Best playoff performance individually since 2000?

[Pominville Knows]

Regarding Thomas, how is it that the view of his performance is so god awfully polarized? It is much more so than most if not perhaps all performances ever.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Regarding Thomas, how is it that the view of his performance is so god awfully polarized? It is much more so than most if not perhaps all performances ever.

because Bruins

happens to most Bruins topics, mostly because our 2 biggest rivals are also the 2 biggest and most vocal fanbases...Montreal and Toronto

 

[TheGuiminator]

I'm consistently surprised by how much praise Malkin gets for 2009. To me he wasn't even the best Penguin that year, let alone the best in the 21st century

Crosby scored 5 fewer points, yes, but also faced tougher matchups, played better defence, and wasn't massively undisciplined (Malkin had 51 PIM, include 18 minor penalties)

I’d say Crosby and Malkin were neck to neck before the SCF that year. I would even give a slight edge to Crosby. But once the SCF begun, the Crosby of previous rounds was nowhere to be found and Malkin was clearly better.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Regarding Thomas, how is it that the view of his performance is so god awfully polarized? It is much more so than most if not perhaps all performances ever.

Tampa Bay lit him up four times and usually that’s enough to knock out a team, but man, those Finals were something else. Probably the best Finals since 2000 from any player.

I could see people holding the negative aspects against him and I could also see people being softer on those negative aspects in light of how he performed otherwise.

 

[quoipourquoi]

I'm consistently surprised by how much praise Malkin gets for 2009. To me he wasn't even the best Penguin that year, let alone the best in the 21st century

Crosby scored 5 fewer points, yes, but also faced tougher matchups, played better defence, and wasn't massively undisciplined (Malkin had 51 PIM, include 18 minor penalties)

I’m with you on this. Penguins faced high-GA teams all playoffs and Malkin was a secondary target. Against Detroit, it’s almost as if he created room for himself because of how terrible he was in the 2008 Finals. Still one of the top runs here, but I wouldn’t put it next to Giguere, who was a statistical anomaly through the Western Conference playoffs.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Regarding Thomas, how is it that the view of his performance is so god awfully polarized? It is much more so than most if not perhaps all performances ever.

The reason it's so awfully polarized is because of how polarized the performance itself was...with the amount of just awful goals he let in during that run (compared to Quick the very next year, for instance...who gave up, what, one?) it shouldn't be too surprising...

Can't win games on saves, you lose them on bad goals against...

 

[K Fleur]

The reason it's so awfully polarized is because of how polarized the performance itself was...with the amount of just awful goals he let in during that run (compared to Quick the very next year, for instance...who gave up, what, one?) it shouldn't be too surprising...

Can't win games on saves, you lose them on bad goals against...

See and here I was Mike almost certain you were one of the five votes for Thomas

 

[GuineaPig]

Can't win games on saves, you lose them on bad goals against...

How does one prevent goals except by making saves?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Search me...that's not what I said though.

 

[danincanada]

You have a very good memory...

He seems to have blanked out the last two games of the 2002 WCF finals from his memory though. Forsberg was absolutely great up until that point but he kind of disappeared in those last two games when his team was trying to win one to get to the finals. Shouldn't that discount him from such a lofty list?

I agree with some about Malkin as well. He was great, no question, but he really didn't need to face any elite shutdown defenders throughout the playoffs and that helped. Didn't have to face a healthy Datsyuk in the finals, either. Crosby was the guy drawing all the attention in the finals.

 

[The Panther]

Oh yes, the old "elite shutdown defenders" argument.

Every elite scorer ever faced good shutdown defenders in the Final. Crosby earns no mulligans for poor production when the Cup was on the line.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Keith was special because Chicago's blueline was so crippled and vulnerable. He ate a lot of TOI and stepped up monstruously. It wasn't a matter of excelling in the key moments or a collection of big plays (like most Smythes) but of pure functionality; without him that team was collapsing like a house of card.

See I think the TOI is actually a little overstated. Chicago played four long OT games that bumped his average up to an unfathomable 31:07, but he exceeded 30:00 in less than one-third of his games.

His median of 29:07 is more or less in-line with the other highly regarded runs from defensemen since 2000: Chris Pronger (29:13 in 2006, 30:39 in 2007, 28:11 in 2010), Erik Karlsson (28:44 in 2017), Nicklas Lidstrom (29:49 in 2002).

While Erik Karlsson played just 19 games to Duncan Keith’s 23, I’d submit it as the best playoff run from a defenseman since 2000. Ottawa had a 26:11 ratio of even strength scoring with Karlsson on the ice; 14:25 without. An insane offensive highlight reel.

