Bettman meeting with Ryan Smith, owner of Utah Jazz and Real Salt Lake (upd: Smith asks NHL to open expansion process)

[TheLegend]

The Delta Center is like the Footprint Arena in AZ before and after the renovation. Can't hold NHL hockey of 17K fans. It's closer to around 13K unobstructed seats. So, it can be a temporary home for a relocation, but Unlike AZ, the NHL probably should make sure a new one is rubber stamped and not needing years to get it approved. The past 6 expansion teams, they needed a new arena operational before a team plays their first game, unlike Ott, TB, SJ, FLA.

Right now I’m looking at this as SLC truly wants an expansion franchise.

But “just in case” Alex Meruelo can’t resolve finding a permanent arena site the league now has a definitive landing spot for the Yotes.

Can’t blame the league for doing this because the original Jets move was a mess and they landed in Arizona as a last resort.

However…. Smith has to have this new venue plan he wants in place, otherwise the Yotes end up right back in the same situation they were in when they came to AZ.

 

[dj4aces]

Did the NHL really accept Smith’s overtures favorably? This seems like getting loud about something BEFORE the NHL wants it to be loud.

But if they did, and an approving vote of owners think the Coyotes are hurting THEIR valuations, then there’s something to this. “If” carries some weight here.

*coughcough*Distractingfromothernewstoday*COUGH*

You're not wrong, but yeah... the timing of the Smith overture couldn't have been any better for the league. Almost like it was scripted, if I believed in such conspiracies.

No slight taken here. I’m not ruling anything out at the moment in spite of what I know some people here might think.

But to make a small correction, they aren’t looking at Mesa. It’s a site in NE Phoenix that could or could not be part of the state land trust.

Last I heard (a few weeks or so after the Tempe vote), they were looking in Mesa. Since then, I hadn't really kept track of the developments. I do hope Meruelo manages to acquire the land in NE Phoenix.

 

[TheLegend]

For the sake of conversation only, @TheLegend , because I don't know to argue. Here's a question......

When the news broke of Smith's move this morning, did you have any feeling inside yourself that this was related to the Coyotes?

I'm not saying it should have, I'm just asking if it did?

No. Not really. It’s getting the reaction I expected from the usual suspects.

Just explained above where I stand on this after seeing how the media is commenting.

 

[ForumNamePending]

I wouldn't be surprised if privately the NHL advised Smith that he should probably shut up.

On the other hand, I guess the hot conspiracy of the day is the NHL wanted a diversion from the news out of London, and Smith is actually doing the league a solid.

 

[GKJ]

Oh?

I don’t think so.

In the BK the league was forced to show what the value of a team in Hamilton would be worth along with a few other things I’m sure they didn’t want the general public to know.

The tried suing Moyes in New York and quickly got it kicked out and shipped back to Arizona where they got their asses handed to them. So much for the leagues bylaws over how individual owners handle their franchises.

If I learned annything from this whole saga it’s never underestimate what a court case can (or can’t) do.

These are not at all relatable situations. I am not a law person, yes, but I can’t fathom someone purporting to be one to claim they are. In fact, this almost the exact opposite, and, sure, the court case got thrown out.

Moyes ended up owning the team after Steve Ellman dropped it on his lap, and then told Bettman that he was going to stop funding the franchise until the league agreed assist in doing so, in turn for what they believed would be that he would not dump the team in bankruptcy court. When the league couldn’t get Jerry Reinsdorf back on, Moyes struck a deal with Jim Balsillie, and the league pissed and moaned and stripped him of his voting power. That’s when they went into bankruptcy court, and ultimately selling the team to the league, for basically what they tried to sue Moyes for, plus what was owed to Wayne Gretzky.

But the league ultimately got their way, which is my point, because someone who they do not want to own a team is not going to own a team, and even got a court to agree with them given how hastily the agreement was made, and how many times Balsillie tried to do it. That guy tried at least 3 times. It’s the exact situation that paved the path for Ryan Smith to be available the way he is because Bettman needed to be accountable for who prospective owners are.

