Best player in the world by year: 1998

[bert]

Jagr is somehow incredibly underrated.

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

Love Jags, but gimmi the best goalie ever - Hasek

 

[Toby91ca]

But you see... Ovechkin didn't get hurt and miss games. That means that run doesn't count as it gets tied to the rest of the season and averaged down.

But he did get hurt and miss games.....in those 50 games or so, he was hurt in between, which is why he was never really ahead in overall scoring. Not that I really care though as that is not my argument....I simply didn't remember, now I know why as it wouldn't have been as clearly obvious to me when tracking scoring leaders throughout each year.....he wasn't out front and that's because he had missed games. The Crosby example was more obvious because in January he had a 10 point lead, so was looking to win the scoring title running away ~20pts.

Also, I wasn't trying to compare the two either, I was honestly interested in similar stretches as I wasn't aware....I don't disagree with your commentary though.....Crosby got hurt halfway through that year, so you can't simply assume the missing games get filled in at the same level. My point was more about him having been clearly on top before, had an ankle injury that took time to work himself back and looked like he was separating himself from the pack again such that this wasn't simply a quick hot streak....not to suggest same level of scoring would persist, but enough for me to think he was the best in the world that year, meaning, he doesn't go from the best player on January X to not the best on January X + 1, but I do agree getting hurt does change things and when you get to the end of that season, I guess the picture might be different and at the time, I guess his career was in question.......I guess I'm coming around to the thought that it's beyond just MVP, if you are injury prone, has an impact on whether you are the best or not as you can't be counted on to play all the games...that's part of the player's abilities.

I've tended to look at it a little different where games lost hurts you a lot in Hart (MVP) voting, but not as much in Pearson (most outstanding player).

EDIT: went back and checked the 2009-10 year, I guess he was leading for a period of time around the 51 game mark.....but I didn't remember it well because I believe it was short lived, he was hurt earlier in the year so didn't have a big lead on guys as they played more games than him.....he continued to play well and took the lead, but don't think it lasted too long......anyway, as noted, it's irrelevant to the discussion anyway.

 

[daver]

Jagr is somehow incredibly underrated.

That's a heck of an argument you have laid out there.

 

[Toby91ca]

How is it even possible to compare a goalie to a skater anyway? Anyone else have that problem? This is partly why I don't even think of goalies when I think the the top 10 greatest players of all time list for example....the position is just so, so different.

 

[norrisnick]

How is it even possible to compare a goalie to a skater anyway? Anyone else have that problem? This is partly why I don't even think of goalies when I think the the top 10 greatest players of all time list for example....the position is just so, so different.

I don't remember where I saw it first, but that's why I make lists in sets of 6. 3 forwards, 2D, 1G. Keeps things balanced and you don't get a positional overload.

 

[bert]

That's a heck of an argument you have laid out there.

Clever response Daver.

You dont really need one if you have been a fan of the game long enough. He is second all time in points and missed 4 full seasons. He won multiple art ross's and should have more hart trophies. He had 3 lester B pearsons which area really the ones that matter most. Only 3 players won the scoring race for 21 years straight and he was one of them. He has over 2000 points when you include playoffs. So yeah he is underrated. His hardward suggests he is in the conversation for top 5 players ever and no one even brings him up in the conversation.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

That’s not what is being argued here, so try to stay focused when I’ll give a comparable example any way.

During his last 47 games of the 2008-2009 season and the first 52 games of the 2009-2010 season, Ovechkin had 154 points in 99 out of a possible 100 games. That is better and a more continuous stretch than 159 points in 99 out of a possible 212 games spread out over parts of 3 seasons.

Next.

Because you say so? It doesn't look as impressive to me, and then you throw in league scoring levels and linemates.

 

[Midnight Judges]

I'm not sure if you've ever come back from an injury and not played a sport for awhile, but insinuating that Crosby gained some advantage from being "rested" is ridiculous. And breaking his production down into increasingly smaller chunks to minimize his production is intellectually dishonest. He scored 159 points in 99 games, find me a stretch like that in OV's career.

The highest 99 game stretch I can find for Ovechkin is

The last 48 games of the 2008-09 season
36 goals 31 assists 67 points

The first 51 games of the 2009-10 season
42 goals 44 assists 86 points

For a 99 game total of
78 goals 75 assists 153 points

Or an 82 game pace of
65 goals 62 assists 127 points

That’s not what is being argued here, so try to stay focused when I’ll give a comparable example any way.

During his last 47 games of the 2008-2009 season and the first 52 games of the 2009-2010 season, Ovechkin had 154 points in 99 out of a possible 100 games. That is better and a more continuous stretch than 159 points in 99 out of a possible 212 games spread out over parts of 3 seasons.

