Olympics: Bettman hints NHL won't play in 2018 and 2022

[Urbanskog]

Soccer is lucky in the sense that the top talent is distributed more evenly to different leagues so no single league can dictate the sport like the NHL attempts to.

 

[Canuckistani]

What will be real funny is when the tourney is a success and then we are going into the 2020 tourney and people are still whining about the "mixed" teams that have already been shot down.

I would love for this to be true but I haven't seen any indications from the NHL that their crackpot idea has been shot down.

 

[Jussi]

I would love for this to be true but I haven't seen any indications from the NHL that their crackpot idea has been shot down.

I think he's confused it with the "all players from NA" which was shut down by the IIHF vice secretary Kalervo Kummola. Kummola confirmed that the mixed team idea was in the current plans.

 

[Canuckistani]

I think he's confused it with the "all players from NA" which was shut down by the IIHF vice secretary Kalervo Kummola. Kummola confirmed that the mixed team idea was in the current plans.

Is there no one at these NHL-IIHF meetings willing to stand up and say "hold on, this is INSANE!"?

 

[1Gold Standard]

Is there no one at these NHL-IIHF meetings willing to stand up and say "hold on, this is INSANE!"?

I think there is less opposition to it in Europe than in NA. From what I gather, (granted I read mostly Russian websites) the reaction has been negative to the idea, but not as universally negative as it has been here in NA.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Soccer is lucky in the sense that the top talent is distributed more evenly to different leagues so no single league can dictate the sport like the NHL attempts to.

Yes, we are so unlucky to have 95% of the elite hockey talent in one league, where we can enjoy watching them compete against each other for eight months of the year. Woe to us hockey fans.

 

[Canuckistani]

I think there is less opposition to it in Europe than in NA. From what I gather, (granted I read mostly Russian websites) the reaction has been negative to the idea, but not as universally negative as it has been here in NA.

I can only imagine Europeans being OK with the idea because they want the NHL to hang themselves as an international authority.

 

[alce*]

I can only imagine Europeans being OK with the idea because they want the NHL to hang themselves as an international authority.

No. Europeans aren't opposed the idea because NHL have all the rights to choose who will be playing on its own tournament. I mean nobody gives a **** if Finland would wanted to have second Finland team on Karjala Cup or Russia would wanted junior team on Channel One Cup, so why anybody in Europe should be strongly against NHL proposals? It's their own pre-season exhibition commercial tournament and it shouldn't be anyone else business. It's not like it's something serious or important.

 

[Frank the Tank]

No. Europeans aren't opposed the idea because NHL have all the rights to choose who will be playing on its own tournament. I mean nobody gives a **** if Finland would wanted to have second Finland team on Karjala Cup or Russia would wanted junior team on Channel One Cup, so why anybody in Europe should be strongly against NHL proposals? It's their own pre-season exhibition commercial tournament and it shouldn't be anyone else business. It's not like it's something serious or important.

Can I save this post for when European hockey fans try to explain to us why the World Hockey Championships are important?

I think we have established that European hockey fans want the IIHF stamp of approval for an event to be important, whereas NA hockey fans are more focused on the top-tier players participating. Like I have said numerous times, this is a divide that goes back decades to when Bunny Ahearne was conducting a witch hunt to root out any player with potential NHL ties on a Canadian roster.

 

[Urbanskog]

Yes, we are so unlucky to have 95% of the elite hockey talent in one league, where we can enjoy watching them compete against each other for eight months of the year. Woe to us hockey fans.

We = Americans and Canadians

 

[Canuckistani]

No. Europeans aren't opposed the idea because NHL have all the rights to choose who will be playing on its own tournament. I mean nobody gives a **** if Finland would wanted to have second Finland team on Karjala Cup or Russia would wanted junior team on Channel One Cup, so why anybody in Europe should be strongly against NHL proposals? It's their own pre-season exhibition commercial tournament and it shouldn't be anyone else business. It's not like it's something serious or important.

It's serious and important enough to attract the best players from NA and Europe while The Euro Hockey Tour is only four nations (and a Canadian team every so often) missing most top stars.

You can be sure that Hockey Canada and Canadian fans would care about the Karjala Cup if Canada's best stars were showing up to compete.

 

[alce*]

Can I save this post for when European hockey fans try to explain to us why the World Hockey Championships are important?