 

[GKJ]

I wouldn't be surprised if privately the NHL advised Smith that he should probably shut up.

On the other hand, I guess the hot conspiracy of the day is the NHL wanted a diversion from the news out of London, and Smith is actually doing the league a solid.

I guess none of us can be sure, but the statement was dropped less than a half hour after the original news of the day, so it stands to reason that either he was told to do it, or the league knew and nobody told him he shouldn’t do it. But knowing how Bettman has operated with the sensitivity of potential relocation discourse, it’s way more likely he is in compliance than defiance.

 

[kaiser matias]

The NHL's history is pretty cluttered with tales of incompetent boobs of owners that annoyed the crap out of everyone else but kept owning their teams for years.

It was a situation like that which led to the NHL being formed in the very first place. Rather than force out an owner, which they couldn't do, they started a new league, and left him as the only one in the NHA.

Things really haven't changed in the past century.

Edit: Was beaten to it already:

They can't.
Last time they wanted to kick somebody out they had to create the NHL.
They didn't like Eddie Livingstone, but could not throw him out of the NHA. So they started the NHL without him.
Like the stonecutters creating the "No Homers club" after Homer took over.

Its not how it works. And i am sure the courts would kill any such thing if they would try it today.

 

[Tawnos]

Did the NHL really accept Smith’s overtures favorably? This seems like getting loud about something BEFORE the NHL wants it to be loud.

But if they did, and an approving vote of owners think the Coyotes are hurting THEIR valuations, then there’s something to this. “If” carries some weight here.

This gets towards the crux of the “31 owners are sick of it” kind of thing.

Personally, I think those owners that grumble about the Coyotes situation aren’t really grumbling about the money. They’re grumbling about the optics. How much does a financially successful Coyotes team (in Arizona or elsewhere) really raise the franchise valuations for everyone else? On the day-to-day, that hypothetical financially successful Coyotes team actually costs them more money without giving them very much added revenue.

My belief has been for a while that the money-first owners are fine with the Coyotes process playing out over the span of several years from the time Meruelo acquired them. The image-first owners are the ones with the problem, but there’s nowhere near 31 over those… and it might not even be a majority of owners. No one is going to begrudge Meruelo for getting the thing off the ground, if he does, but the status quo is fine for at least some of them.

 

[MNNumbers]

This gets towards the crux of the “31 owners are sick of it” kind of thing.

Personally, I think those owners that grumble about the Coyotes situation aren’t really grumbling about the money. They’re grumbling about the optics. How much does a financially successful Coyotes team (in Arizona or elsewhere) really raise the franchise valuations for everyone else? On the day-to-day, that hypothetical financially successful Coyotes team actually costs them more money without giving them very much added revenue.

My belief has been for a while that the money-first owners are fine with the Coyotes process playing out over the span of several years. The image-first owners are the ones with the problem, but there’s nowhere near 31 over those… and it might not even be a majority of owners.

I agree completely with the argument from optics. The Coyotes losing money doesn't hurt the other owners very much on their bottom line. Only whatever is shared among the owners of league-wide merchandising. Otherwise, the Coyotes losing money helps keep player costs down for everyone else. The Revenue Sharing isn't affected by which team is at the bottom. The same amount is going to be shared no matter what.

But it's bad optics when the most of the news from one franchise has to due with the possible relocation thereof, and it's playing in a college arena. That probably hurts more.

 

[TheLegend]

I agree completely with the argument from optics. The Coyotes losing money doesn't hurt the other owners very much on their bottom line. Only whatever is shared among the owners of league-wide merchandising. Otherwise, the Coyotes losing money helps keep player costs down for everyone else. The Revenue Sharing isn't affected by which team is at the bottom. The same amount is going to be shared no matter what.

But it's bad optics when the most of the news from one franchise has to due with the possible relocation thereof, and it's playing in a college arena. That probably hurts more.

