Olympics: Bettman hints NHL won't play in 2018 and 2022

[xxxx]

This, it's just a few NHL fanboys who favor the World Cup over the Olympics.

Well, for me, World Cup is just a best-on-best event as the olympics. I like WC more, but its not like WC >>> OG, no way. I like it more because of NHL ice mainly. But the results at the olympics hold the same importance definitely.

 

[xxxx]

An olympics with no NHL players would still have 100x the prestige of a world cup with NHL players in Europe.

For a hockey crowd? I highly doubt it.

 

[Jonimaus]

For a hockey crowd? I highly doubt it.

I think we established this already considering there has not been 1 single european poster in this thread (and I do dare say the ones posting on this forum are usually hockey interested people) who stated the world cup is something people care about even slightly. Will people be happy if they win? Eh, I'd say they would be more happy to shove it in Canadians face that they won their tournament, than happy about actually winning, something along the "lol we won your tournament, suck it" lines.

I can't believe we're going to go through this again.
The world cup will be seen as an exhibition tournament, it will have lower prestige than the world championship over here. It does not matter how north americans see it, we do not care. It's not an important tournament to us, and if it's the cause that the olympics may or may not get to have the best players anymore, you can bet your life savings people will see it as "the bad guy".

 

[patnyrnyg]

You were asking for a "benefit to the game", not to the NHL. Last time I checked, the NHL is not "the game".


I was merely quoting you : "if all the Russian and Euro stars opt for the KHL". That would make it the best league in the world or close to that.

The idea that KHL stars would get paid less if the KHL significantly improved is ludicrous.

And the NHL is concerned with the NHL. Not the KHL or the SEL or the WHC.

If all the Russian and Euro stars opt for the KHL, the NHL would still be the best league in the world.

 

[patnyrnyg]

I ment this incase they would pull through with not sending NHL players to the olympics.

An olympics with no NHL players would still have 100x the prestige of a world cup with NHL players in Europe. Would that be the case in NA?

Yeah right. The 84 and 87 Canada Cup have much more prestige than the 84 and 88 Olympics. 80 Olympics vs 81 Canada Cup is tough because of the upset in 80. If the 80 Olympics had gone as expected, than the 81 Canada Cup would have meant a lot more to the Soviets legacy during that era as being the best National team in the World.

 

[Canuckistani]

Yeah right. The 84 and 87 Canada Cup have much more prestige than the 84 and 88 Olympics. 80 Olympics vs 81 Canada Cup is tough because of the upset in 80. If the 80 Olympics had gone as expected, than the 81 Canada Cup would have meant a lot more to the Soviets legacy during that era as being the best National team in the World.

Actually the Olympics have always had more prestige globally than the Canada Cup, even though the talent and quality of hockey was far better in the latter event (which, of course is why we NA fans value it so highly).

Indeed the 1984 and 1988 Olympic tournaments were hardly memorable at all, because the Soviets mostly beat up on D squads (back to the olympic norm after 1980) and also because the events simply produced few games anyone can recall.

 

[Canuckistani]

An olympics with no NHL players would still have 100x the prestige of a world cup with NHL players in Europe. Would that be the case in NA?

Among non-hockey fan viewers maybe. But knowledgeable fans who understand what they're watching (especially after the past five olympics) will know that any senior-level tournament without NHLers would be a mickey mouse event. But of course the title of "Olympic gold medalists" would still add some meaning in itself.

Canadians closely watched the Olympic finals in 1992 and 1994 even though we all knew that it was an unbelievably poor sample of Canadian talent. Public interest in a non-NHL 2018 would be much lower than it was in the 90s, but people would still watch.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

it's just sad what greed can do to a sport.

If you feel that Swedish players are greedy for leaving Europe and coming to the NHL then that is something to work out within your own culture. Don't blame us for providing them with the opportunity.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

I was merely quoting you : "if all the Russian and Euro stars opt for the KHL". That would make it the best league in the world or close to that.

The idea that KHL stars would get paid less if the KHL significantly improved is ludicrous.

Dream on. The IIHF's own numbers show that there are over 2 times as many people playing hockey in NA vs Europe. Unless a significant number of the top North Americans also went over as well there is no way what you said is true.

 

[Jablkon]

This has been pointed out by several people on this thread and a few others. There is no evidence to show the NHL going to the Olympics has done anything to benefit the game. Was there a spike in ratings? A spike in ticket sales? A spike in merchandise sales? A spike in youth participation following the Olympics? No to all.

