Best playoff performance individually since 2000?

[Michael Farkas]

Malkin created the turnover that got the ball rolling for Pittsburgh in game 7. Talbot's first.

 

[ottawa]

Thomas is the clear answer here imo.

 

[K Fleur]

Malkin "only" had one point over the last 3 games of the '09 finals(Pens scored 4 goals over those 3 games). Malkin did go about 28/28 in the handshake line. Gave Detroit what they really cared about that June.

 

[quoipourquoi]

My vote goes to Tim Thomas. Yeah, it's a goalie's league nowadays, but his numbers were special during that Cup run.

In a short sprint like the Stanley Cup Playoffs, it actually does make sense to highlight goaltenders, as they exert the greatest direct influence on the scoreboard and are the most likely to have statistical anomalies over 16-28 games.

 

[Trap Jesus]

Keith in 2015, can't believe he's not an option. Even though it was kind of trending that way already, the Hawks reached a point after Rozsival's injury going into the Conference Final where they may as well not have had a bottom pairing. And despite that, Keith still averaged 3.5 minutes more per game than anyone else on the team in the last 2 rounds, after averaging 6 more minutes than anyone else when they had Rozsival in to help take some pressure off the Hawks 2-4 D-men in the first 2 rounds.

I know the stigma behind +/- and how it can be taken out of context, but the guy was +16 in the playoffs while playing more than half the game, and the next closest on the team was +7. He also kept pace with Toews and Kane offensively.

 

[The Pale King]

I admit I really didn't like either of the Pens or the Wings teams we saw in the back-to-back finals, but going back and watching parts of the games and reading about them again, I really like that Zetterberg run in '08. I would certainly list it as an option over Ward and Ovechkin. Probably Couture as well.

That said, I went with Quick though, a homer vote for sure. But as a long-time Kings fan, I couldn't believe how "easy"and anxiety free that 2012 run felt to watch from home. As an 8 seed? Knocking off the 1-2-3 seeds in the west? Are you kidding me? It was like watching a different sport compared to the all the other playoff hockey I've watched (with an emotional attachment to, or w/e you want to call being a fan).

As someone mentioned up-thread (and I'll confirm here): one bad goal against in the whole playoffs. The Derek Morris goal in game 1 of the WCF, long slapper from center ice. Other than that, Quick was absolutely lights out. And that Vancouver team they beat in 5 games is pretty underrated, honestly.

I think Thomas in '11 and Quick in '14 are better comparables than '12 Quick and Thomas. Stability-wise, at least.

 

[K Fleur]

Zetterberg in '08 was a better performance than atleast 3 of the poll options. Probably more.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Yeah, Keith's performance here especially - not being in over 2018, 2016, 2011, 2006, etc. is really odd. I don't think those really need to be choices here for me...

 

[danincanada]

That a different team wins 8 out of 12 games with .939 goaltending in a different playoff run doesn’t really say anything about Peter Forsberg in 2002. Says more about Patrick Roy in 2001.

Forsberg recorded points on 50% of his team’s goals in the 2002 playoffs. The only forwards with a positive +/- were Forsberg (+8) and his linemates, Drury and Reinprecht. Their line scored 9 of the team’s 11 game-winning goals, 4 of which were Forsberg’s.

I’m not pretending he was on his own, and the statistical normalization of offense relative to opponent strength that places Forsberg’s 2002 directly behind Gretzky and Lemieux in the four-round era doesn’t even regard this.

But I’m also not pretending that the 2002 Colorado Avalanche performed as well as the 2001 Colorado Avalanche. That the 2002 team only went 11-10 and not 16-7 like they did the year before has little to do with any individual player (maybe Hejduk?).

You’re right that it obviously actually wasnt the same team. Kasper in for Bourque is another example why.

Overall the disappearing act Forsberg did in the last two games impacts his playoff performance overall in ‘02 though and there’s no disputing it. You keep bringing up Wayne and Mario but in their best playoff performances they never came up pointless in the last two critical games like that. That’s a huge difference. Guys who made it to the finals and followed through to the end should be ranked higher than a guy who was awesome up until the last two games of the WCF when his team got shutout both games. As the playoffs go on players are supposed to get better and perform as the stakes get higher. Didn’t happen here and it matters.

 

[GreatGonzo]

The East was relatively weak that year and the two Pens didn't face any elite shut down guys...until the finals. Then Crosby did get shutdown by the Zetterberg/Lidstrom combo while Malkin got to face a puck bobbling Brad Stuart/Filppula combination. Malkin produced but if the match ups were reversed we may have seen Crosby produce instead. Give credit where credit is due but like many here, let's give it some context.