 

[quoipourquoi]

He seems to have blanked out the last two games of the 2002 WCF finals from his memory though. Forsberg was absolutely great up until that point but he kind of disappeared in those last two games when his team was trying to win one to get to the finals. Shouldn't that discount him from such a lofty list?

When scoring is adjusted for opponent strength, it’s the first name that comes up after Wayne Gretzky’s and Mario Lemieux’s since the start of the four-round era, making it the highest since 2000, so no.

 

[K Fleur]

Has it been mentioned that Forsberg lead the playoffs in scoring without even making the finals yet?

It’s page 2 of an HFboards thread so I’ll just assume yes.

 

[danincanada]

Oh yes, the old "elite shutdown defenders" argument.

Every elite scorer ever faced good shutdown defenders in the Final. Crosby earns no mulligans for poor production when the Cup was on the line.

The East was relatively weak that year and the two Pens didn't face any elite shut down guys...until the finals. Then Crosby did get shutdown by the Zetterberg/Lidstrom combo while Malkin got to face a puck bobbling Brad Stuart/Filppula combination. Malkin produced but if the match ups were reversed we may have seen Crosby produce instead. Give credit where credit is due but like many here, let's give it some context.

 

[sr edler]

because Bruins

There are plenty of Bruins players not being polarizing (Orr, Bourque, Neely, Bergeron, Chara, Krejci, Pastrnak, Rask, Brimsek, et cetera).

You'll probably have to deal with Lucic, Marchand, Thomas and Julien being polarizing just like fans of other teams have to deal with some players on their teams being polarizing. That's just what happens when some your players are dirty and diving and your coach is a hypocrite of almost Biblical proportions.

When it comes to Thomas' actual performance in 2011, he didn't carry a bunch of nobodies, and he did it with a system suspect game. Chara, Bergeron and Recchi are all HHOFers. Krejci, leading the playoffs in scoring twice. Seidenberg and Boychuk on defense. They just had a very strong solid team depth wise.

Some VAN fan posted a video of Thomas' supposedly miraculous saves during the 2011 playoffs (especially the finals) here on this site. Some were good, sure, but most were just a bunch of random saves. Saves happens in a hockey game. They will especially when it's H. Sedin throwing muffins at you from the perimeter with his undeadly shot.

 

[danincanada]

When scoring is adjusted for opponent strength, it’s the first name that comes up after Wayne Gretzky’s and Mario Lemieux’s since the start of the four-round era, making it the highest since 2000, so no.

So only having 1 shot and only a couple note worthy shifts in two deciding games for a trip to the finals doesn't matter? That should absolutely limit his ranking in this thread. As you would say, "he couldn't stop the bleeding".

 

[quoipourquoi]

So only having 1 shot and only a couple note worthy shifts in two deciding games for a trip to the finals doesn't matter? That should absolutely limit his ranking in this thread. As you would say, "he couldn't stop the bleeding".

Is there a rule that the best player in a 16-team playoff needs to be on the best team? That Colorado had “deciding games” might have had to do with Forsberg’s 8 points across Games 2-5, in which Colorado took 3 wins and an OT loss.

On a better squad - one that doesn’t get outshot 42-21 in that 2-1 OT loss, for instance - we may have seen an extension of Colorado’s (and subsequently Forsberg’s) playoff, but it doesn’t really change what Forsberg did individually.

The Globe and Mail; June 13, 2002

The Conn Smythe Trophy guessing games began soon after Detroit won its third game of the Stanley Cup final and Red Wing Brendan Shanahan had a question: "Can Peter Forsberg still win it? That doesn't happen too often, does it?"

 

[Pominville Knows]

Tampa Bay lit him up four times and usually that’s enough to knock out a team, but man, those Finals were something else. Probably the best Finals since 2000 from any player.

I could see people holding the negative aspects against him and I could also see people being softer on those negative aspects in light of how he performed otherwise.

Yeah i remembered that he got lit up a number of times, but Tampa Bay won three of the four games in question. Surely there are skaters on the team as well? Or are we expecting that a single player will win the Stanley Cup by playing one-on-six hockey on the opponents?

 

[VanIslander]

There are plenty of Bruins players not being polarizing (.... Krejci, Pastrnak, Rask, Brimsek,....

Seriously? Plenty of Rask-ain't-great posters out there and regarding the other three, ... outside Boston, the silence is DEAFENING!

 

[danincanada]

Is there a rule that the best player in a 16-team playoff needs to be on the best team? That Colorado had “deciding games” might have had to do with Forsberg’s 8 points across Games 2-5, in which Colorado took 3 wins and an OT loss.

On a better squad - one that doesn’t get outshot 42-21 in that 2-1 OT loss, for instance - we may have seen an extension of Colorado’s (and subsequently Forsberg’s) playoff, but it doesn’t really change what Forsberg did individually.

