FrankSidebottom
Registered User
- Mar 16, 2021
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Best player in the world: 2012
- Thread starter FrankSidebottom
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FrankSidebottom
Registered User
- Mar 16, 2021
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After the last poll I’m going to rank players over the whole period by this approach: 1st - 3 points, 2nd - 2 points, 3rd - 1 point. This is how it goes so far (w/o Mario):
Crosby: 1+3+2+1+2+3 = 12
Jagr: 2+3+3+1+2 = 11
Ovechkin: 3+3+3 = 9
Forsberg: 1+1+3+3 = 8
Hasek: 3+2 = 5
Lidstrom: 2+2 = 4
Crosby: 1+3+2+1+2+3 = 12
Jagr: 2+3+3+1+2 = 11
Ovechkin: 3+3+3 = 9
Forsberg: 1+1+3+3 = 8
Hasek: 3+2 = 5
Lidstrom: 2+2 = 4
Nathaniel Skywalker
DIG IN!!! RiGHT NOW!!!
- Oct 18, 2013
- 14,328
- 6,020
Crosby was the best player in the world. Malkin had the best season
If we're talking best player in an absolute sense - Crosby. He was better than Malkin the 2 seasons prior (2009-2010, 2010-2011) and the 2 seasons after (2012-2013, 2013-2014) - no logical reason to assume he wouldn't also be the better player this year. But he didn't play much, due to injury.
If we're talking best player with a minimum amount of games played - Malkin. This is one of the absolute best seasons of the cap era.
Expect 10 pages of arguments to follow between people who can't reconcile "best player' with "best player with a minium amount of games played".
If we're talking best player with a minimum amount of games played - Malkin. This is one of the absolute best seasons of the cap era.
Expect 10 pages of arguments to follow between people who can't reconcile "best player' with "best player with a minium amount of games played".
- Feb 10, 2010
- 14,656
- 11,777
It's obviously Malkin, but a bunch of Crosby fans voted for Crosby in 05-06, 07-08, 09, and '10 despite there being no case what-so-ever for Crosby in those years and so there is no reason to expect the rank Crosby homerism to subside during Crosby's 22 game season that followed a half season.
^^^This is a measurement of Crosby homerism on the forum, nothing more.
There is no case for Sid in any of those years except 2007.
^^^This is a measurement of Crosby homerism on the forum, nothing more.
There is no case for Sid in any of those years except 2007.
- Feb 10, 2010
- 14,656
- 11,777
Nobody is assuming anything. Evgeny Malkin was flat out the better player in 2012. Malkin had a better season in 2012 than any season Crosby has ever had.
There is no speculation needed. It's in the past.
Phil Kessels Hot Dog
Nice guy, tries hard, loves the game.
12,000+ posts devoted to bashing a single player and cries about bias on the forum. It's laughable.
- Feb 10, 2010
- 14,656
- 11,777
Fill in the blank:
In 2012, Evgeny Malkin won the Hart overwhelmingly, won the Pearson, and put up a season that was significantly better than any season Sidney Crosby has ever had. But Crosby was better than Malkin in 2012 because ________________.
norrisnick
The best...
- Apr 14, 2005
- 31,983
- 17,477
Malkin was clearly better in '09 and '12 so there is nothing even remotely resembling logic in this assumption.
If you're picking the best player in a given season, stop looking at what's going on in surrounding seasons. It's completely irrelevant.
Video Nasty
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2017
- 5,981
- 10,551
Malkin.
Always enjoy the forced arguments and hoops one has to jump through while ignoring the brilliance of others to prop Crosby up though.
Always enjoy the forced arguments and hoops one has to jump through while ignoring the brilliance of others to prop Crosby up though.
McPoyle
Start breaking bricks wet nips
I think that a first place finish should be worth comparatively more than a 2nd place finish than that.
FrankSidebottom
Registered User
- Mar 16, 2021
- 635
- 742
jigglysquishy
Registered User
A 5 3 1 system is the golden standard unless you want to do the math of actual vote shares.
Anyways, I voted for Malkin. Watched every Crosby game this year and ya he put up points, but his actual level of play was a clear step down from 2010-11. And eventually 2012-13 and 2013-14 too.
Malkin was a beast. Highest Vs5 score anyone put up between Jagr 99 and McDavid 2021. 64 points in his last 41 if you want to compare to Crosby's 41 game sample the year prior.
Anyways, I voted for Malkin. Watched every Crosby game this year and ya he put up points, but his actual level of play was a clear step down from 2010-11. And eventually 2012-13 and 2013-14 too.