Except…. All the news and optics right now is about two things.

1) Salt Lake City asking for an expansion franchise.

2) The 2018 Team Canada incident.


The Coyotes aren’t even remotely part of that but people want to read between the lines between the lines.

 

[MNNumbers]

Except…. All the news and optics right now is about two things.

1) Salt Lake City asking for an expansion franchise.

2) The 2018 Team Canada incident.


The Coyotes aren’t even remotely part of that but people want to read between the lines between the lines.

SLC is asking for a franchise. Period. No matter where it comes from.

And, we are not talking about "today's right now optics". We are talking about the general look of a top level professional sports league with one of its teams playing in a 5000 seat college barn. Can you imagine the Memphis Grizzlies playing at the Memphis State basketball arena?

 

[TheLegend]

SLC is asking for a franchise. Period. No matter where it comes from.

And, we are not talking about "today's right now optics". We are talking about the general look of a top level professional sports league with one of its teams playing in a 5000 seat college barn. Can you imagine the Memphis Grizzlies playing at the Memphis State basketball arena?

Last I checked nobody in hockey media has really been talking about the Coyotes other than they could make the playoffs this season.

 

[LPHabsFan]

Last I checked nobody in hockey media has really been talking about the Coyotes other than they could make the playoffs this season.

Ask and ye shall receive.......

Coyotes 'clock is ticking,' optimism on the Olympics, more: One-on-one with NHLPA boss Marty Walsh

With his fall tour coming to a close, The Athletic caught up with Walsh to hear about the issues at the forefront with players.

theathletic.com

 

[MNNumbers]

Ask and ye shall receive.......

Coyotes 'clock is ticking,' optimism on the Olympics, more: One-on-one with NHLPA boss Marty Walsh

With his fall tour coming to a close, The Athletic caught up with Walsh to hear about the issues at the forefront with players.

theathletic.com

From today, no less.

 

[TheLegend]

Ask and ye shall receive.......

Coyotes 'clock is ticking,' optimism on the Olympics, more: One-on-one with NHLPA boss Marty Walsh

With his fall tour coming to a close, The Athletic caught up with Walsh to hear about the issues at the forefront with players.

theathletic.com

Last I checked Walsh isn’t involved with any of it and that has him throwing a tantrum.

It’s a continuation of his previous tantrum from last fall to be more accurate.

 

[TheLegend]

From today, no less.

New day….. same complaint.

 

[MNNumbers]

New day….. same complaint.

Yes, and this is exactly what we are talking about. A top-level professional sports team playing in a 5000 seat college barn, with no club seating. It looks bad. That's why he's complaining, and that's why The Athletic is doing a piece on it. It just looks wrong.


ETA: Legend, we get it. You want to think that nothing is wrong, and that Meruelo and Gutierrez are doing a great job, and that everything will be fine. We can understand that.

But it doesn't make sense to the rest of us to ignore the possibility that they will fail in getting their arena. It is very possible for them to fail. In that case, these other pieces of information become very interesting.

We are not saying for sure that a relocation is coming. We're just curious because the Arizona franchise has had such bad luck and, as a result, difficulty in establishing itself, that these things are, literally "News".

No offense to you, nor to any other AZ fans. It's just facts that people will wonder "what's happening" with this kind of press release.

 

[TheLegend]

Yes, and this is exactly what we are talking about. A top-level professional sports team playing in a 5000 seat college barn, with no club seating. It looks bad. That's why he's complaining, and that's why The Athletic is doing a piece on it. It just looks wrong.


ETA: Legend, we get it. You want to think that nothing is wrong, and that Meruelo and Gutierrez are doing a great job, and that everything will be fine. We can understand that.

But it doesn't make sense to the rest of us to ignore the possibility that they will fail in getting their arena. It is very possible for them to fail. In that case, these other pieces of information become very interesting.

We are not saying for sure that a relocation is coming. We're just curious because the Arizona franchise has had such bad luck and, as a result, difficulty in establishing itself, that these things are, literally "News".

