Best Player In the World

[Canadiens1958]

Position

Perhaps a parallel approach would be to look at the importantance of positions during the last 100 years in 25 season segments. NHL and in the hockey world. Granted there will be overlap, always is.


Example, first 25 years with little substituition and lack of roster depth, forwards would drop back to play defence to rest or to extend a career - Dit Clapper.

Likewise, goalies seem to have been undervalued.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/w/wortero01.html

While goalies were expected to play all the games without a back-up on the bench, teams would lend a regular goalie to an opposing team in an emergency situation. See Roy Worters:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/w/wortero01.html

The last 25 seasons, forwards, especially wingers have little value compared to previous eras.

Jonathan Marchessault, 30 goals but a -21 is deemed expendable. Do not remember another expansion where a young,26 years old, 30 goal scorer, granted only once in his career, was exposed in an expansion draft.

 

[psycat]

I know this much, sans Bobby Orr no defenceman could ever be hailed as the worlds best player on this site- Else Karlsson would be the last 5 years or so.

Crosby is a dime a dozen superstar peak-wise and still there is apparently no room for a defenceman to be ranked higher.

 

[Beau Knows]

I know this much, sans Bobby Orr no defenceman could ever be hailed as the worlds best player on this site- Else Karlsson would be the last 5 years or so.

There aren't many in the entire hockey world who think Karlsson is the best in the world.

Hart trophy:
0 wins
3 times in the top 10 (8th, 9th, 9th)

Lindsay Award:
0 wins
0 times a finalist

 

[seventieslord]

There aren't many in the entire hockey world who think Karlsson is the best in the world.

Hart trophy:
0 wins
3 times in the top 10 (8th, 9th, 9th)

Lindsay Award:
0 wins
0 times a finalist

...let's all agree he deserved better than this though.... right?

 

[psycat]

There aren't many in the entire hockey world who think Karlsson is the best in the world.

Hart trophy:
0 wins
3 times in the top 10 (8th, 9th, 9th)

Lindsay Award:
0 wins
0 times a finalist

Ok im sry if offended you, obviously I shouldnt have targeted HFboards alone when infact it's the "whole hockey world". Fact is defencemen(and not only Karlsson, even if I used him as an example since Crosby is really avarage peak-wise, were as beating a Lemieux or Gretzky obviously would be something entirely different) got short-changed.

 

[daver]

Anyone else think Howe should be still there with Howe for the 63/64 season? Only one year removed from his 6th AR and another dominating playoff performance to go with his unparalleled track record to that point.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Selanne in 06-07.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Selanne in 06-07.

Based on what? He was 4th in RW voting and 9th in Hart, 3rd in goals and not even top 10 in points

 

[Wrath]

Defensemen do seem to fare the worst in Hart voting (and maybe Lindsay/Pearson voting too? Haven't looked into it).

Obviously forwards do the best, partially because there's no voted upon award for best forward (like the Norris/Vezina).

I find it strange that goalies tend to get way more Hart nominations (top 3) and wins, see Bobrovsky getting a nomination recently over Karlsson.

 

[Whaleafs]

2002: Jagr/Lemieux/Lidstrom/Forsberg???
2001: Jaromir Jagr
2000: Jaromir Jagr

Personally I'd have Iginla in at least one of those years, probably 2.
2001 & 2002.

 

[daver]

Personally I'd have Iginla in at least one of those years, probably 2.
2001 & 2002.

I don't think his one peak season was good enough to unseat Jagr in 2002. He wasn't close to the best in 2000/01.

Looking back at the list Jagr did not play enough games to warrant a co-best in 96/97 or add Lindros to the list if Jagr is added.

 

[livewell68]

Because Mario actually DID over FULL seasons.
Crosby has yet to dominate to any where close the level Mario did over a FULL season.
Mario had boatloads of credit built up, Sid does NOT!

Mario comes back after recovering from freakin Cancer and blows away his own teammate (Jagr) by 12 points despite playing 12 less games and blows the rest of the field (Sakic) away by a staggering 41 points.
2.30 PpG vs 1.82 and 1.46

Please stop trying to bring this up over and over like it's remotely the same situation. It's not!
Mario DID, Crosby didn't/hasn't period!!!

What season are you talking about Lemieux blowing away Jagr? 1995-96? The season in which he got to sit out an entire while resting?

 

[NoMessi]

I think this is a bit of a disrespect towards Malkin. Before his injuries, many considered Malkin to be among the 3 Best along with Ovechkin and Crosby.

He won an Art Ross, was runner up to Ovechkin twice for the Hart, was runner for the Art Ross once as well to Ovechkin and won a Calder and Conn Smythe, this was all in his first 3 seasons before injuries stalled his rise to the top.

Heck people are still predicting his comeback to the top and some are picking him to win the Art Ross this coming season.

I agree with you, and the bolded part came through.

 

[Plural]

Selanne in 06-07.

Best Duck maybe?

 

[daver]

I agree with you, and the bolded part came through.

