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Best-on-best. Playoff game. Who would you bet your money on in a game between Sweden and Finland? Jalonen vs Hallam.

Finland vs Sweden?

  • Finland

    Votes: 25 43.9%

  • Sweden

    Votes: 32 56.1%
  • Total voters
    57
My mind says Sweden and my heart says Finland. That's why I chose Finland. ;) But I'm not happy with some Finnish NHL players at the moment.
 
Finland has better goalies, better forwards, better coach, more winning menality and better d-core (when it comes to defending).

Only thing Sweden is better at is having offensive skilled Ds.

The question is thought if Jalonen coaching will work with all the superstars from NHL?
 
Talent wise, Sweden easily. Theyre deep at every position, defense and goaltending is good.

But Finland has been on some shit internationally lol. Say what you will about the annual WCs and the tier of competition, but the fact that Jalonen pulled 2 golds and 1 silver with nothing but mostly European league rosters is nothing short of impressive. Imagine the tactics he will have with Finlands BEST NHL players all available to him. Scary for any team really, even for the Canada or US fully loaded teams.

It's a 50/50 classic match, but at this point in time I'd have to go Finland.
 
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When Sweden and Finland plays, rosters do not matter really. It can go either way. Finland has defeated Sweden while rostering European pro players vs NHL stars at the World's. Hyped WJC rosters for one nation have been defeated by mediocre ones from the neighbouring country. It's a special rivalry and while the strongest team on paper will usually be the favorite, we all know it can go either way.
 
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Eye of Ra said:
Finland has better goalies, better forwards, better coach, more winning menality and better d-core (when it comes to defending).

Only thing Sweden is better at is having offensive skilled Ds.

The question is thought if Jalonen coaching will work with all the superstars from NHL?
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Well, I don't know if that's still true? Finland's attacking players aren't in the best shape in the NHL these days. In depth, Sweden is still clearly better. I'm not so sure!
 
Off the top of my head, I prefer Finland’s forwards, Barkov and Rantanen are better than any Swedish forwards and Aho and Hintz round out a great core with support from Teräväinen, Granlund, Kakko, Luostarinen, Maccelli etc. Finland’s defense is nowhere near as good as Sweden’s, though. Heiskanen is the only really good one, after that the best we have are some decent top-4 options.
 
Finland's defense is brutal. Only Heiskanen is deserving of a best-on-best spot. Finland used to have some potential talent on the blue line but everyone except Heiskanen busted. Now the second-best defenseman is, Lindell? Absolutely dreadful. Sweden gets Hedman on their second pairing.

As for forwards, Finland might have a slightly superior top end with Rantanen, Barkov, Aho, Hintz and such but Sweden's depth is far superior. Their best players are also comparable to Finland's even if Finland has a tiny edge. Pettersson, Zibanejad, Nylander, Bratt, Forsberg etc. aren't that far behind this group of Finns.

For goalies, Ullmark will very likely win Vezina and might be the best goalie in NHL. Gustavsson has also had a great season. Saros is strong, but Finland doesn't have an amazing #2. Lankinen's done well this season, I guess.


Overall, Sweden defense >>>>>>>>>> Finland's, Sweden's forwards are slightly better than Finland's, and Sweden has the better pair of goalies.



I think the main reason Finnish prospects haven't been translating well to NHL is Liiga's current trend of trash "meidän peli" kahvara hockey garbage which neuters individual skill. And it doesn't help having hardass coaches like Lämsä for junior national teams. Even if Swedish teams have worse teamwork, at least their players aren't afraid of trying individually skilled moves and experimenting with things - regardless of results, Swedish players clearly are far more skilled. In Finland, you must not deviate from "the plan", which is standing in trap without any forechecking and taking 2 minutes behind your net to start every rush, all of which is poor for individual skills development.

There was a brief era where there was more freedom, and that's the age group all of Finland's best players are from, around 2013-2017. I'm not sure why they walked back on it but it'll be another decade of garbage ahead, it seems.
 
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OskarOskarius said:
Finland sucks.
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indeed, champagne.
1673286319495.png
 
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I feel like SWE-FIN games are always coin flip type of games. I'm never surprised with Sweden winning and I'm never surprised with Finland winning. I guess the poll being this close also would suggest this.
 