No offense to you, nor to any other AZ fans. It's just facts that people will wonder "what's happening" with this kind of press release.

Not at all what I’m thinking.

Either Meruelo will sort out his arena situation or he won’t. It isn’t any simpler than that and if people want to keep falling over themselves to finally be right after some 15 odd years of speculation that “this is really it!! …… THIS time!!” then knock yourselves out.

After all….. I’m “just a liar who lies all the time about everything.” Right? Nevermind how many times I’ve shown it otherwise.

 

[MNNumbers]

Not at all what I’m thinking.

Either Meruelo will sort out his arena situation or he won’t. It isn’t any simpler than that and if people want to keep falling over themselves to finally be right after some 15 odd years of speculation that “this is really it!! …… THIS time!!” then knock yourselves out.

After all….. I’m “just a liar who lies all the time about everything.” Right? Nevermind how many times I’ve shown it otherwise.

Saying, "Either he will or he won't, so don't worry about it" is equivalent to saying, "Either Trump will be convicted or he won't, so we should all just shut up and not talk about it."

 

[BKIslandersFan]

time is ticking to get approval for a new stadium in Arizona. SLC is the worst thing to happen if you're an Arizona fan.

If Meruelos is willing to take the loss and if NHL is ok with that then there is no time limit.

Wonder if Ryan Smith knows something about Coyotes we don't? Can't imagine he would ask to expand if he knows he can buy the Yotes and move them.

 

[Major4Boarding]

Maybe Salt Lake will choose Manchester, NH as a location for it's minor league affiliate?

Sorry, this one is just for the ECHL board folks.

Is Bloomington a possibility? I'm out of the loop a bit on that so not sure if the undercurrent knew of possible affiliations (yet to be disclosed). Just saw their logo dropped today too. Don't want to turn this into an ECHL thread though but

... curious timing to that as well.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Is Bloomington a possibility? I'm out of the loop a bit on that so not sure if the undercurrent knew of possible affiliations (yet to be disclosed). Just saw their logo dropped today too. Don't want to turn this into an ECHL thread though but

... curious timing to that as well.

Barring the NHL expanding this offseason, which they assuredly won't, that won't come into play. Probably the Blues, Jackets, Canes, or Yotes, as those four don't have ECHL affiliates, or someone with a team already is going to swap affiliates.

 

[BMN]

Saying, "Either he will or he won't, so don't worry about it" is equivalent to saying, "Either Trump will be convicted or he won't, so we should all just shut up and not talk about it."

The NHLPA leader being unhappy with the Coyotes' arena situation is not nothing, but it also isn't anything new. The current bargaining agreement isn't expiring for another two years, so by all means talk about it but I wouldn't expect it to be impacting things too much. If we're having this same conversation next year and the two sides are setting up the chips for the next agreement/extension, then it's probably more meaningful.

At least that's my take on it anyway.

Re: SLC, I'm more curious how Quebecor, etc. will reply in the next week, if anyone even asks them anything at all.

 

[TheLegend]

Saying, "Either he will or he won't, so don't worry about it" is equivalent to saying, "Either Trump will be convicted or he won't, so we should all just shut up and not talk about it."

Didn’t say that either. Y’all can hem and haw about it all you want. Doesn’t make it factual.

Hence making my point why I’m not saying much in the megathread right now other than the discussion about state land auctions is somewhat informative, but it’s only speculation at this point and a couple of people attempting to be the smartest ones in the room.

 

[Ernie]

I wouldn't be surprised if privately the NHL advised Smith that he should probably shut up.

But they did the opposite: they welcomed his announcement.

As for Meruelo being in control of the team, he's the owner in name only. He put in very little money when he bought it, it was basically a paper transaction backed by the league's line of credit.

Now with rates where they are he's likely paying through the nose. And the league can pull that funding whenever they want. He was a front man that Bettman thought would be useful but he's proven to be as inept as all the preceding owners. Now it's time to move on.