The argument you get back is, "It doesn't have to just be about money. What about the kid in Finland who starts playing after seeing Teemu Selanne play for his country.." Or something about how Europeans won't want to play hockey if they cant go to the Olympics or they won't come to the NHL. Or course, it is nothing anyone can prove.

They will also argue that more people watch the Olympics than the Stanley Cup Finals and yap about the ratings of the Gold Medal game or a US-Canada game. What they fail to acknowledge is the Olympics bring out a sense of patriotism in people. Those who have no interest in hockey will watch because it is the Olympics. The NHL knew/knows this. They went to the Olympics BECAUSE of this concept. The HOPE was that the non-NHL fan would watch Team USA, develop an interest and start to follow their local team (or any team for that matter). However, it hasn't worked. You point this out and people post about how their friend started watching the NHL after seeing the Olympics. May or may not be true, but what definitely IS true is the number of people like these alleged friends are not enough for the NHL to think it is worth it.[/QUOTE]

You are 38 years old and you do not see anything weird on this attitude? Sometimes you can not do everything for your own benefit. There are different values, especially in int. hockey. NHL consistently harm int hockey because it tries to find out some concept which will help to this league. Surprisingly they fail and fail again. They have to change their attitude otherwise they will never succeed.

NHL tries to be eqaul or higher power to int. hockey even if , from the basic logic, it can not work like that. So as the state is always more important than the region, the int. hockey should be more important than any local league...So please don't even try to instruct us what is the right purpose to play hockey.

 

[Jablkon]

Dream on. The IIHF's own numbers show that there are over 2 times as many people playing hockey in NA vs Europe. Unless a significant number of the top North Americans also went over as well there is no way what you said is true.

It is very offtopic and impossible situation. On the other hand I checked results from 80s series between russian and NHL clubs... Does not seem to me far from reality that KHL with all russian enad euro players could be the best league or at least serious contender to NHL. Of course speaking just about the quality of hockey. Anyway I hope it will never happen.....

 

[Urbanskog]

Dream on. The IIHF's own numbers show that there are over 2 times as many people playing hockey in NA vs Europe. Unless a significant number of the top North Americans also went over as well there is no way what you said is true.

According to the IIHF participation numbers, Australia has more senior players than Russia.

Do you really think that's how it is?

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

According to the IIHF participation numbers, Australia has more senior players than Russia.

Do you really think that's how it is?

No, the most accurate numbers are the amount of u20 players, indoor rinks.

I think you would agree that anyone who is in the top 100 scoring leaders in the NHL is an elite, top level player. How many guys are there outside the NHL right now who you think realistically would be in the NHL top 100 right now?

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

It is very offtopic and impossible situation. On the other hand I checked results from 80s series between russian and NHL clubs... Does not seem to me far from reality that KHL with all russian enad euro players could be the best league or at least serious contender to NHL. Of course speaking just about the quality of hockey. Anyway I hope it will never happen.....

I guess it depends what we are talking about. If all the Europeans went to the KHL and then were subject to the Soviet draft so all the top players could be forced onto a handful of teams then there is no doubt those clubs would be stronger than NHL ones.

 

[patnyrnyg]

It is very offtopic and impossible situation. On the other hand I checked results from 80s series between russian and NHL clubs... Does not seem to me far from reality that KHL with all russian enad euro players could be the best league or at least serious contender to NHL. Of course speaking just about the quality of hockey. Anyway I hope it will never happen.....

Yeah, the 2 best Russian teams which were stacked with all the Russian talent. If they do that again, then yes the KHL champ will likely be better than the NHL teams. However, the league as a whole will not.

 

[Jonimaus]

If you feel that Swedish players are greedy for leaving Europe and coming to the NHL then that is something to work out within your own culture. Don't blame us for providing them with the opportunity.

Read the posts again. Nowhere did I imply anything even close to that. I want all the best players to play in the same league. Hockey just isn't close to being big enough as a sport to have talent divided by multiple leagues. Would I like to have the league closer to me so I don't have to sit up until 4 in the morning to watch the Rangers? Sure. Is it really an issue for me? Nope. I'm more than fine with the best players playing in north america (I'd rather have them in North american than Russia any day of the week), the European countries that could put up leagues that would be able to match the NHL pay simply couldn't care less about hockey, so I don't blame the NHL for taking most of the talent, I am happy about it. But I do enjoy the international scene of hockey aswell, and naturally I don't want to see it be killed by greed of one league.

 

[jekoh]

Yeah, the 2 best Russian teams which were stacked with all the Russian talent. If they do that again, then yes the KHL champ will likely be better than the NHL teams. However, the league as a whole will not.

