OT: Beer Thread

HannuJ

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Nov 20, 2011
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Perhaps because there is still a brewery here in Winnipeg that is producing Fort Garry product locally (Kenaston Avenue/Route 90). Meaning my dollars for that product may in part be going to help support people working there that live in the local economy. Is all of it brewed locally? Don't really know and I'd hardly be surprised that it is brewed in Edmonton or the GTA but I do know people working there and while it's owned ultimately by a multi-national there is still a local aspect. So that would be why I would support it over Molson. Molson, to the best of my knowledge doesn't have a brewery in Winnipeg any longer and hasn't for many years. Nor does Labatt and of course Carling O'Keefe, where I worked as a teenager (post 18 yo) has been gone a long time as well. So if you're defining local as Canadian, then yeah, no difference. Otherwise I still detect something of a difference. Same reason I buy Half Pints products.

I think we really do differ on how we view certain breweries. When I think of independents I suppose I'm thinking more smaller, local craft type situations. Sam Adams may have started out in that manner and as you point out is an independent but doesn't try to squeeze out the small guy? So they aren't concerned with market share? And while I don't recall a lot of Sam Adams marketing in this part of Canada and can't attest to the presence of bikinis or not, when I'm in the U.S. the Sam Adams advertising is pretty darn ubiquitous. But you don't equate that to the Bud/Coors Light ski/bikini advertising? I think that's just a subjective opinion on what you view as acceptable marketing. Sam Adams/Budweiser are both pushing aggressively for market share. To acquire more market share you are pulling sales away from someone else. That you're not using bikinis just means you're looking at a slightly different demographic, but it remains market share taken away from someone else. In conversations I had with guys at Surly they sure as hell want to take market share away from INBev. They also want to take it away from Fulton.

Your taste profiles really lean to independents and many of their products. I'm not dramatically different. At the same time though I don't really look down on people that are happy having a Bud Lite or guys that swear by Bud. It's what they like. I always have a cold, yellow beer around, either for myself or for guests. You keep saying you don't look down on that but man, your posts tell a whole different story.

Not sure if you've been reading my posts or glossing over. there are a lot, so i understand if it's the latter. :)

i just told you how I was at a Goose Island event last week. I will buy Sophie, since it's an excellent beer to pair with chicken. Bourbon County Stout: give me (uninfected) bottles to purchase and i will. I still buy Pineapple Sculpin even Ballast Point sold out. and, from what i know, InBev has, so far, been very good to Goose Island. it's resulted in more product, including barrel-aged beer, being brewed, and it being available in Canada.

My taste profile leans towards one thing: taste. that's my primary concern. if McDonalds made an amazing product, i'd eat there more often. I don't blindly support independent stores or breweries, especially if their product is inferior. In Toronto, my beer friends know where I (audibly) stand on this point and I'm far from being a local brewery cheerleader. I spend more $$ on US independent beer than I do on Ontario beer because, aside from Bellwoods and the occasional beer from Great Lakes or Amsterdam, our local product is still bleh.

The term "craft beer" is kind of dead. no one really uses it except for marketing/advertising. what does craft mean? what does it mean to me, to you? craft usually means small and artisinal and well made. i can argue that most craft beer is not well made. Sam Adams and Founders and Stone are still craft (compared to InBev) but they're beheamoth companies. if their product reflects their size, i'll stop buying. usually with growth comes decreased QC.

Molson vs Fort Garry: you want to have this argument, then let's do it. :)
Molson has a sales team in Winnipeg. that's locally employed people. i'd guess that their team's size is the same, if not larger, than Fort Garry's team. so which is more "local"? it's your perception, and if seeing "Fort Garry" stamped on the size makes you think "this is local!", then cool. in the end, with both companies, money gets funneled to the people on top (or to their shareholders). on the flipside, using Bellwoods in Toronto as an example, i meet the owners and drink with them. and i am told they treat their employees really well. so Bellwoods gets my money whenever possible. Other local breweries, from what i hear, treat their employees poorly, have high staff turnover and pay poorly. so i avoid supporting them. one of them has a really dumb motto for their flagship beer that's horrible sexual innuendo. i'm not their target audience (and i don't like that IPA) so i've pretty much stopped supporting that brewery - and it's a 4 min drive from my house.

you cannot compare Half Pints to Fort Garry. FG is publicly traded and owned by a slightly larger corporation. Half Pints is owned (mostly) by Dave Rudge. a truly independent business that is truly community owned.

