Bedrooms in Olympic Village (cozy) (Read Mod Post #466)

[Fantomas]

What? Didn't you read the whole post with the quote? I'm ''defending'' Sochi but I guess the space between the quote, my words and the shake head aimed at the person in the quote wasn't too big for you....

All right.

 

[Xokkeu]

It sort of is. Everything was stolen from the ordinary Russian people by crooks in the 1990s. And now they are all "private" investors.

I'm a Siberian, and all of our resources and oil was essentially stolen to prop up Moscow and other playgrounds for the wealthy.

It is your money, and I'd take your criticisms with much more value than I do American and Canadians who are soooo upset about how Russia spent it's money.

 

[Fantomas]

No way

In Russia, you need to get kick-started by government in many cases because private investors in many cases face too many uncertainties to risk too much of their own money until the infrastructure is built and they see that they are going to get returns on their money within a reasonable time period.

Maybe this is what he wants to do ultimately in the future. Attract business after increased attention to the region.

 

[Drij]

How about $45 billion on infrastructure and 6 billion on sport venues? Didn't you guys spend like $20 billion on the big dig alone and that is a tiny undertaking compared to what they built in Sochi.

yeah but not all of that $50billion actually made it to Sochi, less then half likely.

 

[Fantomas]

yeah but not all of that $50billion actually made it to Sochi, less then half likely.

And this number surely came from an empirical study you authored.

 

[Drij]

One Finnish athlete already complained about Sochi. Some woman athlete. Hasn't been taken by the KGB. Yet.

At the last Olympics one athlete made a bad comment about something and was sent him for it.

 

[Dynamo81]

Maybe this is what he wants to do ultimately in the future. Attract business after increased attention to the region.

I believe so, numerous foreign millionaires and billionaires are in Sochi at the moment.

Even if this does not occur, Sochi needed the upgrades anyway, it was a major and ambitious project. I thought they would not be ready in time (Based on how a few ambitious projects I have seen in Moscow go 6 months past the deadline ) The facilities and many of the infrastructure projects were done in time and I am highly impressed.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

It is your money, and I'd take your criticisms with much more value than I do American and Canadians who are soooo upset about how Russia spent it's money.

Believe it or not, the Vancouver Olympics were heavily criticized by the taxpayers of Vancouver and BC for their expense. The majority of the population thought they were too expensive. This when their total cost was only 7 billion, few major venues had to be constructed, and the infrastructure improvements included in the costs (sea to sky highway, Canada line, Vancouver Exhibition centre etc) were sorely needed anyway.

 

[Drij]

And this number surely came from an empirical study you authored.

there's a video of putin inspecting Sochi and he asks why is the cost so high and they tell him "corruption". actual numbers would be impossible to figure out.

 

[Fantomas]

there's a video of putin inspecting Sochi and he asks why is the cost so high and they tell him "corruption". actual numbers would be impossible to figure out.

I'm sure there is corruption, but some media outlets float these figures which have completely no basis in empirical reality. And then people repeat the figures. It is tiring.

Most Olympic games are corrupt. Maybe all of them are. I don't know.

 

[crederer]

Maybe the Sochi organization didn't bother giving the guy all the necessary details before being there, that's why they didn't know where to go.


It seems that for the most part, the venues are great. The Canadian athletes seem to be happy too. It's the accommodation for the media people that seem to be lacking. Of all the people, the media will be the loudest of course.

Which is kind of odd if you think about it. You'd think the media would have the best accomodations as I'd doubt most of the athletes would have the gall to complain about conditions due to trying to be PC in public and whatnot.

 

[VladNYC*]

I think that the many "problems" (not security related of course) are over exaggerated, but I just would not happy if I was resident of Sochi considering how big of a hole their city/government will be in financially.

If they are able to turn a profit, of course it was a success. But, they won't even come close. Maybe if they are able to have larger world profile now, similar to Barcelona, then I'd call it a success. But at this stage I don't see it.

Wait you think the city of Sochi paid for a cent of this?

 

[Fantomas]

I believe so, numerous foreign millionaires and billionaires are in Sochi at the moment.

Even if this does not occur, Sochi needed the upgrades anyway, it was a major and ambitious project. I thought they would not be ready in time (Based on how a few ambitious projects I have seen in Moscow go 6 months past the deadline ) The facilities and many of the infrastructure projects were done in time and I am highly impressed.

Me too. And all of it looks extremely modern and should not be an eyesore in 20 years.