Next.

Just to add to this, Ovechkin had 78 goals in that 99 game stretch. Crosby had 55 in his.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Clever response Daver.

You dont really need one if you have been a fan of the game long enough. He is second all time in points and missed 4 full seasons. He won multiple art ross's and should have more hart trophies. He had 3 lester B pearsons which area really the ones that matter most. Only 3 players won the scoring race for 21 years straight and he was one of them. He has over 2000 points when you include playoffs. So yeah he is underrated. His hardward suggests he is in the conversation for top 5 players ever and no one even brings him up in the conversation.

The only Hart I think he unjustly lost was 2006.

1995 - tied Lindros in points. Lindros had a massive physical advantage, minor defensive advantage, and higher PPG. Hard to argue Jagr
1996- Lemieux had 12 more points in 12 less games.
1997- hurt
1998- fairly weak Art Ross. Hasek in beast mode
1999- justly wins
2000- misses 20 games. If he's healthy he wins. Wins Pearson
2001 - disinterested before Lemieux returned. Sakic 3 less points with massive defensive gap
2002-2004 - disinterested
2006 - I think he should have won. He won the Pearson

 

[Video Nasty]

Because you say so? It doesn't look as impressive to me, and then you throw in league scoring levels and linemates.

You asked for a stretch like it. I gave it to you.

Next.

 

[Despote]

Crosby was still definitely the best player in the game by 2017. I say that as a McDavid fan, but cm'on. He looked overwhelmed by playoff intensity and didn't look like himself in his first taste of postseason hockey while Crosby was the MVP of the last two playoffs and World Cup. I actually feel like over Crosby's career the summer of 2017 may have been the least controversial time when Crosby was the best player in the world, at least from my perspective.

 

[cole von cole]

For 97-98, it's gotta be Dom

 

[nergish]

Teleport back to 1998, and just about everyone that follows hockey would say it's Eric Lindros.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

You asked for a stretch like it. I gave it to you.

Next.

OV's was worse, it was impressive, but not as good as Crosby's. Plus you can find a better stretch from Crosby if you look for it.

Next.

 

[Video Nasty]

OV's was worse, it was impressive, but not as good as Crosby's. Plus you can find a better stretch from Crosby if you look for it.

Next.

And McDavid trounces Crosby.

Next.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The crown was Lindros' for the taking but his injuries were mounting up by that time.

Agreed. Unfortunately though, those injuries count him out here.

Hasek is the right answer.

 

[bert]

Teleport back to 1998, and just about everyone that follows hockey would say it's Eric Lindros.

Not a chance.

 

[daver]

Clever response Daver.

You dont really need one if you have been a fan of the game long enough. He is second all time in points and missed 4 full seasons. He won multiple art ross's and should have more hart trophies. He had 3 lester B pearsons which area really the ones that matter most. Only 3 players won the scoring race for 21 years straight and he was one of them. He has over 2000 points when you include playoffs. So yeah he is underrated. His hardward suggests he is in the conversation for top 5 players ever and no one even brings him up in the conversation.

The OP is talking about 1997/98, What did Jagr do in 97/98 that was so special? Hasek was in the 2nd year of his peak, that on a relative basis, was dominating his competition like the Big 4 did to theirs. No other goalie came close to that level of domination historically.

Jagr was the best offensive forward (argubly only because Lindros had his first real down season) but his Art Ross win was solid but not dominating.

 

[bert]

The OP is talking about 1997/98, What did Jagr do in 97/98 that was so special? Hasek was in the 2nd year of his peak, that on a relative basis, was dominating his competition like the Big 4 did to theirs. No other goalie came close to that level of domination historically.

Jagr was the best offensive forward (argubly only because Lindros had his first real down season) but his Art Ross win was solid but not dominating.

My comment was Jagr is underrated. You quoted it.... did you not read the post you quoted? At that point the conversation had shifted. I didn't say Jagr was underrated in 1997-1998. Your post literally added absolutely nothing to the conversation and didn't make any sense. Outside of a desperate attempt to help you feel validated by insulting someone else.

Jagr did a whole lot with alot less around him. Lindros was on a stacked team. Arguably only?... he had 30+ more points in an era no one was scoring in. If Jagr was the best he was the best. Secondly when you are looking at their entire careers who's the outlier?.... Maybe the years lindros out produced jagr were the outliers. Those are the ones that are few and far between.

 

[bert]

The only Hart I think he unjustly lost was 2006.

