Better Player in their 30s - Ovechkin or Crosby

[gtrower]

The problem with stats is that they don't take into account defensive play, which accounts for 50% of a player's skill level. Crosby is better in this area.

And since he has better offensive stats too—no debate. A playmaking, defensive center is much more impactful than a sharpshooter anyway.

The problem with that argument is Crosby has been terrible defensively for awhile now. Somehow people have developed blinders on this with respect to his game and just assume he’s still the two-way force he was early in his career.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

No, not at all a defensive center, it's like some folks want to see him as a Bergeron or Datsyuk, he's not even close defensively. Pure offensively, ya Crosby has been ahead.

Ovechkin's physical play is just as important as Crosby's "defense". Defensemen makes far more poor plays when Ovy is on the ice.

When you're regularly nominated in the Selke top 10, you're a benchmark in defensive play. Maybe not the best defensive player, but one of the best, and above all, better than the player being compared.

Crosby is a playmaking and defensive center. One doesn't preclude the other.

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

Kinda crazy that Crosby only has 1 series win after turning 30. The tides really turn on you when your team gets bad

 

[Strangle]

The tie breaker for me in the Crosby vs ovie argument has always been Ovechkin’s hitting.

Ovie is a monster and I love him for it

 

[Fred22406Capsfan]

Different players, both great.

 

[Jared Grayden]

Crosby has been a non factor in most of his 30s. Ovechkin always a threat except for a down year in 23-24.

Define non-factor. He's still arguably a top 10 center in the league which at his age is quite remarkable. The team being a non-factor (which Washington has been in most of Ovi's 30s too BTW as neither team has won a playoff series since 2018) doesn't make the individual player a non-factor. If Crosby retires next year the Penguins could easily finish 32nd. He at least props them up a good five spots in the standings.

 

[ORRFForever]

Sid.

 

[Strangle]

I’m still bitter that Russian players weren’t allowed to compete in the 4 Nations. Cheapens the entire tournament for me

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Now I want steak.

Me too!!

 

[Randyne]

Ovechkin was better from day one.

1. Remove generational Malkin's help and Sid is on Thornton tier. Half of his awards due to Malkin's help.

2. Their hardwares incomparable. Ovi 18 v 11 Sid. And NHL took away 4-5 awards from Ovechkin. He could have more Rosses than Sid.

2. Ovechkin is top 5 all-time at least; w/o HOFers help; makes his team better (.614 with and .513 w/o)
Sid makes his team worse (.601 with and .633 w/o).
It's a team sport. If a player makes his team worse he shouldn't even consider being in top 10

3. Three points system is awful.
Secondary assists made by goalscorers don't count. Centers always have more random touches => more points.
By primary points Ovechkin is way ahead.

4. +/- system is awful too. Sidfans adore posting gif where tired Ovechkin stayed on the ice to get his minus. Ovechkin doesn't hide his minuses behind his teammates.
And Sid often hides his minuses behind Malkin (that's why Malkin has only +30). It's a dirty trick from whinny and dirty player to get hype and hart votes from media.

 

[Ole Gil]

Kinda crazy that Crosby only has 1 series win after turning 30. The tides really turn on you when your team gets bad

He was a winner. But then he forgot how to be a winner, I guess.

 

[SkinsFan09]

When you're regularly nominated in the Selke top 10, you're a benchmark in defensive play. Maybe not the best defensive player, but one of the best, and above all, better than the player being compared.

Crosby is a playmaking and defensive center. One doesn't preclude the other.

Reputation like Michael Jordan being 1st Team All Defense in the late 90s.

 

[Turin]

Crosby still the superior player of the sport of hockey after 30. By a non insignificant margin.

Ovechkin has multiple seasons where he’s a net negative outside of the powerplay to his name. Crosby’s worst season is still a star 1C.

 

[Mulletman]

The problem with that argument is Crosby has been terrible defensively for awhile now. Somehow people have developed blinders on this with respect to his game and just assume he’s still the two-way force he was early in his career.

Yes, Crosby has been terrible defensively this year. -22 so far despite putting up 82 points. If he was the 2way player that people say he is, Pittsburgh would be making the playoffs right now!

 

[Nadal On Clay]

I'd say it's about even at this point. If you compare age vs. age, Through 37 I have them even with 3 advantages each, and 2 ties. Crosby should have the better 38 year-old season next year, and pretty unlikely to have a better 39 year-old season (but not impossible for a player of Sid's calibre).