 

[Xokkeu]

Believe it or not, the Vancouver Olympics were heavily criticized by the taxpayers of Vancouver and BC for their expense. The majority of the population thought they were too expensive. This when their total cost was only 7 billion, few major venues had to be constructed, and the infrastructure improvements included in the costs (sea to sky highway, Canada line, Vancouver Exhibition centre etc) were sorely needed anyway.

Which is fair, the citizens of BC and Vancouver have a right to complain or praise either way about how much their government spends. I doubt however if people in Beijing or Moscow were calling your government corrupt and incompetent if you'd really want to hear it.

 

[Xokkeu]

Which is kind of odd if you think about it. You'd think the media would have the best accomodations as I'd doubt most of the athletes would have the gall to complain about conditions due to trying to be PC in public and whatnot.

The Russian organizers probably thought like normal people. Take care of the most important people first and the least important people last.

 

[Eisen]

Wait you think the city of Sochi paid for a cent of this?

Assuming they pay their taxes, at least a part of it.

 

[Xokkeu]

Most of those complains are just petty. And they are coming from countries like the US which have their own levels of corruption, spying and collusion. Not to mention their rapidly declining moral ground on the heels of the Iraq war.

And as for me, what happened in the Soviet times and the 90s happened, and what was lost will never be recovered. Have to move on and derive some joys from life and some pride about what we still have.

As you say, Russia and America, (or anybody) are not perfect, but the petty mudslinging is obnoxious.

 

[SimplySensational]

That's great, perhaps you can express to the Boston government that you don't want that to happen.

Post reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN3z3eSVG7A&t=2m12s

 

[CpatainCanuck]

Which is fair, the citizens of BC and Vancouver have a right to complain or praise either way about how much their government spends. I doubt however if people in Beijing or Moscow were calling your government corrupt and incompetent if you'd really want to hear it.

Probably not. But perhaps the reason the world's media and Putin's Opposition in Government is calling the Sochi olympics corrupt and incompetent is in fact because they are, not to simply dump on Russia?

The Associated Press - Wednesday Feb. 5, 2014 07:59 ET
Sochi will struggle to pay Olympic costs, Moody's says



Monday Jan. 13, 2014 READ FULL STORY
A major international ratings agency expects the local government in Sochi, Russia, to struggle with the cost of maintaining the Olympic venues despite massive state investment.

Moody's said in a report on Wednesday that Sochi and the Krasnodar region have benefited from government funding to prepare for the games, which will start this week. But they will struggle with the cost of maintaining the venues after the event is over, the agency said.

The Russian government auditing body has quoted estimates that it would cost at least $1.9 billion a year.

Moody's said it is uncertain whether the investment will boost tourism revenues enough.

Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev on Sunday ordered the government to come up with a plan for post-Olympic use of the venues. Some of them will be turned into shopping malls and convention centres.

Moody's also noted that the Olympics is "slightly negative" for the state-owned banks, such as VEB, that have been providing loans to build the Olympic site. Russian officials said last week that investors would not have to pay the loans back until late 2015.

Russian oligarchs who invested heavily in Sochi infrastructure have been petitioning for tax breaks and other benefits that would allow them to break even on their investment.

http://olympics.cbc.ca/news/article/sochi-will-struggle-pay-olympic-costs-moody-says.html

Billions stolen in Sochi Olympics preparations- Russian opposition
BY ALISSA DE CARBONNEL
MOSCOW Thu May 30, 2013 2:07pm EDT


(Reuters) - Russian businessmen and officials close to President Vladimir Putin have stolen up to $30 billion from funds intended for preparations for next year's Sochi Winter Olympics, according to a report released on Thursday by opposition leaders.

Putin, who has staked his reputation on a successful Games, faces criticism over allegations of corruption and costs overruns that have pushed up the price tag for the event to $50 billion - more than quadruple initial estimates, making them the most costly Olympics ever.

"In preparing for the Olympics $25 to $30 billion was stolen," Russian opposition leader Boris Nemtsov told reporters.

The report, written by Nemtsov and Leonid Martynyuk, another Putin critic, alleges that the most expensive sports facilities built for the Games were commissioned without competition or public tenders.

"Only oligarchs and companies close to Putin got rich," he wrote on his blog. "The absence of fair competition, cronyism... have led to a sharp increase in the costs and to the poor quality of the work to prepare for the Games."

Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, declined to comment on the criticism, saying he had not seen the report.

Russian contractors and others who have been involved in the building boom to prepare for the Sochi Games have complained of widespread corruption, but government officials have dismissed such reports and defended the cost overruns.

Comparing Sochi's price tag with that of previous Games, the report says that the final cost of Olympics over the last 16 years was on average about twice the amount initially planned.