Please, if you want. I myself would never bother to promote WHC among North-Americans, but if people like that exists you can use my post. I'm not quite sure what point would you try to prove with it.., but anyway.

I think we have established that European hockey fans want the IIHF stamp of approval for an event to be important, whereas NA hockey fans are more focused on the top-tier players participating.

Actually, we have established that NA fans want to see a shiny show , when European fans want to see real sport competition. I think I only now have got why so called "wrestling" is so popular in US. I always thought it's ridiculous that there are so many people who want to see it, but now it's clear to me. All sport in NA isn't much different from this fake "wrestling", it's show, entertainment, nothing more. Even if performers are world class athletes it's still fake.

 

[Frank the Tank]

We = Americans and Canadians

How does the location of fans relate to your original post of how soccer is lucky because the top talent is distributed between leagues? If location is important, then regardless of how many soccer leagues there are, the vast majority of the top-tier leagues exist in Europe. So not only does soccer favor European fans, but it forces all soccer fans to watch a diluted product.

 

[Canuckistani]

Actually, we have established that NA fans want to see a shiny show

You think the 1996 World Cup Final war between Canada-USA was a shiny show?

I can only assume you're not old enough to have watched it.

 

[Jablkon]

First off, the mixed teams were never taken seriously and shot down pretty quick. They are not damaging the international game. They still want to hold a best-on-best tourney. Why does it matter if it is the Olympics or World Cup? Why does it matter if it is the IIHF running the show or the NHL/NHLPA?

Even to mention this possibility must be insulting to states like Slovakia or Switzerland. I don't have a problem with world cup when it is held parallely with Olympics. But if it should be just only one "best of best tourney", It should not be something based on invitation etc...

 

[Canuckistani]

How does the location of fans relate to your original post of how soccer is lucky because the top talent is distributed between leagues? If location is important, then regardless of how many soccer leagues there are, the vast majority of the top-tier leagues exist in Europe. So not only does soccer favor European fans, but it forces all soccer fans to watch a diluted product.

With soccer there are enough quality players in the world to make up several top-tier leagues.

Germany, England, Spain, Italy, Holland are probably the top-5, with the level falling off somewhat with Brazil, Argentina, France, Belgium, MLS etc.

With hockey you only have 7-8 countries that really play the game in any meaningful numbers, and even in those countries you have way more soccer players.

 

[alce*]

You think the 1996 World Cup Final war between Canada-USA was a shiny show?

I can only assume you're not old enough to have watched it.

I don't even remember who Russia have played with. I have to check with wikipedia to see that we beat Finland 5-0. I mean I've seen all those matches, but they completely gone from my memory. I remember almost every WHC or Olympics in 90s, two lost to Finland in 1994 with same score 5-0 and 4-0 are still fresh to me, but I can't remember anything interesting about WC96. It kind of saying for itself how important or better say unimportant that tournament was to me.

 

[Jablkon]

One has to look at the history of why the NHL and IIHF relationship remains adversarial. The IIHF (at the behest of the IOC, who wanted to strictly adhere to the amateur athlete status) was quite antagonistic for decades to Hockey Canada (and USA) at international events because these nations had their best players playing in the NHL. Over the ensuing years, the NHL idependently grew their brand of hockey to a very high level, attracted the best players from all over the world, and now reap the financial rewards of this successful growth. As a result, hockey as a sport has a unique business situation where the professional league that was shunned and looked down upon has become more powerful than the international federation managing the sport. So now that the NHL is successful and popular, the IIHF wants the their continued cooperation so the IIHF can make more money. Is it wrong for the NHL to say, what is in it for us? It is apparent the NHL has grown tired of negotiating with the IIHF/IOC, who refuses to budge on issue like sharing of media content, scheduling concerns, and selection of poor Winter Olympic hosts.

I understand but this issue seems to me quite old to have some impact on IIHF - NHL relation. There could be the problem with sharing OG income. On the other hand, NHL is not under any federation and you can find out tons of benefits of this position. All I said was that this is just one commitment for int. hockey which is demanded of NHL. Compare to any other leagues, it is nothing. Btw. do you think that NHL or owners has any interest in moving World championship to the summer and sending their best there every year? I am 99% sure that they are very satisfied with current WC schedule for so many reasons.....

 

[ForumNamePending]

So, because they haven't ran it as often, makes the tournament less legit?