The Super Series rarely featured the top 2 Soviet teams. In 1978 for instance Spartak finished the season 8th in the league (out of 10 teams), and they still won their series against NHL teams.

The following season Krylia Sovetov finished 4th in the league (middle of the pack) and they also won their series.

 

[Urbanskog]

the European countries that could put up leagues that would be able to match the NHL pay simply couldn't care less about hockey

Meh, it's not like hockey is more popular in the US than in say, the German speaking world. With better players it would obviously be even more popular.

 

[patnyrnyg]

The Super Series rarely featured the top 2 Soviet teams. In 1978 for instance Spartak finished the season 8th in the league (out of 10 teams), and they still won their series against NHL teams.

The following season Krylia Sovetov finished 4th in the league (middle of the pack) and they also won their series.

In 78, Spartak beat Colorado, St Louis, who both were lousy. Atlanta was decent, but they lost to Vancouver who was awful and got beat by Montreal. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

The following year the Wings beat Minnesota (last place team) lost to Detroit, another last place team. Tied a good philly and beat a good boston team. Again, not that big of a deal. Don't have the details of the boston game to know if they played everyone. In most years, it was the Red Army that was sent over.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Meh, it's not like hockey is more popular in the US than in say, the German speaking world. With better players it would obviously be even more popular.

I disagree with that completely. Also the notion that nobody cares about hockey in the US is ridiculous. We have 300 million people here, only need a small percentage of them to be interested to have a successful league.

 

[Urbanskog]

I disagree with that completely. Also the notion that nobody cares about hockey in the US is ridiculous. We have 300 million people here, only need a small percentage of them to be interested to have a successful league.

Did I say nobody cares about the sport in USA?

 

[xxxx]

I think we established this already considering there has not been 1 single european poster in this thread (and I do dare say the ones posting on this forum are usually hockey interested people) who stated the world cup is something people care about even slightly. Will people be happy if they win? Eh, I'd say they would be more happy to shove it in Canadians face that they won their tournament, than happy about actually winning, something along the "lol we won your tournament, suck it" lines.

I can't believe we're going to go through this again.
The world cup will be seen as an exhibition tournament, it will have lower prestige than the world championship over here. It does not matter how north americans see it, we do not care. It's not an important tournament to us, and if it's the cause that the olympics may or may not get to have the best players anymore, you can bet your life savings people will see it as "the bad guy".

Oki.

 

[jekoh]

In 78, Spartak beat Colorado, St Louis, who both were lousy. Atlanta was decent, but they lost to Vancouver who was awful and got beat by Montreal. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

The following year the Wings beat Minnesota (last place team) lost to Detroit, another last place team. Tied a good philly and beat a good boston team. Again, not that big of a deal.

Minnesota wasn't a last place team, they were 12th out of 17. Philadelphia and Boston ended up 3rd and 4th, so those 4 teams together as a group were above the NHL average.

The idea that the Soviets were only competitive because a) they always sent their top 2 teams and b) all the other Soviet teams were talentless and not competitive with the NHL teams, is laughable because both a) and b) are wrong. The Soviets regularly sent teams outside the top 2 and when they did play they were certainly competitive.

In most years, it was the Red Army that was sent over.

CSKA, or "the Red Army" as you call them, played 6 series out of 17. In 3 of the 6 they were not the best Soviet team, in 76 for instance they were only ranked 4th (out of 10). They played the top 3 teams in the NHL (along with a weaker team) and still won the series.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

Read the posts again. Nowhere did I imply anything even close to that. I want all the best players to play in the same league. Hockey just isn't close to being big enough as a sport to have talent divided by multiple leagues. Would I like to have the league closer to me so I don't have to sit up until 4 in the morning to watch the Rangers? Sure. Is it really an issue for me? Nope. I'm more than fine with the best players playing in north america (I'd rather have them in North american than Russia any day of the week), the European countries that could put up leagues that would be able to match the NHL pay simply couldn't care less about hockey, so I don't blame the NHL for taking most of the talent, I am happy about it. But I do enjoy the international scene of hockey aswell, and naturally I don't want to see it be killed by greed of one league.

My point being that the NHL is no more greedy than any of those Swedish players or pretty much any other business operating in the free market.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

The Super Series rarely featured the top 2 Soviet teams. In 1978 for instance Spartak finished the season 8th in the league (out of 10 teams), and they still won their series against NHL teams.

So are we going to ignore than in '78 the Soviet's talent was only spread across 10 teams and the NHL/WHA combined had 26?