller) + potentially Lundqvist. Maybe even one of Reimer/Bernier through the trade market.

IMO, Snow is playing this situation out the right way.

 

[crasherino]

Nope, Staple and his brilliant contact the NY Islanders (whom Staple refers to as 'THE NY Islanders' finally did a little digging and realized they got that wrong and that Poulin has another year of waiver exemption.

It seemed pretty clear to me that was the case and that 'the islanders' had it wrong as per staple. But on fairness the CBA does sort of contradict itself in spots.

I remember you saying that on more than one occasion and your logic always made sense despite Staple's insistence to the contrary.

Poulin being able to be sent down gives us the opportunity to have the best goalie play. But considering that the backup should be getting 25-30 games in the NHL and the #3 will be getting the bulk of the time at BP, at least everyone will be getting some time.

 

[duster19]

What? Poulin's track record doesn't tell you he can't. Look at his NHL numbers as a 20 year old. 10 games, .924, 2.44. Not the biggest sample size, but bigger than the 5 games he played this past season(which is what I'm assuming that you are basing your opinion on). He's still only 23 years old, which is around the age when goalies usually start to hit their stride. Not to mention we still have another goalie in our system who is the same age, and arguably a better prospect.

It just doesn't make sense to give up on both of them before seeing what they can do at the NHL level... on a regular basis. If Poulin struggles, bring up Nilsson. If Nilsson struggles, trade one of our many defense prospects or an upcoming draft pick for a decent backup.. assuming you can't find one on the waiver wire, which does happen. Either way, we'll be fine.

Ride out the year with Nabby. See what you have with the prospects. If you aren't sold on them by the end of the season, find your long-term answer on the UFA market. It's basically the same goaltenders that were available this offseason(Miller, Halak, Hiller) + potentially Lundqvist. Maybe even one of Reimer/Bernier through the trade market.

IMO, Snow is playing this situation out the right way.

those numbers are from 2010-2011 and a freak knee accident. it was 2 years ago. Chechoo won yhe rocket in 06, do you want to give him 30 games to see of he can regain that form? I am not saying give up on him. I am saying, right now, and his last 2 seasons show, he is not an NHL caliber goalie. He hasnt even been good in the AHL over that time period. If you think he can regain his form from 3 years ago, then great, but the NHL is not the place for that. People question snow on rushing bailey and nino, well right now they are forcing Poulin to play at a level he isnt ready for. Getting shelled or obviously not having the coaches confidence is not good for.development. Bring in a real NHL backup, put less pressure and expectations on an ageing Nabby. We lost 1 playoff series because our goaltending was bad, and had no other option, why start a season in the same boat. Be proactive...enough with question marks in net

 

[doublechili]

The whole PAP thing is funny. Snow signs him from the scrap heap and the general reaction ranges from very negative to the proverbial "can't hurt". During PAP's first season he's the butt of jokes and is pretty generally disliked around here. Then people warms up to him the next year and based on that season some are saying the GM's biggest mistake was not signing Snow's own scrap heap reclamation to a big long-term contract. It's just a funny progression and even if I agreed I'd find it hard to make that Snow's biggest mistake.

 

[CREW99AW]

Before you call the Nino thing a blunder, lets at least wait until we see how Clutterbuck fits into our team, game, system...

Picking Nino at 5th was no worse than him picking De Haan earlier than anticipated. Snow does this a lot...not all of them will turn out as we had hoped.

PAP was a mistake that could have been avoided. I wonder if Snow thinks letting PAP go was a mistake at all?

If some fans want to think 25 yr old CC , is still developing, will be a 20-25 goal pf and not a 3rd line grinder....have at it. Imo Snow overpaid for a 3rd linr grinder.

 

[19 in a row]

I'm glad I'm not alone thinking that letting Parenteau go was one of the bigger mistakes Snow has made. He put up good numbers in Colorado this year.

This was the one that I was going to add when I first saw the thread, but I have to admit that I think this is more of a 20/20 hindsight from my perspective. I didn't kill Snow then so I won't kill him now because many, including myself, weren't sure that PAP could put up the numbers without JT. In hindsight, this definitely hurt and if I knew what I know now but didn't know then I would have wanted him signed for that amount(although it was not cheap). You win some you lose some, and its easy for me to tell someone else how to spend their money. Hopefully one of the young guns will step into this 1st line RW role in the next year or two.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

This is the NHL not a development league. You just don't throw guys in to see if they can play at this level, especially when you have a track record that says he can't. This is a position that the islanders drastically need depth. Any NHL goalie is a plus. Both Poulin and Nilsson need time in the minors. There is no reason to play Poulin 30 games..he just doesn't deserve it right now.

Ahh, then we disagree here. I feel Poulin has the potential to be a winning starter in this league. I see him as a legitimate up-n-comer.

I thoroughly expect us to know about this for sure after next season.

 

[Darth Milbury]

The Nino mess is Snow's Milbury blunder.

Snow drafted him. Kept him in the nhl at 19, with his $2.9m bonus filled contract,despite his struggles on the 4th line. Snow bought high and sold low, flipped a recent 5th overall pick for a grinder+3rd.

It was very Milburyistic. The evil one used to draft kids high, ruin their development by rushing them in, and then move them out for some short term fix.

Exactly what Snow did with Nino.

 

[Darth Milbury]

The whole PAP thing is funny. Snow signs him from the scrap heap and the general reaction ranges from very negative to the proverbial "can't hurt". During PAP's first season he's the butt of jokes and is pretty generally disliked around here. Then people warms up to him the next year and based on that season some are saying the GM's biggest mistake was not signing Snow's own scrap heap reclamation to a big long-term contract. It's just a funny progression and even if I agreed I'd find it hard to make that Snow's biggest mistake.

PAP could have very easily gone the other way. He might have failed to build on that good year, and then the Isles would be left holding the contract.

I wanted him retained, but I agreed with Snow about letting him go.

My main beef is that he did not try and turn him into a rental at the deadline and get something in return.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

My main beef is that he did not try and turn him into a rental at the deadline and get something in return.

Thank you!

 

[duster19]

Ahh, then we disagree here. I feel Poulin has the potential to be a winning starter in this league. I see him as a legitimate up-n-comer.

I thoroughly expect us to know about this for sure after next season.

interesting. Could you elaborate on that?

Also, im not saying he cant ve a starter. Im saying his play over the last few seasons has not been NHL caliber and has not earned him a backup role. Is it not concerning Nabby couldnt catch a cold in the playoffs and Cappy still wouldnt go to Poulin? We watched a backup steal our series and you still want a question mark in net?

 

[ichabod13]

I didn't kill Snow then so I won't kill him now because many, including myself, weren't sure that PAP could put up the numbers without JT.

who cares what numbers he would have put up without tavares? if he re-signed, he would have played with tavares and would probably be putting up the same numbers, if not improving on those numbers. even when they were seperated, parenteau still produced.