If they played a best of seven series Sweden would win but international tournaments are always single random games which could go either way. That's why international tournaments are overrated as a measuring stick.
 
I picked Finland because it boils down to "one" game and not a best of 7, or even 3. I just wish we could all finally see a true best on best hockey tournie again. This is getting ridiculous for us hockey fans who are arguably the most loyal out of all sports. Good news for Finland is that as each year goes by, Hedman gets older LOL.
 
Finland winning against Sweden in a playoff game is actually a rather rare occurrence nowadays(at senior level). Finland won 2019 WCH quarterfinal which was rather impressive. That was not best-of-best though. The last of best-of-best win was in Nagano 1998 quarterfinal. After that the swedes have beaten us every time. If there was a best-of-best tournament and we meet there, I would bet my money on Sweden although I of course hope for Finland victory.

In World Juniors its pretty even. Some great wins for us in a past couple of years but also a big disappointment lately. And that latest matchup (and the way it was done) sadly reminds me of old times. Hopefully that was just a flaw. :D
 
ijuka said:
Finland's defense is brutal. Only Heiskanen is deserving of a best-on-best spot. Finland used to have some potential talent on the blue line but everyone except Heiskanen busted. Now the second-best defenseman is, Lindell? Absolutely dreadful. Sweden gets Hedman on their second pairing.

As for forwards, Finland might have a slightly superior top end with Rantanen, Barkov, Aho, Hintz and such but Sweden's depth is far superior. Their best players are also comparable to Finland's even if Finland has a tiny edge. Pettersson, Zibanejad, Nylander, Bratt, Forsberg etc. aren't that far behind this group of Finns.

For goalies, Ullmark will very likely win Vezina and might be the best goalie in NHL. Gustavsson has also had a great season. Saros is strong, but Finland doesn't have an amazing #2. Lankinen's done well this season, I guess.


Overall, Sweden defense >>>>>>>>>> Finland's, Sweden's forwards are slightly better than Finland's, and Sweden has the better pair of goalies.



I think the main reason Finnish prospects haven't been translating well to NHL is Liiga's current trend of trash "meidän peli" kahvara hockey garbage which neuters individual skill. And it doesn't help having hardass coaches like Lämsä for junior national teams. Even if Swedish teams have worse teamwork, at least their players aren't afraid of trying individually skilled moves and experimenting with things - regardless of results, Swedish players clearly are far more skilled. In Finland, you must not deviate from "the plan", which is standing in trap without any forechecking and taking 2 minutes behind your net to start every rush, all of which is poor for individual skills development.

There was a brief era where there was more freedom, and that's the age group all of Finland's best players are from, around 2013-2017. I'm not sure why they walked back on it but it'll be another decade of garbage ahead, it seems.
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They play one goalie at a time. So Ullmark and Saros. Both are great.
Sedush D is one of the most reliable D in the world, but finland got a powerhouse up front.

It will be a great game. Not to impressed by pettersson lately. Zibanejad best forward equvivalent to Rantanen is playingstyle. Forsberg cab score somem Finland has the bwst player on ice with Barkov. Sweden got Ekholm, H Lindholm, Dahlin, E Karlsson, Hedman, A Larsson as defencemen wich is a good D core. A very close game. If Filip Forsberg and ZibNejad just capitalize on their chanses, sweden wins. If not, Finland wins.
 
ijuka said:
Finland's defense is brutal. Only Heiskanen is deserving of a best-on-best spot. Finland used to have some potential talent on the blue line but everyone except Heiskanen busted. Now the second-best defenseman is, Lindell? Absolutely dreadful. Sweden gets Hedman on their second pairing.

As for forwards, Finland might have a slightly superior top end with Rantanen, Barkov, Aho, Hintz and such but Sweden's depth is far superior. Their best players are also comparable to Finland's even if Finland has a tiny edge. Pettersson, Zibanejad, Nylander, Bratt, Forsberg etc. aren't that far behind this group of Finns.

For goalies, Ullmark will very likely win Vezina and might be the best goalie in NHL. Gustavsson has also had a great season. Saros is strong, but Finland doesn't have an amazing #2. Lankinen's done well this season, I guess.