The Globe and Mail; June 13, 2002

The Conn Smythe Trophy guessing games began soon after Detroit won its third game of the Stanley Cup final and Red Wing Brendan Shanahan had a question: "Can Peter Forsberg still win it? That doesn't happen too often, does it?"

I knew I should have beat you to the Shanahan quote. Darn, I knew it was coming.

You're trying to say Forsberg was so incredible that he belongs # 2 on this list but he went silent in those two crucial games. It matters, even if you can't bring yourself to admit it. He was on a great team that won it all practically without him the year before so let's not pretend he was on his own here. He simply stopped producing at the most critical time so it must be held against him here.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Yeah i remembered that he got lit up a number of times, but Tampa Bay won three of the four games in question. Surely there are skaters on the team as well? Or are we expecting that a single player will win the Stanley Cup by playing one-on-six hockey on the opponents?

In a 7-game series, I’m of the opinion that as long as a goaltender delivers 4 or 5 great games, I don’t care as much about 1 or 2 blowouts; they gave you a winnable series.

29/33
36/41
31/31
32/36
33/34
21/26
24/24

I think most people looking at a breakdown of those games would assume the goaltender definitely won 2, probably won 3, and likely lost 4 - making it a losing series.

It’s not terrible that the best player in a playoff may have needed to be bailed out by his teammates in a team game, but he is in exclusive company in a thread like this, and usually 4 unsatisfactory games out of 7 is a death sentence.

By contrast, Giguere’s easily criticizable Finals series saw games of 27/29, 29/31, 26/26, and 26/28 (with lesser games of 22/25, 31/37, and 22/25). While not a highlight series, I would at least consider it winnable goaltending.

On the flip side, if one puts a premium on Finals performance, Thomas and Roy gave their teams 6 strong opportunities for victory out of 7, while Quick probably went 6 for 6:

33/34, 30/33, 40/41, 38/38, 24/25, 36/38, 37/37

25/25, 18/20, 21/22, 32/35, 22/26, 24/24, 25/26

16/17, 32/33, 22/22, 21/23, 17/19, 17/18

Top Round 4 Performances, 1980-2017
Error Rate vs. Expectation
1. Patrick Roy, 1996 (24.8% on 151 shots)
2. Billy Smith, 1983 (29.5% on 128 shots)
3. Tim Thomas, 2011 (33.2% on 246 shots)
4. Bill Ranford, 1990 (46.2% on 156 shots)
5. Mike Vernon, 1997 (53.4% on 108 shots)
6. Patrick Roy, 2001 (54.2% on 178 shots)
7. Jonathan Quick, 2012 (55.2% on 132 shots)
8. Corey Crawford, 2015 (58.0% on 161 shots)
9. Dominik Hasek, 1999 (58.3% on 198 shots)
10. Patrick Roy, 1993 (60.1% on 155 shots)

 

[brachyrynchos]

Sakic in 2001 playoffs was pretty good. 21-13-13-26, led the playoffs in goals, points, tied for 1st powerplay goals and game winners, 2nd even strength goals, and tied 4th in assists. Had a point in 16 of his 21 games, 10 of 12 in the conference finals and finals with Forsberg injured. 5-4-4-8 vs STL, 7-4-5-9 vs NJ.
2009 Malkin was in the zone, points in 18 of 24. Stellar performance.

 

[quoipourquoi]

He was on a great team that won it all practically without him the year before so let's not pretend he was on his own here.

That a different team wins 8 out of 12 games with .939 goaltending in a different playoff run doesn’t really say anything about Peter Forsberg in 2002. Says more about Patrick Roy in 2001.

Forsberg recorded points on 50% of his team’s goals in the 2002 playoffs. The only forwards with a positive +/- were Forsberg (+8) and his linemates, Drury and Reinprecht. Their line scored 9 of the team’s 11 game-winning goals, 4 of which were Forsberg’s.

I’m not pretending he was on his own, and the statistical normalization of offense relative to opponent strength that places Forsberg’s 2002 directly behind Gretzky and Lemieux in the four-round era doesn’t even regard this.

But I’m also not pretending that the 2002 Colorado Avalanche performed as well as the 2001 Colorado Avalanche. That the 2002 team only went 11-10 and not 16-7 like they did the year before has little to do with any individual player (maybe Hejduk?).

 

[GMR]

Honestly, I don't remember Malkin doing squat in the last three games of the 2009 Finals. Did he even score a point? They ultimately won the series on shot blocking and goaltending. Not offense. Just like the season before, Malkin ran out of gas by the time the Finals were up.

My vote goes to Tim Thomas. Yeah, it's a goalie's league nowadays, but his numbers were special during that Cup run.