Best Playoff Performers With No Cups?

[DitchMarner]

He does, correct. 156 to be exact, and two trips to the finals and normally very effective in the playoffs (eg. even in 1993 during a sweep he had 9 assists!)

Propp follows him at 148.

Honestly, it is hard to find anyone with better postseasons and a better postseason resume than Oates, Propp and Briere at this moment. They have all the ingredients of this thread. They made the finals (5 times for Propp) did well in each long playoff run, have the career numbers, have plenty of good runs and no Cup to show for it. Not their fault.

If I could mention Dino as another guy. 73 goals, and he always scored in the playoffs. Only has the one big run as a rookie in 1981 but also made the final in 1995.

Not that plus/minus is the best stat ever, but I think it is worth mentioning that Ciccarelli was -41 in the playoffs in his career despite having good overall numbers (73 goals, 118 points in 141 games). He was a minus player in almost every single playoff run he had even though he usually produced. I don't know how relevant it is exactly, but it does make you wonder and think.

 

[The Panther]

I am not seeing it with Nicholls and Turgeon. Nicholls more so though. Like Turgeon no Cup final appearance, although he was close several times. And he did contribute (114 points in 118 games) better than Turgeon (97 points in 109 games).

Well, first, it's important to look at players in their primes, and generally discard pre- and post-prime numbers in these already-limited playoff appearances. In Pierre Turgeon's case, his (fairly long) prime was autumn 1988 to spring 2001. How did he do in the playoffs?

Turgeon scored 83 points in 88 games and went +4. I'd say that's excellent, considering that 46 of the 88 games (52%) are in the Dead-Puck Era and his teams only made it out of the first round four times (players on such teams rarely look good, and they're almost never 'plus' players overall). Of players who appeared in 40+ playoff games during that long span (13 years), Turgeon's per-game scoring of 26th place doesn't sound overly spectacular, but that puts him on even ground with players like Yzerman, Roenick, Francis, Coffey, and MacInnis (higher than some of those guys).

And, remember, he's "competing' in this stat with several players who didn't play at all in the Dead Puck Era.

If we just look at the four playoffs 1998 to 2001 (the four DPE playoffs before Turgeon's prime ended) -- and we look at players with 20+ games played -- Turgeon's ranks fourth in per-game scoring, behind only Forsberg, Jagr, and Yzerman. Jagr was one of the top-four offensive forwards of all time at his peak, and both Forsberg and Yzerman were on super-teams that won Cups. Turgeon's DPE playoff scoring here is higher than Sakic, Fedorov, Recchi, Hull....

Then, Nicholls -- looking at his peak period only of playoff appearances 1987 to 1992 (six playoffs in a row) -- he scored 69 points in 52 games, ranking him (of players with 20+ games played) 5th overall, behind only Lemieux, Gretzky, Recchi, and Messier (again, all Cup winners in this period). Per game, he outscored Hull, Stevens, Kurri, Oates, Lafontaine.... (all Hall of Famers).

Outside of those 'peak' years, if we extend to the entirety of Nicholls' prime (his 1985 to 1996 playoffs), his results are a bit less impressive, but he still ranks (among players with 40+ games) 16th in per-game playoff scoring, equal with Yzerman (and with better ES results in terms of plus/minus).

 

[Crosby2010]

Not that plus/minus is the best stat ever, but I think it is worth mentioning that Ciccarelli was -41 in the playoffs in his career despite having good overall numbers (73 goals, 118 points in 141 games). He was a minus player in almost every single playoff run he had even though he usually produced. I don't know how relevant it is exactly, but it does make you wonder and think.

I think that is what bothered Bowman and why Dino was gone after 1996. He became a bit more of a liability. His style wasn't known for racking up plus minus numbers, he was the garbage collector with his goals more or less. No doubt he had the intensity, but I do think he lacked the defensive play and even sometimes good judgment when it came to crunch time. He scored a lot though no doubt.

Well, first, it's important to look at players in their primes, and generally discard pre- and post-prime numbers in these already-limited playoff appearances. In Pierre Turgeon's case, his (fairly long) prime was autumn 1988 to spring 2001. How did he do in the playoffs?

Turgeon scored 83 points in 88 games and went +4. I'd say that's excellent, considering that 46 of the 88 games (52%) are in the Dead-Puck Era and his teams only made it out of the first round four times (players on such teams rarely look good, and they're almost never 'plus' players overall). Of players who appeared in 40+ playoff games during that long span (13 years), Turgeon's per-game scoring of 26th place doesn't sound overly spectacular, but that puts him on even ground with players like Yzerman, Roenick, Francis, Coffey, and MacInnis (higher than some of those guys).

And, remember, he's "competing' in this stat with several players who didn't play at all in the Dead Puck Era.

If we just look at the four playoffs 1998 to 2001 (the four DPE playoffs before Turgeon's prime ended) -- and we look at players with 20+ games played -- Turgeon's ranks fourth in per-game scoring, behind only Forsberg, Jagr, and Yzerman. Jagr was one of the top-four offensive forwards of all time at his peak, and both Forsberg and Yzerman were on super-teams that won Cups. Turgeon's DPE playoff scoring here is higher than Sakic, Fedorov, Recchi, Hull....

