Best Rangers coach since Keenan?

[Beacon]

DQ isn't even an option?

 

[yzerman]

Time goes fast AV already feels a long time ago

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Time goes fast AV already feels a long time ago

So long ago that people already want to be Tort's Kinda Guys again.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

What? No love for Ron Low? Bryan Trottier? Muckler? Sather himself?

 

[Edge]

Torts by a mile. Had the least talent to work with and squeezed a lot of juice out of it

Yes and no.

In the beginning perhaps, but those teams had a prime, Vezina-winning Lundqvist, that core group of young defenseman (before the decline), two of Gaborik's better/healthy seasons, Brad Richards, and a peak Rick Nash for the final season.

Both AV and Torts had their share of glaring holes with which to deal. But I think there's a little bit of a misconception that Torts set the table for AV. At that point I feel like we're stacking the deck a bit much: AV made was a game away from two Stanley Cup finals appearances with this team, some two and three years after Torts was gone, and with players who didn't have a long history under Torts or who hit new peaks after his departure.

AV certainly deserves his fair share of criticism, but his teams were also among the most successful Rangers teams of the past 40 years.

 

[True Blue]

Renney, who I didn't like, deserves credit. He began the turnaround after the Dark Ages and Fat Cats on Ice.

That said, will take Torts. To me, Torts did more with less whereas AV did less with more.

 

[Fugazy]

Idk man I'd just pick the coach who got NYR the furthest, that'd be AV's SCF & ECF appearances. Torts is probably a better coach overall though.

Those rosters were set up and ready to make playoff runs and had an elite goaltender to bail out the coach’s decision making. The years following the two cup runs, AV’s system was exposed and he made absolutely zero adjustments to keep other teams honest.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

The problem with this whole thing is that they're all better than Keenan. He was a mean spirited egomaniac who sacrificed players careers for his own.

Sounds a lot like AV.

 

[Edge]

Those rosters were set up and ready to make playoff runs and had an elite goaltender to bail out the coach’s decision making. The years following the two cup runs, AV’s system was exposed and he made absolutely zero adjustments to keep other teams honest.

But there's the key part of the statement - two cup runs.

We act like that's a throwaway accomplishment.

No other coach in this board's lifetime, or that of most of its members, had two.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

As much as I dislike him, it's AV

For the reasons Edge is mentioning above

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

But there's the key part of the statement - two cup runs.

We act like that's a throwaway accomplishment.

No other coach in this board's lifetime, or that of most of its members, had two.

Yeah "two cup runs" by riding on the coat tails of John Muckler.

 

[Barnaby]

Tortorella... AV had some nice runs, but I think Tortorella was the best of the bunch.

Add John Scmuckler

 

[Barnaby]

There was a growing sentiment Torts teams lacked offensive creativity which is a legit argument. I think his style of coaching can run stale as well.

However, I had really gotten frustrated with AV's vanilla brand of hockey and a defense system that his players couldn't run anymore and it felt like no adjustments were made.

Few draft picks and lack of young talent came back to rear its ugly head.

 

[reaktorblue]

What? No love for Ron Low? Bryan Trottier? Muckler? Sather himself?

Yeah, I mean, to go from Colin Campbell to John Tortorella, presumably his 2nd stint, skipping all in between, is quite some time. From someone who has watched every season since Keenan, I have to say my least favorite has been John Muckler.

For whatever reason in my youth at the time, I used to call him Orville Redenbacher.

Since the cup, the only coach to have done anything noteworthy (pres trophy and a conference champ) was AV. He also had the best winning pct as far as I can remember.

 

[BleedBlueNYR]

[QUOTE="Hire Sather, post: 16064We eventually forgive him for starting 7 D in Game 7 vs Tampa.[/QUOTE]
No we don’t. That team should’ve won the Stanley Cup.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

[QUOTE="Hire Sather, post: 16064We eventually forgive him for starting 7 D in Game 7 vs Tampa.

No we don’t. That team should’ve won the Stanley Cup.[/QUOTE]

Yeah see this is where the AV meme started.

I still don't believe we should have won the cup in 2015, when we didn't win the cup the prior year in 2014 when the team was younger and better.

Also, we weren't playing Tampa for the cup in 2015 iirc, so there's that whole butterfly effect of needing to win that round and then the next round which the team failed to do the year prior.

Face it. The New Era® RangersTown™ were not FIRE RENNEY!'s "accountability, or being Tort's Kinda Guys, or AV's System.

The New Era® team was dragged by Henrik Lundqvist.

On a related note, @allofyou, missing how much Lundqvist carried the team and focusing on minutia is one of the reasons the board is so often incorrect in it's collective braintrust.