That still doesn’t excuse the fact that Crosby faced the same team(only stronger) and did much better the previous year than ‘09. People keep recycling these stupid excuses totally trying to take the heat off Crosby for not showing up when it counted, which he didn’t.

The “context” you add only adds to the idea that it isn’t Crosby’s fault, only the other team was better at shutting him down. It wasn’t that’s Malkin was so great, but that He was a product of Crosby having the tougher match ups. It contradicts your “give credit” statement. Let’s just call it for what it is instead of constantly having to defend Crosby whenever he plays poorly.

 

[danincanada]

That still doesn’t excuse the fact that Crosby faced the same team(only stronger) and did much better the previous year than ‘09. People keep recycling these stupid excuses totally trying to take the heat off Crosby for not showing up when it counted, which he didn’t.

The “context” you add only adds to the idea that it isn’t Crosby’s fault, only the other team was better at shutting him down. It wasn’t that’s Malkin was so great, but that He was a product of Crosby having the tougher match ups. It contradicts your “give credit” statement. Let’s just call it for what it is instead of constantly having to defend Crosby whenever he plays poorly.

Crosby definitely produced more in ‘08 but I’m not so sure he actually performed any better. He had Hossa on his wing, who could be argued was their best forward in that series, but he was shutdown completely in the first two games and only really made a mark in the series a few times after that. Malkin was certainly much better in ‘09 and the Kronwall-Stuart pairing was worse.

I never said anything about it not being Crosby’s fault or defending him but he definitely drew the main attention of the Red Wings. It’s the truth.

 

[BenchBrawl]

See I think the TOI is actually a little overstated. Chicago played four long OT games that bumped his average up to an unfathomable 31:07, but he exceeded 30:00 in less than one-third of his games.

His median of 29:07 is more or less in-line with the other highly regarded runs from defensemen since 2000: Chris Pronger (29:13 in 2006, 30:39 in 2007, 28:11 in 2010), Erik Karlsson (28:44 in 2017), Nicklas Lidstrom (29:49 in 2002).

While Erik Karlsson played just 19 games to Duncan Keith’s 23, I’d submit it as the best playoff run from a defenseman since 2000. Ottawa had a 26:11 ratio of even strength scoring with Karlsson on the ice; 14:25 without. An insane offensive highlight reel.

True. Still, with Chicago in 2015 it felt like less of a choice to play Keith those kind of minutes. It felt like if they didn't do it - if they cut his minutes even slightly, it would have been a disaster. Is this true for Pronger or Lidstrom? I'm trying to rationalize and put into words what was a crystal clear perception at the time: That Keith was more crucial to his team than any non-goalie Smythe winner for a long time.

Karlsson is a special case - like you say he might be the best run by a defenseman since 2000. But he didn't win so it's still a knock on the value of the performance, as silly as that sounds considering Ottawa's lineup.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Crosby was held to 3 points in 6.5 games in the 09 final but I recall his line creating many chances. His line was extremely snake bitten. No excuse of course. He did lead the 17 finals in scoring. A nice feather on his cap.

 

[Nick Hansen]

I'd rather have Seabrook, Hjalmarsson and Oduya behind me than Jason Smith, Jaroslav Spacek and Steve Staios (all solid guys but not comparable to Seabs or Hjalmarsson, Oduya being more or less similar to the Oilers players)...

 

[Boonk]

Wheres Keith in 2015? Guy went berzerk that year.

 

[McRpro]

Giguere gets my vote.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Overall the disappearing act Forsberg did in the last two games impacts his playoff performance overall in ‘02 though and there’s no disputing it.

Sure. It’s the difference between scoring 27 points in 20 games versus 27 points in 18 games. I think holding any more against him than that is maybe asking too much for an individual contributor on a 17-point underdog whose line was the only one to escape the 7-0 game without a minus (they did have a Drury goal waived off if I recall).

It’s a DPE playoff in which 25 total shutouts were recorded. 0 on that statsheet is probably a little different than if it were to happen in, say, the 1980s or early 1990s. Even Evgeni Malkin was blanked twice in a row in the Finals (including a game with the series on the line) in a playoff that saw half as many shutouts as 2002. I don’t think any player here is going to have a spotless score-or-shutout-every-game record.

 

[nowhereman]

The 2009 Pens weren't the deepest of rosters but Malkin did have another player in Sid putting up a post-season that could probably be on this list.