Then, Nicholls -- looking at his peak period only of playoff appearances 1987 to 1992 (six playoffs in a row) -- he scored 69 points in 52 games, ranking him (of players with 20+ games played) 5th overall, behind only Lemieux, Gretzky, Recchi, and Messier (again, all Cup winners in this period). Per game, he outscored Hull, Stevens, Kurri, Oates, Lafontaine.... (all Hall of Famers).

Outside of those 'peak' years, if we extend to the entirety of Nicholls' prime (his 1985 to 1996 playoffs), his results are a bit less impressive, but he still ranks (among players with 40+ games) 16th in per-game playoff scoring, equal with Yzerman (and with better ES results in terms of plus/minus).

I think especially in Turgeon's case here there had to be some fancy shuffling around to make him look decent. With Nicholls is isn't quite as bad because I am not sure if he cost his teams going further. And he routinely got his teams out of the 1st round. Turgeon though, he has a bit of a Phil Housley-like record in the playoffs. The one time Housley went to the final he had a paltry 4 assists in 18 games and I think they scratched him in the Cup final at one point. The best defenseman was Gonchar for the Caps in the playoffs. Turgeon it looks similar. Normally a 1st round exit and not always dogged with poor teams either. Might have run into the Red Wings a couple of times and I am not saying he had to win that series, but where is the good playoff run for him? I think with a guy like Alfredsson (who I am okay is in the HHOF) he has that nice run in 2007 and everyone forgets that he never did anything the previous years despite having Cup favourite teams he was playing on. Nothing worth noting until 2007 and some bad postseasons where he no doubt helped cost his team going further. 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2006, etc. Not good ones. He made up for it a bit, but I still would never call him a legendary playoff performer. I think he is to blame more than either one of Nicholls or Turgeon because he played on better teams. Alfredsson is a bit like Thornton that way in the playoffs.

I don't know, I just thought those guys looked out of place on a list of non-Cup winners. Nicholls is probably the best of that bunch in crunch time. There was at least several long playoff runs for him. Not to mention Nicholls almost banged in the goal that would have sent them to overtime just before the Matteau goal in 1994. I'd say he was decent in the playoffs, but it is hard when the player himself didn't even get to the dance once. My thought.

 

[EpochLink]

Danny Briere, Joe Pavelski, Brian Propp, Adam Oates, Cam Neely were good playoff performers.

 

[RussianShark]

Logan Couture. His energy could lift the whole team up, just not enough for a cup

 

[The Panther]

Logan Couture. His energy could lift the whole team up, just not enough for a cup

This is a really good nomination for this thread. I mean, I hated Couture because he routinely killed the Oilers, but I have great admiration for the game he brought (Pavelski also).

After his rookie year, Couture scored 97 points in 101 playoff games (six of these eight playoff appearances in low-scoring seasons). That's quite remarkable for a guy who was getting 50-60 points per regular season.

 

[VanIslander]

Three come to mind, each unmentioned yet.

1. Bernie Federko. The HHOF pivot never made the Stanley Cup Finals, producing so well in a conference finals run that no one in the NHL scored more than him in the entire playoffs!

2. Tony Esposito. The HHOF goalie led the league in playoff save percentage in backstopping Chicago to a Game 7 Stanley Cup Finals run against the dynasty Habs.

3. Mats Sundin. He led the Leafs in playoff goals and points to multiple conference finals (including a Game 7), but didn't have the supporting cast to get to the Stanley Cup Finals. #wastedinTO

 

[Gorskyontario]

Pierre Turgeon played by far the best playoff hockey(and regular season) of his career with the blues. Everywhere else I thought he was soft and disengaged.

Nicholls was fine in the playoffs, shame he wasn't on the 95 devils. Maybe they still win with him instead of Broten. Hard to say.

 

[Michael Farkas]

2. Tony Esposito. The HHOF goalie led the league in playoff save percentage in backstopping Chicago to a Game 7 Stanley Cup Finals run against the dynasty Habs.

From 1972-1983 (the vast majority of his career) he...

Led the league in playoff losses (42)* - followed by Parent (25), Bouchard (24), Dryden (24), Smith (24)
Was 24th in playoff save pct. (min. 4 GP) in that span at .896;
30th in playoff GAA

Compared to the regular season, where he was 1st in wins during that span by almost 100 over second place. 5th in save pc.t, 15th in GAA, 1st in shutouts.

* - still starting in 1972, it would take another goalie a full decade to pass him in playoff losses (Kelly Hrudey did it during the '93 Final)

Guys that play will eventually lose, but Tony O lost like, what, 15 or 16 playoff games in a row or something in his early 30's...? That's a lot of yuck for a "best playoff performer" thread...

 

[VanIslander]

He still did what he did in the 1971playoffs. An all-time great performance.

In the regular season, he faced a lot of expansion teams. In the playoffs: the Habs, Flyers & Bruins. (Chicago was the only O6 team in the West division, with all expansion teams! whereas Montreal, Boston, New York, Toronto and Detroit had to battle it out in the East!)

 

[McGarnagle]

I was going to say Tuukka Rask but remembered he technically is on the cup as a backup despite not playing a minute in the playoffs that year.

But he has two downright elite performances that just fell a little bit short and gets a lot of crap for not ever winning a cup on his own. But what he did in 2013 to the Penguins was unbelievable and he would've been unanimous Conn Smythe if they could win just one more game in 2019.