Overall, Sweden defense >>>>>>>>>> Finland's, Sweden's forwards are slightly better than Finland's, and Sweden has the better pair of goalies.



I think the main reason Finnish prospects haven't been translating well to NHL is Liiga's current trend of trash "meidän peli" kahvara hockey garbage which neuters individual skill. And it doesn't help having hardass coaches like Lämsä for junior national teams. Even if Swedish teams have worse teamwork, at least their players aren't afraid of trying individually skilled moves and experimenting with things - regardless of results, Swedish players clearly are far more skilled. In Finland, you must not deviate from "the plan", which is standing in trap without any forechecking and taking 2 minutes behind your net to start every rush, all of which is poor for individual skills development.

There was a brief era where there was more freedom, and that's the age group all of Finland's best players are from, around 2013-2017. I'm not sure why they walked back on it but it'll be another decade of garbage ahead, it seems.
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Excellent post.

I think one reason why the world juniors is so overrated, is simply that it shouldn’t be taken as seriously as it is. The players are in development — kids really — who should be allowed some room for error and have confidence in their individual abilities. It’s a goddamn travesty if we’re already bombarding them with these huge expectations of winning for the pride of their countrymen and having them fear the shame of failure if they aren’t nailing down a repressive trap system to a T at that age.

They’ve got time to become robots later on, but I think there’s a point with giving young players some free range to try their skills out and fail and not be lambasted and broken down by it.

And as you alluded to, while Sweden tend to fail at the U20 level, they seem to develop skilled senior players who can play a system and compete against other men’s teams down the line, while also having had time to hone in their individual skills.

Someone like William Nylander, while wonderfully skilled, I thought he was ultimately a spoiled brat and a bad competitor at juniors, and even at the 2019 WHC when I remember him giving up a strong offensive shift with some fancy bullshit that gave Finland the chance to tie the game up on a counterattack. I thought to myself, if he did that on the Leafs, Babcock would bury him, but with Team Sweden we’re content that our skilled NHLers are happy to come and play for the national team, even if their arrogance will sometimes get the best of them against disciplined and gritty competition. I really admired Jalonen and Team Finland for digging deep down and coming together as a cohesive group to punish that kind of arrogance, and felt that in a way, we don’t need to see Nylander on the national team if he plays a WHC quarterfinals like a game of pick up hockey.

But on the other hand, I kind of accepted that playing for Team Sweden as opposed to playing for Team Finland attracted many of our best NHLers. Finland had a lot of players turning down WHC invites which I will deduce comes from Jalonen’s system seeming restrictive to them, and not very fun.

And a couple years later, on the Maple Leafs, Nylander has improved his compete level and become increasingly more professional as a player. He’s proven he shows up in the playoffs for example, being a bright spot for a team whose stars consistently gets ridiculed for folding when the going gets tough, and to a point where I’m confident I wouldn’t consider Nylander the same liability on Team Sweden anymore. He just needed to mature in his skills, and I’m glad they let him.
 
By the way, I voted Finland.

I’m not confident they will be able to fit their round star players into the square Jalonen hole as well and successfully as they’ve done with their Euro league players, but the idea of adding their top-6 — which I overall have slightly ahead of Sweden’s respective one — to a system that’s proven able to add up several times over the sum of its spare parts, is intimidating. While Sweden’s got the better d-core “ainec”, Jalonen’s got their no-names — relatively speaking — coming together like a medieval castle protecting the net. Consider the Nagano Czech Republic’s team defense versus Canada’s blueline which featured five HHoFers, Eric Desjardins and Adam Foote.

I agree that on paper or over a best of 3 or 7, Sweden’s increasingly the favorite, but Finland’s always been intimidating in one-offs, and at the moment they have probably their best generation ever.
 
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illone84 said:
I picked Finland because it boils down to "one" game and not a best of 7, or even 3. I just wish we could all finally see a true best on best hockey tournie again. This is getting ridiculous for us hockey fans who are arguably the most loyal out of all sports. Good news for Finland is that as each year goes by, Hedman gets older LOL.
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But Karlsson is aging like fine whine ;)
 
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