Giguere carried that Ducks team on his back.

 

[GuineaPig]

It’s a DPE playoff in which 25 total shutouts were recorded. 0 on that statsheet is probably a little different than if it were to happen in, say, the 1980s or early 1990s. Even Evgeni Malkin was blanked twice in a row in the Finals (including a game with the series on the line) in a playoff that saw half as many shutouts as 2002. I don’t think any player here is going to have a spotless score-or-shutout-every-game record.

You can always tell a bad-faith argument is coming when someone starts by limiting the sample size to a few games

Hockey is a probabilistic game. You can play great and not put up any points. You can play terrible and a blind screen-shot from the point deflects in off your ankle. There are better arguments to make then whether a player scored in 2 specific games or not

 

[danincanada]

You can always tell a bad-faith argument is coming when someone starts by limiting the sample size to a few games

Hockey is a probabilistic game. You can play great and not put up any points. You can play terrible and a blind screen-shot from the point deflects in off your ankle. There are better arguments to make then whether a player scored in 2 specific games or not

Except it wasn’t just that Forsberg didn’t get on the score sheet those two games, he was very quiet as well. I’m a Wings fan so I’ve watched those games many times since. His team needed him to be Peter Forsberg but he only showed a few glimpses of it and that matters when we are talking about the playoffs and a series in on the line.

 

[danincanada]

Sure. It’s the difference between scoring 27 points in 20 games versus 27 points in 18 games. I think holding any more against him than that is maybe asking too much for an individual contributor on a 17-point underdog whose line was the only one to escape the 7-0 game without a minus (they did have a Drury goal waived off if I recall).

It’s a DPE playoff in which 25 total shutouts were recorded. 0 on that statsheet is probably a little different than if it were to happen in, say, the 1980s or early 1990s. Even Evgeni Malkin was blanked twice in a row in the Finals (including a game with the series on the line) in a playoff that saw half as many shutouts as 2002. I don’t think any player here is going to have a spotless score-or-shutout-every-game record.

You’re attempting to look at it like it’s the last 2 games of the regular season and you’ve already secured a playoff spot and will live another day. This is the playoffs and game 6 and 7 against in a monstrous series. Being quiet and getting shut down puts a damper on everything that came before that cause you go home - it’s over and your rival moves on.

The Avs were a 17 point underdog during a season where they didn’t have Forsberg at all...the guy you often claim was the best player in the world. They had him for that series so didn’t that close the gap too much to trot you the underdog card?

He was great overall in those playoffs, no doubt. There was a lot missing at the end though with those two final games and lacking a trip to the finals compared to most of the other great performances here.

 

[pandro]

Reading this thread makes me appreciate Chris Pronger even more. Truly one of the select group of players that could put a team on their back and drag it to the finals. He's probably the only non-goalie from the established timeframe the you could say that about.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Reading this thread makes me appreciate Chris Pronger even more. Truly one of the select group of players that could put a team on their back and drag it to the finals. He's probably the only non-goalie from the established timeframe the you could say that about.

I've said it before: I believe Chris Pronger was the most valuable player in the world for about 5 years post-2005 lockout. Meaning, building a team I pick him 1st overall in that window.

 

[VanIslander]

Giguere carried that Ducks team on his back.

Pfff. Rookie NHL coach Babcock showed his genius in defensive play.

Coaching greatness often results in goalie or captain Conn Smythe trophy wins by default.

Babcock gave Steve Rucchin and Rob Niedermayer the most ice time among forwards, more than Kariya.

Babcock then went to Detroit and immediately ripped off four 50+ win seasons before leading Canada to the 2010 Olympic gold.

It was a team defensive effort of effective puck management, something Babcock taught other NHL coaches to emulate.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Reading this thread makes me appreciate Chris Pronger even more. Truly one of the select group of players that could put a team on their back and drag it to the finals. He's probably the only non-goalie from the established timeframe the you could say that about.

I was kinda surprised by how high his median TOI was in 2007. Figured he would have played more in 2006 than with Anaheim who could lean on Niedermayer. His even-strength GF:GA ratios came in at 20:10 to Niedermayer’s 16:14 in that run.

Maybe the best ratio I’ve seen from a defenseman since 2000 is Stevens in 2003 (22:8). Chelios’ 27:12 in 2002 (to Lidstrom’s 22:16) despite drawing the West Coast Express and Forsberg assignments is up there as well. Karlsson’s was similar at 26:13.

Keith’s 36:20 in 2015 is great as well, though maybe a little more exciting on both ends of the ice.