I mean maybe the year we lost in the first round was the "real year" not 2014

Or maybe the year we missed the playoffs by a game from Oli Jokinnen was "the year" not 2014

No, the reality was, I felt starting in 2011 was the 3 year window for the Rangers, and if you factor in the half lockout, it worked out exactly like that. No it wasn't one call here, or the forth line, it was what it was.

 

[McRanger]

I still don't believe we should have won the cup in 2015, when we didn't win the cup the prior year in 2014 when the team was younger and better.

The 96 point 12th overall team in '14 was better than 113 point president trophy team in '15?

And '15 team shouldn't have won the cup because the '14 team didn't?

 

[tailgunner]

sorry but torts was horrible in regards to the style of play we used, all the shot blocking and 6 man goalie defense, the games were excruciating to watch, take a look at 2013 playoff game 1 vs the Bruins in OT, instead of coming out and trying to win the game, torts had the team turtling and looking for transition breaks, the shots were like 10-1 until the bruins finally scored, AV and renney were pretty good with what they had

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

The 96 point 12th overall team in '14 was better than 113 point president trophy team in '15?

And '15 team shouldn't have won the cup because the '14 team didn't?

Yes they looked better in the playoffs than the regular season in regard to 2014 v 2015.

For example, Tampa this year. Given their regular season dominance , had they won 16 games this playoffs, the cup was theirs.

 

[True Blue]

sorry but torts was horrible in regards to the style of play we used, all the shot blocking and 6 man goalie defense, the games were excruciating to watch, take a look at 2013 playoff game 1 vs the Bruins in OT, instead of coming out and trying to win the game, torts had the team turtling and looking for transition breaks, the shots were like 10-1 until the bruins finally scored, AV and renney were pretty good with what they had

You need to remember the talent levels that Torts had to deal with, as opposed to AV. And not sure how Renney got more of of his teams than Torts got with his.

 

[McRanger]

Yes they looked better in the playoffs than the regular season in regard to 2014 v 2015.

That's debatable, they struggled in both the '14 and '15 playoffs but they had an easier path with a healthier team in the former.

In terms of talent '15 was the better team. There a plenty of reasons they didn't win the cup but the fact that '14 failed isn't one of them.

For example, Tampa this year. Given their regular season dominance , had they won 16 games this playoffs, the cup was theirs.

If they had their best player healthy and played a garbage team in the 1st round (like they did last year) maybe they would have won. That's how playoff hockey goes. Sometimes you draw shit matchups. Sometimes you lose your best players to injury. Sometimes the better team loses.

 

[Edge]

You need to remember the talent levels that Torts had to deal with, as opposed to AV. And not sure how Renney got more of of his teams than Torts got with his.

I dunno, I always felt like Torts never quite tapped into the talent/skill of his teams those last few years. I think he got them to play defense and he had them fairly disciplined to adhere to his system, but the offense always felt like we were trying to bleed a stone.

We had the best goalie in the league, and yet our guys were constantly blocking shots and (subsequently) struggled to actually spring the offense. So while we shut down other teams, we also effectively shut ourselves down on many occasions. That became especially apparent in the playoffs when every series and game was a grind --- even by NHL playoff standards.

Whereas AV was too hands off, and that eventually caused major breakdowns, Torts was often too involved and I feel like that stifled the talent.

 

[True Blue]

Whereas AV was too hands off, and that eventually caused major breakdowns, Torts was often too involved and I feel like that stifled the talent.

Fair take. I feel like Torts had to extract blood from a stone to get his groups as far as he did. Those were not the most talent laden teams.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I dunno, I always felt like Torts never quite tapped into the talent/skill of his teams those last few years. I think he got them to play defense and he had them fairly disciplined to adhere to his system, but the offense always felt like we were trying to bleed a stone.

We had the best goalie in the league, and yet our guys were constantly blocking shots and (subsequently) struggled to actually spring the offense. So while we shut down other teams, we also effectively shut ourselves down on many occasions. That became especially apparent in the playoffs when every series and game was a grind --- even by NHL playoff standards.

Whereas AV was too hands off, and that eventually caused major breakdowns, Torts was often too involved and I feel like that stifled the talent.

Yeah...people have literally forgotten how f***ing boring those teams were, and I agree with you, I'm not sure he needed to play as tight a system as he did. Yes...it was pretty clear a few months in, that Torts was not going to turn the Rangers into the rapid fire high octane offense that we saw from mid year until the cup in 2004 in Tampa Bay [where even that year the Bolts almost felt apart due to Tort's abrasive social style], but damn...some of those games from 2010-2012 made the trap era Devils look like the flying frenchman.

 

[romba]

Voted Campbell to be 'that' guy, only to discover someone already stole my thunder. Wattawaste.