By contrast, it says the Sochi Games - which Russia said in 2007 would cost about $12 billion - is more than four times pricier than planned.

But it does not provide specific detail of how or from which construction projects funds allegedly were embezzled.

"The fact is that almost everything that is related to the cost problems and abuses in preparation for the Olympic Games was carefully concealed and continues to be covered up by the authorities," Nemtsov wrote on his blog.

BUILT FROM SCRATCH

Corruption is endemic in Russia's construction industry, anti-graft activists say.

To create the infrastructure in what was one of Russia's least developed areas, almost everything had to be built from scratch in Sochi over the last six years.

Thirteen official facilities are being built, including a stadium that can accommodate 40,000 people and venues for ice hockey, skiing, snowboarding and skating.

Nemtsov's report casts doubt on the wisdom of planning the Winter Games in a subtropical climate and staging ski events in the peaks near the palm-tree lined streets of the Soviet-era resort city on the Black Sea.

Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Kozak, who is responsible for the 2014 Games, dismissed that criticism on Thursday and vowed the Olympics would be a success.

"In spite of envious people, the Russian Winter Olympic Games will be held in the southern capital - subtropical Sochi," he told reporters.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/30/us-olympics-sochi-corruption-idUSBRE94T0RU20130530

 

[gary laser eyes]

Although I think these media types are making a meal out of this situation, you can't ignore the fact that they had $50 billion dollars and almost 7 years to prepare. Any lack of preparedness is unacceptable for such a large global event like the Olympics, regardless of who is the host country and how much funding they had.

 

[Macman]

It is your money, and I'd take your criticisms with much more value than I do American and Canadians who are soooo upset about how Russia spent it's money.

I'm not going tell anyone how to spend their money, but as a Canadian I can tell you it took 30 years to pay off Montreal's $1.5-billion debt. Unfortunately, that's too often the legacy of a two-week party for egomaniacs. Athens has abandoned its venues because they're too costly to maintain. Beijing's sit largely empty, as does Montreal's. If Russia has figured out how to make its Olympic debt disappear, good for it but I suspect somebody will be paying the bills for a long time, and it's usually the little guy.

 

[Xokkeu]

I'm not going tell anyone how to spend their money, but as a Canadian I can tell you it took 30 years to pay off Montreal's $1.5-billion debt. Unfortunately, that's too often the legacy of a two-week party for egomaniacs. Athens has abandoned its venues because they're too costly to maintain. Beijing's sit largely empty, as does Montreal's. If Russia has figured out how to make its Olympic debt disappear, good for it but I suspect somebody will be paying the bills for a long time, and it's usually the little guy.

^Fair point

 

[Acallabeth]

I actually think Sochi is among the best places possible in Russia to host the Games.

It's a traditionally very popular sea resort that is anabiotic during the winter. Having a high-level winter resort there as well can do wonders for the region's economics, especially with all infrastructure investments. I'm sure it can grow being way more popular than the sea resort, because Black Sea has a short season, isn't crystal clean and overall it's not of the top level. Meanwhile mountain climate of Krasnaya Polyana seems to be very friendly. I'm also sure that it will be much easier for the skiing/biathlon federations to bid for World Cups stages held in Sochi, not frozen realms of Khanty-Mansiysk or obscure land of Tyumen'.

Olympic venues aren't also ridiculously huge or built for one months only. Mountain cluster doesn't need an explanation I guess as it will become a ski resort. Fisht is set for 25k spectators regularly, which is a nice number for a 400k Sochi (if you don't know, Krasnodar with ~800k population has two soccer teams who fill up ~25k seats for both of home teams playing on the ancient "Kuban" stadium), and I'm sure it will become one of the regular arenas for soccer national team. Bolshoy will be home for the new KHL team, and it's only 12k seats, not too high and unsustainable, but not 5-6k that can grow not being enough soon. Ice Cube is a small arena that will be transformed into a versatile complex. So Shayba and Iceberg are the only 2 arenas with yet uncertain future, there is a clear plan for all other venues post-Olympics. Another bonus is that all of them are pretty close to each other.

I agree that the price for the Games is ridiculously huge, but thinking that all of those billions would end up in people's pockets is naive. There would definitely be no project of renovating Sochi, and definitely no ambitions for being Russian sports southern capital. I don't expect Sochi project to profit any soon (or maybe ever), but it definitely isn't keeping the flame with money.

Now 2018 soccer World Cup is something with no post-event future at all.

 

[Xokkeu]

Now 2018 soccer World Cup is something with no post-event future at all.

Most of the stadiums are going to be used by RPL teams.

 

[Acallabeth]

Yeah, and none of those teams will ever come close to filling those capacities.