at no point have i said that i look down on posters and what they drink. it's your money, your palate, your gut. what i and others have attempted to do is present options that consensus says are better tasting options. if you're about to buy a burger from McDonalds and i said "hey, have you ever tried VJs?", would you call me a snob or thank me for the suggestion? same thing. how i see it is that some posters feel inferior to hearing this beer talk and, in turn, start to call people names and infer that we're something that we're not.

am i a beer snob? hell yeah, i am. i'm also a food and music snob. i don't waste time and money on stuff that's not great. so would i drink a coors lite? no. never had more than a sip of that metallic pisswater. i'd rather drink water than drink something that tasted like water and flaw. if you want to knock a 6er of that down, cool. if you state it's the best beer in the world, then i'd probably refute your statement.

so please, this thread's about appreciating beer and discussing beer. some posters are discussing beer that's not necessarily highly regarded or rated, and that's cool. there's an audience for that. others, such as myself, like to discuss beer that are considered to be more refined. just understand where we're coming from and why we like what we like and get excited about what we get excited about.

thanks
 

Daximus

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Well at least we can all agree that BC makes the best beer in Canada with Ontario coming in a distant second. :D
 

buggs

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Not sure if you've been reading my posts or glossing over. there are a lot, so i understand if it's the latter. :)

...

...
...

Molson vs Fort Garry: you want to have this argument, then let's do it. :)
Molson has a sales team in Winnipeg. that's locally employed people. i'd guess that their team's size is the same, if not larger, than Fort Garry's team. so which is more "local"? it's your perception, and if seeing "Fort Garry" stamped on the size makes you think "this is local!", then cool. in the end, with both companies, money gets funneled to the people on top (or to their shareholders). on the flipside, using Bellwoods in Toronto as an example, i meet the owners and drink with them. and i am told they treat their employees really well. so Bellwoods gets my money whenever possible. Other local breweries, from what i hear, treat their employees poorly, have high staff turnover and pay poorly. so i avoid supporting them. one of them has a really dumb motto for their flagship beer that's horrible sexual innuendo. i'm not their target audience (and i don't like that IPA) so i've pretty much stopped supporting that brewery - and it's a 4 min drive from my house.

you cannot compare Half Pints to Fort Garry. FG is publicly traded and owned by a slightly larger corporation. Half Pints is owned (mostly) by Dave Rudge. a truly independent business that is truly community owned.

at no point have i said that i look down on posters and what they drink. it's your money, your palate, your gut. what i and others have attempted to do is present options that consensus says are better tasting options. if you're about to buy a burger from McDonalds and i said "hey, have you ever tried VJs?", would you call me a snob or thank me for the suggestion? same thing. how i see it is that some posters feel inferior to hearing this beer talk and, in turn, start to call people names and infer that we're something that we're not.
...

thanks

snipped a bunch out, denoted by ... simply because not going there due to lack of disagreement.

I think you may be suffering from the same thing I'm suffering, at least to a degree. I think in part you're glossing over what I said, for different reasons as my volume isn't as prodigious as yours. Were it a scotch whisky thread, I'd be voluminous too.

Having spent a significant amount of time in the restaurant industry and still being connected to it I'd disagree with your guess that Molson has as many people as Fort Garry. Certainly they have a fair few staff here but they are mostly sales and many are highly transient in terms of how long they are with Molson. Does the sales staff equate to half of what is employed at Fort Garry? Perhaps, but we're into finer details here. A guy that works on the brewing/quality floor versus a Commerce student that has a transient job as a sales guy isn't remotely the same to me. Indeed there are long term, non-transient staff such as Norva Riddell now with TNSE, but they are a rarity and comprise a small portion of the operation. The Kenaston facility for Fort Garry is still actively brewing on site. Perhaps not the Dark/Pale/Light that is available in wider markets, but other products are still produced on site. That's how I define local.

You misinterpreted why I used Half Pints in comparison. Much like Fort Garry, the number of staff is about the same. Which ironically would then be a similar comparison to Molson's if I'm using your numbers. ;) What it does is employ local people producing quality beer, that's why I buy it. That is the same as Fort Garry, if only in part in the case of Fort Garry with some of their products. IIRC you made comments about Fort Garry Dark being not very good relative to some similar products from other breweries. In terms of bottled product, I agree, the stuff on tap locally is better. I'm uncertain if that's because it's produced locally or subsequently fresher or simply because it's from a keg and hasn't been sitting in a bottle for a long time. Ultimately the point is getting a good product value for your hard earned dollar. :)

[mod]

Alas, I fear I'm distracting from an otherwise wondrous thread as tacogeoff has indicated. So in closing I'll continue to read your posts and ensure that I don't gloss over them. I do look forward to reading your future posts as your knowledge of beer is exceptional.
 