Honestly kind of amazing when it's broken down this way and you can see how dominant these guys have been in their 30's despite it being a young-mans game.


View attachment 1006600

And that is a best-case scenario for OV truthers. If you look further than goals, you’d see that Crosby has been the all around better producer and better player throughout almost all their thirties. Ovechkin should deservedly get age 32 and age 34, but all the others should be Crosby. Their Hart record and their playoffs performances further prove that.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

At what point do we stop narrowing the focus of comparison? It’s the entire career of the greatest players that ranks them. And one of the best ways to rank them within their tier of greatest players is by leading clubs to Cups. Not just winning a Cup, but being an important piece of the winning. Lots of guys have more than one Cup. But the vast majority of those players aren’t ranked in the same tier of greatness as Crosby and OV. So they don’t matter in this comparison.
Dionne was a fabulous player and many would place him in the tier with some of the greatest. But he would (imo) get put at the bottom of that tier because of his not leading a club to the Cup.
OV led the Capitals to a Cup and is the greatest goal scorer ever. He’s certainly placed into an upper tier of the greatest. But (imo) Crosby is higher in that tier.

Is McDavid a lesser player than anyone because he hasn’t won?

Who wins more cups if Malkin plays with Ovechkin instead of Crosby?

 

[Hank Plank]

This comparison is so stale.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Crosby still the superior player of the sport of hockey after 30. By a non insignificant margin.

Ovechkin has multiple seasons where he’s a net negative outside of the powerplay to his name. Crosby’s worst season is still a star 1C.

Plus minus is weak sauce. Ovechkin has almost identical seasons in 2014 vs 2015 and yet there’s 55 point plus/minus differential between the two. It’s meaningless.

 

[Video Nasty]

And OV reached 894 in one fewer game than Wayne Gretzky.

I don’t have an adequate superlative for this.

Gretzky scored his 894th goal in 7 fewer games.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Gretzky scored his 894th goal in 7 fewer games.

?

Watchu talkin’ ‘bout Willis?

Ovechkin makes history by tying Gretzky's NHL goals record | NHL.com

Capitals forward scores Nos. 893, 894 in win against Blackhawks to equal mark that had stood for 31 years

www.nhl.com

 

[Fatass]

Is McDavid a lesser player than anyone because he hasn’t won?

Who wins more cups if Malkin plays with Ovechkin instead of Crosby?

McDavid isn’t part of this thread. But (imo) he’s in a tier with the greatest players but is ranked down that tier with Dionne. Yes, in the greatest ever tier, but didn’t lead a club to the Cup. I think when ranking the greatest players leading their club to Cups is a must to separate these great players. Other than Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, and Howe the greatest players are all very close in their ranking. IMO.

 

[Video Nasty]

?

I’m just correcting a widely reported error. Gretzky scored his 894th goal in his 1479th game. Ovechkin did it in his 1,486th game.

The party starts when Ovechkin scores 895 and beyond and becomes the de facto quickest, ala Gretzky from goals 802 through 894.

For whatever the reason, the hockey world at large isn’t checking facts and reality, and just running with this.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

McDavid isn’t part of this thread. But (imo) he’s in a tier with the greatest players but is ranked down that tier with Dionne. Yes, in the greatest ever tier, but didn’t lead a club to the Cup. I think when ranking the greatest players leading their club to Cups is a must to separate these great players. Other than Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, and Howe the greatest players are all very close in their ranking. IMO.

You can’t ignore the teams. McDavid did everything humanly possible to win. He won the Smythe in a losing cause. Is he a lesser player than MacKinnon because he hasn’t won? Of course not.

Crosby had Malkin riding shotgun. Give OV Malkin and he has more cups and Crosby might not have any.

 

[DRW895]

Who is crosby? Guy who never had a chance even to be number 1 in his own franchise history?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I’m just correcting a widely reported error. Gretzky scored his 894th goal in his 1479th game. Ovechkin did it in his 1,486th game.

The party starts when Ovechkin scores 895 and beyond and becomes the de facto quickest, ala Gretzky from goals 802 through 894.

For whatever the reason, the hockey world at large isn’t checking facts and reality, and just running with this.

Interesting. Gretzky has nine games without a goal at the end. So if you gave both players 1486 games they’d be at the same pace. OV has a game in hand. I guess he has to score tomorrow to actually beat Gretzky’s pace.