Adding Malkin to year 2009 and 2012 is not out of the question. Here are a few potential additions or deletions:

2017: Crosby
2016: Crosby
2015: Crosby
2014: Crosby
2013: Crosby
2012: Crosby/Malkin
2011: Ovechkin/Crosby
2010: Ovechkin/Crosby
2009: Ovechkin/Crosby/Malkin
2008: Ovechkin/Crosby
2007: Lidstrom/Crosby/Thornton
2006: Nicklas Lidstrom/Thornton/Jagr
2004: Peter Forsberg
2003: Peter Forsberg
2002: Jagr/Lemieux/Lidstrom/Forsberg???
2001: Jaromir Jagr
2000: Jaromir Jagr
1999: Jaromir Jagr
1998: Jaromir Jagr
1997: Lemieux/Jagr/Lindros
1996: Mario Lemieux
1995: Mario Lemieux/Lindros
1994: Mario Lemieux

1963/64: Hull/Howe

 

[Zegras Zebra]

We often discuss the greatest player of all time, and attempt to rank them in multiple lists and treads. However, I've never seen a thread dedicated to who the best player at a given time was. It was clear that Wayne Gretzky was the best player for most of the 1980's and then at some point Mario Lemieux became the best player in the world. You can make the argument that we are in the middle of a transition period at this moment with Crosby and McDavid.

So I want to know your list of who was the best player in the world at a time and what moment they were passed by another player. Feel free to go as far back and as specific in terms of date as you wish (year, month, day). The player in question could have played in any league in the world so if you feel at some point a WHA player, or Soviet league player was the best at a given time there is no need to restrict the list to NHL players.

Times that I feel are particularly interesting include the period between Lemieux's first retirement and Crosby's period of dominance, the 1960's, and anything pre-Original Six.

 

[Troubadour]

early to late eighties: Gretzky

late eighties to early nineties: Lemieux

mid-nineties: NA

late nineties: Hasek

the back end of the nineties and 2000: Jagr

early 00s: NA

2003/2004: Forsberg

mid 00s: NA

2007: Crosby

Late 00s: Ovechkin

early 10s: Crosby/Malkin

mid 10s till now: NA

 

[Midnight Judges]

There is a lot of fantasy regarding Crosby in this thread. Crosby was not on Ovechkin's level from 2007-2010. Ovechkin alone was the best player in the world.

Crosby played half and quarter seasons for two years after that while Malkin won an MVP. Anointing Crosby best player based on a half and quarter season is just plain dumb. That would never happen in any other sport, and it's only happening here because Crosby is from Canada. If he were Russian, no chance this would happen.

Ovechkin won the Hart in 12-13. That alone ought to deserve a slash seeing as how Ovechkin was only 2 years removed from 3 years of utter dominance, but whatever.

Crosby really was the best player in the NHL in 2013-14. That is the only time you could say that in the past 10 seasons, and he hasn't cracked 90 points since.

These past two seasons McDavid has outscored Crosby by 17 points (Sid has 7 more goals though). Then again Sid has a lot more help obviously - contrary to hf mythology, Crosby gets plenty of ice time with Malkin, Kessel, and Letang, each of whom is all over Crosby's scoring logs. So how on earth is Crosby considered better than McDavid when McDavid nearly swept the awards last year and he is clearly better than Crosby this year?

If you want to argue over who was "considered" the best, fine. There are some wild imaginations in the hockey world, many of whom are driven by nativism, homerism, and unbound by rational thought. I am more interested in who actually was the best, and I think most people should at least try to be. I have no compunctions about proving there is a massive pro-Crosby bias in the hockey media.

Sustaining that BS narrative is going to be difficult when people review Crosby's career independently.

 

[MadLuke]

So how on earth is Crosby considered better than McDavid when McDavid nearly swept the awards last year and he is clearly better than Crosby this year

Probably because of the 2 cup win + top 5 forward regular season during that time frame + (a bit of the world Cup MVP) during that time frame.

 

[Neutrinos]

Thornton in 2006
Art Ross, Hart trophy

 

[daver]

It would be an interesting off-season project to come up with a majority-approved list especially if only one player could be named in any given year.

 

[Troubadour]

Thornton in 2006
Art Ross, Hart trophy

Alright, but was he the best player, period? Plenty of guys had great weeks / months / years, but to be the best player in the world based on a single year, you have to leave the competition in the dust.

 

[daver]

Anyone think Kane should have been co-best with Crosby or even on his own after leading the playoffs in scoring in 2015?

What about Marty Brodeur earning the title in the 02/03 season after finishing 3rd in Hart voting?

 

[DitchMarner]

As far as I'm concerned, it's McDavid alone in 2018 unless Crosby has a strong playoffs.

Edit: Actually, Kucherov has a claim as well depending on how his playoffs turn out.

 

[SidGenoMario]

Sustaining that BS narrative is going to be difficult when people review Crosby's career independently.

Even if someone were to be as biased against Crosby as you possibly can be and think that a partial injury shortened season is worthless and playoff performance and international tournaments are worthless, the history will still show that Crosby finished top 3 in scoring in 8 consecutive healthy seasons, with 4 Conn Smythe-worthy runs. No one else in his era can say that. I think history will be very kind to Crosby.