Malkin was a beast. Highest Vs5 score anyone put up between Jagr 99 and McDavid 2021. 64 points in his last 41 if you want to compare to Crosby's 41 game sample the year prior.
FrankSidebottom
Registered User
- Mar 16, 2021
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Caser
Moderator
- May 21, 2013
- 14,577
- 14,003
I'd say Malkin's career peak that was there in 2012 might be higher than peaks of both Crosby and Ovechkin.
Btw, since no one mentioned that yet, that season he also pretty much single-handedly took Team Russia to World Championship's gold.
Btw, since no one mentioned that yet, that season he also pretty much single-handedly took Team Russia to World Championship's gold.
You have to go with Malkin here he had an unbelievable season. I don't understand how you can give it to Crosby. Did he put up great numbers in his limited time? Sure but his goal scoring was not at the level it was pre concussion and his PPG was definitely going to drop down closer to where Malkin's ended up. If two guys are close in PPG you go with the guy who scored 50 goals.
I do I find it pretty interesting that if not for injuries/suspensions we would have seen the 3 best players of their generation have their best seasons all happen consecutively. Ovechkin 09/10---->Crosby 10/11---->Malkin 11/12
I do I find it pretty interesting that if not for injuries/suspensions we would have seen the 3 best players of their generation have their best seasons all happen consecutively. Ovechkin 09/10---->Crosby 10/11---->Malkin 11/12
KoozNetsOff 92
Hala Madrid
- Apr 6, 2016
- 8,567
- 8,238
Weird how playoffs were such a big deal in 08-10 to justify Crosby/Malkin votes because people couldn't handle OV finishing 1st, but 2011 and 2012 there's been no mention of playoffs. I voted Malkin because I'm not a hypocrite, but man it's hilarious to see certain people moving the goal posts for certain players. Different year different criteria.
Pretty much this but with the season Malkin had it's pretty much 1a and 1b for the poll question.
I'm just going to ignore the people who are trying to answer best season only as that's not the question here.
But who was so close that playoff performance would put them over?
I understand the logic of someone suggesting Crosby was the best player.....same thing discussed several times before....the best player is the best player, regardless of whether they play enough games or not....but it's tough to go to Crosby here......certainly looked like the best player in the world again when he came back, but simply not enough demonstration of it and since Malkin had such a great year.....he seems to be the easy choice.
The only problem I have with these polls though is......aren't we just re-doing to the end of year awards? I know Hart doesn't always go to best player, but mostly does and Pearson/Lindsay is supposed to be best player, or maybe not depending on how you define it. Those awards would already factor in games played, so are we just re-doing them?
Caser
Moderator
- May 21, 2013
- 14,577
- 14,003
Just by that logic Mario Lemieux was the best player in 1998, 1999 and 2000 - he just didn't play much, but we could certainly assume he would be the better player in those years.
Yeah, he was better the 2 prior seasons and the 2 seasons after. But this isn't about those seasons, this is about 2011-2012. Might come as a surprise, but reading the title helps.
Also, Crosby was better healthy, but he wasn't healthy. He didn't arbitrarily miss games.
GreatGonzo
Registered User
funny how people are already justifying Crosby for 2012 based on what he did the previous seasons and not what he clearly did that season. It’s Malkin by far. The man was at his peak and it showed.
What sort of logic is that? We can’t just assume, basing your entire argument on that is just flawed and ridiculous. Also, Malkin outplayed Crosby in 2009 in both regular season and playoffs, not sure why your giving Crosby the credit for being “better” there.
There needs to be some sense of reason in these projections though. Missing several seasons in a row is not the same as playing 1/4 of a season and playing in the years before and after. Most people still had Lemieux as the best player “when healthy” in a season like 90-91 when he only played 26 games. Lemieux was also not clearly better than Jagr or Hasek in 96-97, so it’s not as easy to project him being better in the subsequent years without any games played. I do think Malkin was good enough this year that I don’t think a reasonable projection of Crosby is necessarily better, and Id argue he was generally better in the games they both played in as well, but picking Crosby is a lot more justifiable than Lemieux in 98 and 99.
filinski77
Registered User
- Feb 12, 2017
- 2,741
- 4,612
Coming in a bit late with some of the earlier polls, how tf did Crosby finish 3rd in 2006? Thornton/Jagr/Ovi were all very much a clear step above. And I'm not really convinced that Crosby was better than Kovalchuk either (massive increase in goalscoring dominance).
Anyways. Good stuff compiling this!