Yes, I think bothering to hold a tournament with some sort of regularity helps to build legitimacy and prestige.

They didn't organize it since 2004 because they felt with the Olympics it was overkill.

Is there a source where the NHL states this as their official position? If it was overkill in 2000, 2008 & 2012 why wasn't it overkill in 96 (the NHL had already committed to the 98 Olympics) or 2004?

What exactly was wrong with the tourney in 1996 and 2004?

The '96 and '04 tournaments were fine and certainly better than the '00, '08 & '12 editions. I think the '96 tournament was a nice ambitious step forward from the CCs so it's unfortunate they mothballed it after that. I guess in a perfect world I would have liked to seen the 'smaller' countries given a chance to play their way into a 'best vs best' tournament, but since the Olympics was now providing those countries that opportunity (although that system isn't/wasn't ideal either) I really didn't care much that the WCup was a closed club.

What will be real funny is when the tourney is a success and then we are going into the 2020 tourney and people are still whining about the "mixed" teams that have already been shot down.

Well that, or given recent history, come 2021 those who still care are wondering why the 2020 WCup never actually happened.

 

[patnyrnyg]

The NHL had NOT committed to the Olympics when the 96 tournament was arranged. I would be all for Slovakia and Switzerland participating.

 

[Canuckistani]

I don't even remember who Russia have played with. I have to check with wikipedia to see that we beat Finland 5-0. I mean I've seen all those matches, but they completely gone from my memory. I remember almost every WHC or Olympics in 90s, two lost to Finland in 1994 with same score 5-0 and 4-0 are still fresh to me, but I can't remember anything interesting about WC96. It kind of saying for itself how important or better say unimportant that tournament was to me.

I can see why it would be so easy to forget.

The 96 World Cup featured the return to the national team (after the fall of USSR) of Nikolai Khabibulin, Viacheslav Fetisov, Darius Kasparitis, Vladimir Malakhov, Sergei Fedorov, Alexei Kovalev, Igor Larionov, Alexander Mogilny, Sergei Nemchinov and Alexei Zhamnov.

No big deal.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Soccer is lucky in the sense that the top talent is distributed more evenly to different leagues so no single league can dictate the sport like the NHL attempts to.

Yeah, it is better to have the talent spread out over the leagues so the league has a few stacked teams and a bunch of teams that have the right to get destroyed by them.

Let's see in the German League, Bayern Munich has won 11 of the last 17 titles.
Since 1985 Real Madrid or Barcelona has won La Liga every year except for 5.

Since the Premiere League started in 92, only 5 different teams have won it with 1 team winning 13 titles.

In that same time frame, only 5 teams have won Serie A, with one team winning 8 and another winning 5 in a row and another winning 6.

Yeah, that sounds awesome.

 

[ForumNamePending]

The NHL had NOT committed to the Olympics when the 96 tournament was arranged.

Well the deal was signed in September '95... Not sure when the '96 WCup was announced but I got to imagine that while organizing the WCup they had a pretty good idea they were also going to the Olympics. It also doesn't explain why the '04 Cup wasn't overkill.

 

[Canuckistani]

Yeah, it is better to have the talent spread out over the leagues so the league has a few stacked teams and a bunch of teams that have the right to get destroyed by them.

I can't imagine how fans of most European football club teams manage to get up for the season when they know that if they're lucky they'll finish 6th or avoid relegation.

Dynasties are one thing, but most Euro leagues are a foregone conclusion.

Part of the problem is that there is no playoff structure that allows for upsets. Instead the league season consists of a double round-robin (home and away), in which 2-3 teams inevitably top the table.

 

[alce*]

I can see why it would be so easy to forget.

The 96 World Cup featured the return to the national team (after the fall of USSR) of Nikolai Khabibulin, Viacheslav Fetisov, Darius Kasparitis, Vladimir Malakhov, Sergei Fedorov, Alexei Kovalev, Igor Larionov, Alexander Mogilny, Sergei Nemchinov and Alexei Zhamnov.

No big deal.

Exactly. No big deal. Just another exhibition tournament. Loosing to Czechs two years later was a big deal. It was a severe disappointment. 96WC have left me completely indifferent. You don't care about exhibition tournaments or all-star games, you watch them, get your part of entertainment and forget about them in few next weeks.