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WaveRaven

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Apr 30, 2011
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Tree Brewing Products are almost always available in Winnipeg.

The best location is the LC on Ellice downtown because of the restaurants. An LC employee tipped me on going there when asking them to check stock around town. I work downtown anyhow. Today there were at least 24 thirsty beavers and cut throat ale. I have had to hunt for Thirsty Beaver quite a few times but usually it's around.

The growler bars (Dakota) had Tree Brewing Helles for the last few weeks that was good don't know about now.

My avatar is the old Thirsty Beaver logo.

I'll have to try some mentioned.
 
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Heldig

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Apr 12, 2002
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I identify as a bit of a beer snob i suppose. Funny, I actually live in a town that makes a very popular regional beer...that I wont drink. As a brewery town it was only a few years ago that you could not buy anything but the local beer in local restaurants/pubs (even now it is rare to find anything but InBev products).

Thankfully, I live in BC (and near the Washington border) and their are TONS of artisan breweries around. And beer festivals :handclap: There are just so many beers to try and so many varieties/flavours/nuances. And I really enjoy beer and food pairing.

Just feel I would be missing out by only drinking the same stuff all the time. I do drink some mass produced beers. Fond of Sapporo or Suntory Hops when eating Japanese food. Drink Sleemans when with the in-laws.

In closing, here is a great resource for BC beer:
http://www.bcbeer.ca/brands.aspx

And Washington beer:
http://washingtonbeer.com/breweries/

Cheers and here's to beers
 

JordanRC

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Jan 4, 2012
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PegBeer co announced their beer lineup recently... Which includes a Berliner Weisse. Finally be brewing soon, I guess. Be nice to have a local Berliner to get regularly, assuming it's half decent.
 

tacogeoff

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Jul 18, 2011
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Speaking of BC. I really enjoyed Fernie Brewing Co.'s Black Mammoth Winter Ale. A friend brought It back as she lives there year round and it was quite soothing to say the least and only winter seasonal. I had tried their Griz Pale Ale when I was there skiing the winter before last and was not impressed but did not mind their Big Caboose Red Ale.

My first introduction to a high IBU/hoppy beer was four winters ago while skiing in Montana at Big Sky. I was a run of the mill, get me a coors light person in the beer department and was more into good scotch and vodka. I stumbled across a six pack of cans from a local micro brew at the store. I thought it would be cool to bring back something that was made in Montana. the can looked killer and it was called Hopzone whatever that meant. I thought screw it, I will bring it home as a souvenir. Did not think anything of it as beer is beer..right? Wrong.....I found out later that night it was not regular beer!!! after we got a little carried away a little Après-ski, we got back to the cabin and decided to slam one of these beers back...fully.....it was an experience I tell you...from a regular beer joe perspective...a rush of a bitter beer with a big bite....my evening was completely thrown off for a few minutes lol.

Never will forget my first hoppy IPA. I am glad I gave it a retry the next day in a more conservative taste test.

http://bozemanbrewing.com/our-beer/beer-details/?beer_id=237
 

Ducky10

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I'd certainly argue the assertion most Ontario independents are "bleh".

That's absurd.
 

Ducky10

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Phillips Brewery knows Hops, a number of solid beers coming out of there.
 

HannuJ

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I'd certainly argue the assertion most Ontario independents are "bleh".

That's absurd.

alright. counter that assertion and name the Ontario breweries that are above average. I'm game. :)

and, as an aside, you've read the Ontario Craft Beer Guide that came out this year?
 
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nobody important

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PegBeer co announced their beer lineup recently... Which includes a Berliner Weisse. Finally be brewing soon, I guess. Be nice to have a local Berliner to get regularly, assuming it's half decent.

I suppose I should get down there to critique their brews. Maybe go at lunch, when they at least have some decent sounding sandwiches on the menu. Hope they have a sampler tray, and will serve their BW without that nauseating sounding rhubarb syrup. Really never understood why people need sour beers sweetened.

