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Prospect Info: Bedard Topic 2

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BLKHKhockey said:
Lack of physical attributes and high end skating make it hard enough. Add in that he’s already way behind the curve in playing without the puck and he’s fighting a very steep uphill battle.

I won’t say he can’t do it, but I’m on onboard with moving him to wing. He can still swing low during transitions and carry the puck through the middle like how Kane did/does. He doesn’t have to be glued to the wall.
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Agree 100%. If for nothing else 98 playing wing takes the pressure off from playing first string center at 19.
 
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TLEH said:
Quite the extrapolation to say if you don't skate like Hughes you can't play center. Never said that or anything close to it. You guys act like him play W is a massive failure. I don't put it that way and it has more with me thinking it will get the best out of him long term. If he isn't the best at every single thing that is like blasphemy can't believe anyone would type that.

The guys that are 5'9 and play C all tend to be very fast. Point and Trocheck would be two examples. Nazar is an example of a player at similar size that I think has a better chance to play C just due to his skating.

This also doesn't have anything to do with his game vs Barkov in which the whole team got dominated. Bedard can play C in this league long term if they so choose. He is more than talented and smart enough. Doesn't mean its the right thing for him.
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All right what did you mean by saying Bedard isnt as good of a skater as Hughes. That had to mean something or were you just stating the obvious!? As Hughes is at the extreme end of spectrum. There are just few like him.

Those smaller guys werent as fast as they are now when they were prospects. Bedard is 19 and has plenty of time to get better. Like I said Bedard aint that far off.

Too early to put him on the wing.
 
BHawks77 said:
All right what did you mean by saying Bedard isnt as good of a skater as Hughes. That had to mean something or were you just stating the obvious!? As Hughes is at the extreme end of spectrum. There are just few like him.

Those smaller guys werent as fast as they are now when they were prospects. Bedard is 19 and has plenty of time to get better. Like I said Bedard aint that far off.

Too early to put him on the wing.
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Who are some examples of young guys who drastically improved their skating after entering the NHL?
 
GIADF said:
Who are some examples of young guys who drastically improved their skating after entering the NHL?
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Do you think Bedards skating is bad if you think he needs to improve it drastically?? I think he is really good skater he only needs to get faster first steps (strength) and learn to change speeds to throw off defenders.
 
I do think some people view wingers in a different way. I still think Bobby Hull and Gordon Howe are top 10 players all time to me. Ovi and jagr are close too.
GIADF said:
Bedard is so gifted and dynamic offensively that I really don’t see him as being a wing to be all that bad of a thing.
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That said he seems to think he is a center and he should play wherever he is comfortable. I think his role will make itself apparent
 
last season bedard had the 5th highest scoring season by an 18 year old since the salary cap (7th in goals, sandwiched between steven stamkos and andrei svenchnikov). this season he's on pace to set the 4th highest scoring 19 year old season in the same span. kane is 3rd. if he falls off pace by 3 points, he will finish 6th behind auston matthews. if he only scores 11 more points for the rest of the season to fall out of the top 10 and still finish tied with jack eichel's rookie season.

you could contextualize all of this by adjusting for league average scoring and all of that, and analytically that's worth doing, but i think it's also worth keeping in mind that bedard has been exceptional in a position very few players his age are given. whatever problems people see with his skating don't bother me that much, neither does him getting shut down in a game against probably the best defensive center in the game today. as others have pointed out, he's doing what he's doing without the benefit of good wingers to play with, good team center depth to take matchups, an nhl level d core to clear the puck, or an experienced and talented coaching staff to put all of these things together.

i think the question of whether he plays center or wing is scholastic without another true top six center on the team. it's more important than getting bedard better wingers really. if you have another legitimate option down the middle you can either move bedard to the wing and pair them up or you split them up and have a potent first and second line center combo. you tailor the answer to whatever works when you get to that point.
 
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Not trying to be critical of Bedard but I find it interesting looking back that he was considered to be a potentially generational talent despite having so many holes in his game. Skating/speed. Lack of size/strength. 2way play. It actually kind of makes it even more impressive that he’s been as impactful as he has despite having all these areas where he can still improve.
 
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SimpleJack said:
Not trying to be critical of Bedard but I find it interesting looking back that he was considered to be a potentially generational talent despite having so many holes in his game. Skating/speed. Lack of size/strength. 2way play. It actually kind of makes it even more impressive that he’s been as impactful as he has despite having all these areas where he can still improve.
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Meh, none of these generational types seem to be much of a two way player. Sometimes Crosby gets undue credit for it even though he was pretty average for his career and has been pretty bad for a couple years now.