1995 - tied Lindros in points. Lindros had a massive physical advantage, minor defensive advantage, and higher PPG. Hard to argue Jagr
1996- Lemieux had 12 more points in 12 less games.
1997- hurt
1998- fairly weak Art Ross. Hasek in beast mode
1999- justly wins
2000- misses 20 games. If he's healthy he wins. Wins Pearson
2001 - disinterested before Lemieux returned. Sakic 3 less points with massive defensive gap
2002-2004 - disinterested
2006 - I think he should have won. He won the Pearson

Well the NHL players disagree with you that played against him. I'd imagine they have a little bit better handle on it than you do.

 

[daver]

Jagr is somehow incredibly underrated.

My comment was Jagr is underrated. You quoted it.... did you not read the post you quoted? At that point the conversation had shifted. I didn't say Jagr was underrated in 1997-1998. Your post literally added absolutely nothing to the conversation and didn't make any sense. Outside of a desperate attempt to help you feel validated by insulting someone else.

Perhaps you should add in some context to your quotes then. How about quoting the poster you think was "incredibly" underrating Jagr instead of a drive-by post that adds, to use your words, "absolutely nothing to the conversation".

 

[daver]

Jagr did a whole lot with alot less around him. Lindros was on a stacked team. Arguably only?... he had 30+ more points in an era no one was scoring in. If Jagr was the best he was the best. Secondly when you are looking at their entire careers who's the outlier?.... Maybe the years lindros out produced jagr were the outliers. Those are the ones that are few and far between.

No reason to think either player would do better or worse if they played on other teams. We certainly saw what Jagr did when a GOAT was on his team.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

If a player wins the Hart and Lindsay/Pearson, they are almost certainly the best player in the world in a given year.

A lot of the posters in these types of polls will give their guy a grace period but not the other players. Basically, it invites history revision.

Here's my list:

1998: Hasek (won Hart and Pearson)
1999: Jagr (won Hart and Pearson)
2000: Jagr (2nd for Hart and Pearson)
2001: Sakic (Hart and Pearson)
2002: Up for debate
2003: Up for debate
2004: Martin St. Louis
2005: Lockout
2006: Up for debate
2007: Crosby (Hart and Pearson)
2008: Ovechkin (Hart and Pearson)
2009: Ovechkin (Hart and Pearson)
2010: Ovechkin (2nd for Hart and Pearson)
2011: Up for debate
2012: Malkin (Hart and Lindsay)
2013: Up for debate
2014: Crosby (Hart and Lindsay)
2015: Price (Hart and Lindsay)
2016: Kane (Hart and Lindsay)
2017: McDavid (Hart and Lindsay)

I like that list a lot. As your your “up for debate”, I’d put:

2002: Iginla (Basically swept the awards, but lost the Hart tie-breaker to Theodore)

2003: Forsberg (This one was the toughest one. It was between Forsberg and Lidstrom for me, but ultimately went with Forsberg due to Hart and Lindsey voting + his insane per-game numbers during that stretch)

2006: Jagr (Won Lindsey, 2nd in Hart, more goals and had less help than Thornton)

2011: Crosby (per game numbers are self explanatory, especially given that no one else really stood out when he was out)

2013: Crosby (He was just better than everyone else that season. Closer than 2011 bc of OV, but he clears the Hart, Ross and Lindsey if he doesn’t get that puck to the jaw)

EDIT: I would also argue Crosby over McDavid for 2017 due to the cup and Smythe. He also had more goals.

 

[Ben White]

I like that list a lot. As your your “up for debate”, I’d put:

2002: Iginla (Basically swept the awards, but lost the Hart tie-breaker to Theodore)

2003: Forsberg (This one was the toughest one. It was between Forsberg and Lidstrom for me, but ultimately went with Forsberg due to Hart and Lindsey voting + his insane per-game numbers during that stretch)

2006: Jagr (Won Lindsey, 2nd in Hart, more goals and had less help than Thornton)

2011: Crosby (per game numbers are self explanatory, especially given that no one else really stood out when he was out)

2013: Crosby (He was just better than everyone else that season. Closer than 2011 bc of OV, but he clears the Hart, Ross and Lindsey if he doesn’t get that puck to the jaw)

EDIT: I would also argue Crosby over McDavid for 2017 due to the cup and Smythe. He also had more goals.

2002 has to be Forsberg if the question is who the best player was. He was def better in the playoffs, coming back from a serious injury and a full year off, than Iginla was in the regular season. Proved enough that he was the best player.

2004 has to be Forsberg over St Louis. Proved in the games he played he was comfortably the better player.

Again, if asked “who’s the best player” this is the sort of reasoning you need to use, has nothing (or little) to do with who the most valuable player was. It’s a bit boring, agree, since only a handful players will typically share the “best player” slots every decade, but that’s just how it is.