At the moment, enjoying an Oast House Biere de Garde from Ontario, via the Moose Jaw LC. They were on sale, wish I had picked up more. A dangerously drinkable beer at 7%. Reddish-brown, on the sweet side, very fruity with some balancing tartness and spice. If I had to compare it with beers people around here might be familiar with, maybe falls between St Sylvestre Gavroche (which I wish the MLCC would bring back) and Unibroue Maudite.
 

Ducky10

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alright. counter that assertion and name the Ontario breweries that are above average. I'm game. :)

and, as an aside, you've read the Ontario Craft Beer Guide that came out this year?

Nope, haven't read it. I'll list a couple to humour you but I find the notion you'll discern whether I'm right or not pretty funny.

I certainly agree with the three you listed earlier but I also think Flying Monkeys, Better Bitters, Black Oak and the Indie Alehouse (brewpub), all make excellent product, as do many others.
 

Analyst365

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The term "craft beer" is kind of dead. no one really uses it except for marketing/advertising. what does craft mean? what does it mean to me, to you? craft usually means small and artisinal and well made. i can argue that most craft beer is not well made. Sam Adams and Founders and Stone are still craft (compared to InBev) but they're beheamoth companies. if their product reflects their size, i'll stop buying. usually with growth comes decreased QC.

I'm sorry, but you need to get out more if you're going to lecture. There is plenty of craft beer around, in Canada and in the US, and it certainly isn't Sam Adams.

Come to Vancouver Island for starters ...
 

Daximus

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I'm sorry, but you need to get out more if you're going to lecture. There is plenty of craft beer around, in Canada and in the US, and it certainly isn't Sam Adams.

Come to Vancouver Island for starters ...

There's microbreweries as far as the eye can see in BC. Actually once you hit the mountains in Crowsnest Pass the beer flows like the rivers all the way out to the Pacific.
 

HannuJ

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I suppose I should get down there to critique their brews. Maybe go at lunch, when they at least have some decent sounding sandwiches on the menu. Hope they have a sampler tray, and will serve their BW without that nauseating sounding rhubarb syrup. Really never understood why people need sour beers sweetened.

At the moment, enjoying an Oast House Biere de Garde from Ontario, via the Moose Jaw LC. They were on sale, wish I had picked up more. A dangerously drinkable beer at 7%. Reddish-brown, on the sweet side, very fruity with some balancing tartness and spice. If I had to compare it with beers people around here might be familiar with, maybe falls between St Sylvestre Gavroche (which I wish the MLCC would bring back) and Unibroue Maudite.

Oast's Biere de Garde is great, but i've found it has serious (over)carbonation issues.

and the reason why people do the syrup? tradition. always done that way. even a gueuze was served in a tumbler so you could crush a sugar cube in the bottom.
 

HannuJ

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I'm sorry, but you need to get out more if you're going to lecture. There is plenty of craft beer around, in Canada and in the US, and it certainly isn't Sam Adams.

Come to Vancouver Island for starters ...

lol.
"get out more". think i get out and travel way too much for beer. i was in Michigan for their craft beer festival and am going to Buffalo next week for an event. you want to meet up with me in Iceland and Belgium in November? :laugh:
there sure is plenty of craft beer around. the term "craft beer", though, has become pointless. a 1 barrel system versus Sam Adams' scale is all craft beer, so what does it really mean anymore.


Vancouver does have a lot of great beer. Four Winds and Driftwood are my favourite.

Nope, haven't read it. I'll list a couple to humour you but I find the notion you'll discern whether I'm right or not pretty funny.

I certainly agree with the three you listed earlier but I also think Flying Monkeys, Better Bitters, Black Oak and the Indie Alehouse (brewpub), all make excellent product, as do many others.

i had to google "Better Bitters". You mean Nickelbrook, i guess.

in ontario, our top 3?

Bellwoods
Great Lakes
Nickelbrook

Indie's quality is up and down. would still call them average...for now. think things will change in the next 6 months.
Flying Monkeys: honestly, still average. started on the scene years ago as gamechangers and then they did their band beer and have really fallen off. went to a tap takeover they did last year and most of the beer were undrinkable, sweet slop.
Not sure many around these parts consider Black Oak to be overly great. 10 Bitter Years was great years ago and it's declined quite a bit. the rest of their lineup's really just a bunch of standard styles. nothing that gets the heart pumping.

out of your list, Indie's the best, in my opinion.

Ontario breweries that i think one should look out for? Half Hours on Earth, Halo (in 6-12 months), Barncat, Burdock. in case you're wondering. :)

and no, i'm not discerning your opinion. some people forget that we're here to discuss. make a statement and back it up - which you did.
 