Don’t think a generational type is always going to be very reliant on size, strength or speed. Each of these Generational types brings something different to the table. Gretz didn’t really have any elite tools like you speak of. To me it’s more skill, IQ, vision for connor. Remains to be seen if that’s enough to be generational in his case. More than likely to me that he looks like a better version of Kane with more toughness and better D when he matures.
 
as a side note, expecting crosby out of bedard was always going to be a good way to be disappointed. young crosby was absolutely goofy. he is on top of both lists i mentioned above with the highest scoring 18 and 19 year old nhl seasons since the 05 lockout. in 05-06 he scored 102 and in 06-07 he scored 120. the next highest 18 and 19 year old seasons were laine with 64 and stamkos with 95 respectively. no age peer has come closer than within 25 points of 18/19 year old crosby in nearly the last four decades.
 
IMO Bedard needs to shoot more, and if he did shoot on some of the odd man chances he finds himself in as opposed to trying to make a pretty play, he would have 10-15 more goals.
 
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SimpleJack said:
Not trying to be critical of Bedard but I find it interesting looking back that he was considered to be a potentially generational talent despite having so many holes in his game. Skating/speed. Lack of size/strength. 2way play. It actually kind of makes it even more impressive that he’s been as impactful as he has despite having all these areas where he can still improve.
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goal scoring seems to be up across the board as well, he is still going to develop into a 40+ goal scorer consistently as a base case, like there is zero reason he can't be a willy nylander type winger if he can't figure it out at center
 
at some point you have to accept the numbers for what they are, he's not putting up the goal totals that he was expected to coming into the league, so either that needs to change or you accept reality and put him at wing and hope that it unlocks the offensive production that was expected out of him coming in...can't just be stubborn and keep him at center, we didn't draft him to be nico hischier so if its 30g and ppg at center or its 40-50 and 100+ at wing have him go try to be kane and fix center via other avenues
 
Toews2Bickell said:
at some point you have to accept the numbers for what they are, he's not putting up the goal totals that he was expected to coming into the league, so either that needs to change or you accept reality and put him at wing and hope that it unlocks the offensive production that was expected out of him coming in...can't just be stubborn and keep him at center, we didn't draft him to be nico hischier so if its 30g and ppg at center or 100+ at wing have him go try to be kane and fix center via other avenues
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Take a guess at what season Patrick Kane first hit 40 goals.
 
Hattrick Kane said:
Take a guess at what season Patrick Kane first hit 40 goals.
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goal totals are up these days, what does prime kane put up now when there are no star goalies like there were during his prime...again if nylander is a 40 goal guy at wing then so will bedard, adam gaudette has more goals than bedard right now, bedard is producing like hischier at center...


don't understand the reluctancy at all to put bedard at wing, he's not strong defensively, he doesn't project as a blue chip 200 ft center, he was supposed to put up monster offensive numbers and he's not doing that, what does it hurt to give him a 20 game run at wing and see what happens
 
Toews2Bickell said:
goal totals are up these days, what does prime kane put up now when there are no star goalies like there were during his prime...again if nylander is a 40 goal guy at wing then so will bedard, adam gaudette has more goals than bedard right now, bedard is producing like hischier at center...


don't understand the reluctancy at all to put bedard at wing, he's not strong defensively, he doesn't project at a blue chip 200 ft center, he was supposed to put up monster offensive numbers and he's not doing that, what does it hurt to give him a 20 game run at wing and see what happens
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A 19 year old with no help not even close to his prime and his goal scoring is what it is?

You’re clearly not very bright. I don’t know what to tell you.
 
Hattrick Kane said:
A 19 year old with no help not even close to his prime and his goal scoring is what it is?

You’re clearly not very bright. I don’t know what to tell you.
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ah jumping to insults, is that the tourney bedard had a historical run at rw for canada as your avatar? just wondering
 
Toews2Bickell said:
ah jumping to insults, is that the tourney bedard had a historical run at rw for canada as your avatar? just wondering
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Oh yes it is. Because centres never play wings in these tournaments. I guess when Crosby was playing with Bergeron, one of them was a career winger.
 
Hattrick Kane said:
Oh yes it is. Because centres never play wings in these tournaments. I guess when Crosby was playing with Bergeron, one of them was a career winger.
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yes and if you move bedard to wing for 20 games you can never again play him at center, those are the rules...kane moved off wing in 2012 to try center and he never went back to wing, its crazy, like he completely forgot how to play the position
 
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Some people are forgetting how many years it did take for MacKinnon and Jack Hughes to break out. And look at them now maybe have a little patience! Development isnt liniar for any prospect!
 
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Things should really open up once the Hawks have a bit more help up front. The weight of the team's offense is on his shoulders right now.

Tied for 2nd in even strength goals
2nd in powerplay goals
1st in even strength assists
1st in powerplay assists

Bedard can't pass it to Bedard. Maybe one day he'll be in a good position to lead a team with little offensive help in all areas and still dominate enough to carry a team to a middle of the road offense (Panarin and Pastrnak are basically tasked with this at present), but it's a tough threshold for a 19 year old.
 
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