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HannuJ

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it seems like a fair number of posters are interpreting things the wrong way.

talking about beer is like talking about a top 10 favourite song list. you list your list, others comment, another list is made, more comments, etc.

There's really no need for people to get their backs up. there's no judge or jury. there are opinions and conversation.

"Beer X is amazing." tell us why. people will reply to that. you can reply to replies. it results in discussion.

but i suggest some people remove some emotion from their statements. we're talking about beer, not our wives and mothers.
 

nothingbutrum

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Fun fact.... A tallboy has 3.5 servings of alcohol per can, according to my internet research. Useful information for anyone looking to throw a few back and still show up to work somewhat sober the following day.

I wish I knew this last week (I walk to work, fwiw).

I'm partial to Sleeping Giant's Northern Logger, but I'll usually buy a variety of single crafts.
 
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buggs

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Fun fact.... A tallboy has 3.5 servings of alcohol per can, according to my internet research. Useful information for anyone looking to throw a few back and still show up to work somewhat sober the following day.

I wish I knew this last week (I walk to work, fwiw).

I'm partial to Sleeping Giant's Northern Logger, but I'll usually buy a variety of single crafts.


It certainly works very well as a complement to a nice glass of scotch.
 

imec

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Oast's Biere de Garde is great, but i've found it has serious (over)carbonation issues.

Learning a lot from this thread and finding it fascinating. Also finding it sometimes confusing. Wouldn't "(over) carbonation" make the beer "too fizzy"? Only I noticed when another poster used that term you didn't know what he meant. Can you expand on how over carbonation affects the beer? Thanks
 

Ducky10

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lol.

i had to google "Better Bitters". You mean Nickelbrook, i guess.

in ontario, our top 3?

Bellwoods
Great Lakes
Nickelbrook

Indie's quality is up and down. would still call them average...for now. think things will change in the next 6 months.
Flying Monkeys: honestly, still average. started on the scene years ago as gamechangers and then they did their band beer and have really fallen off. went to a tap takeover they did last year and most of the beer were undrinkable, sweet slop.
Not sure many around these parts consider Black Oak to be overly great. 10 Bitter Years was great years ago and it's declined quite a bit. the rest of their lineup's really just a bunch of standard styles. nothing that gets the heart pumping.

out of your list, Indie's the best, in my opinion.

Ontario breweries that i think one should look out for? Half Hours on Earth, Halo (in 6-12 months), Barncat, Burdock. in case you're wondering. :)

and no, i'm not discerning your opinion. some people forget that we're here to discuss. make a statement and back it up - which you did.

Fair ball, thanks for the suggestions. And yes, I was referring to Nickel Brook, I thought you might be more familiar with the Better Bitters Brewing name, which owns Nickel Brook, it is a bit confusing.

Had a Black Oak Nox Aeterna a couple of years back I thought was great, I do like the 10 Bitters personally but I think their Pale Ale is probably their best overall beer.
Flying Monkeys Cadillac Graveyard and Belle Epoque were both solid and Smashbomb Atomic is one of my go to IPA's pretty regularly.

Will look for those others next time out, cheers.
 

HannuJ

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Nov 20, 2011
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Learning a lot from this thread and finding it fascinating. Also finding it sometimes confusing. Wouldn't "(over) carbonation" make the beer "too fizzy"? Only I noticed when another poster used that term you didn't know what he meant. Can you expand on how over carbonation affects the beer? Thanks

that's a good question.
i'll try to make it make sense because it's clearly an issue that some breweries have.

beer's a liquid. you can attempt to saturate that liquid with gas (either oxygen when you're fermenting or CO2 when bottling). when you put units of CO2 into it, it's based on a few things, including style of beer. for example, a stout can have around 2 units of CO2 while a lambic tends to have 4 units.

not sure what the problem is with Oast, but i've had a # of bottles and pouring it is horrible. it looks like this:
overcarbonated.jpg


so you have a thick head that doesn't dissipate.

when you talk about carbonation and mouthfeel, that's something else. probably has to do with the malts used in the beer, thereby giving the perception of acidity along with the carbonation.

another neat thing is nitrogen-dispensed beer. that's what's done with Guiness. it turns beer into a milkshake-like beverage. thick and creamy and a great mouthfeel. works with stouts, porters and, occasionally, IPAs
 

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