Prospect Info: Bedard Topic 2

[Hawkaholic]

And how many of those assists were on the PP?

This is the Kurashev situation from last season all over again when so many thought they were so good together because of some success with the man advantage. 5 on 5 hockey is a different animal, obviously.....In yesterday's game the first line was hemmed into their own zone more than not.

3 of them were on the PP.

Lol no one thought Kurashev was a decent player, let's be real. Bertuzzi goes to the hard areas of the ice, which helps Bedard.

And of course our 1st line is hemmed in our own zone, it's not really a 1st line playing against other real 1st lines every game. Lol

 

[BobbyJet]

3 of them were on the PP.

Lol no one thought Kurashev was a decent player, let's be real. Bertuzzi goes to the hard areas of the ice, which helps Bedard.

And of course our 1st line is hemmed in our own zone, it's not really a 1st line playing against other real 1st lines every game. Lol

OK, got it. You say (while laughing) that Bertuzzi is a good fit on Bedard's line but it's a bad line against against ops first line. So what good is it having a net presence guy alongside Bedard when the line can't even get possession of the puck most of the time?
So I repeat, why not try and solve the possession problem - get a winger who can play a solid defensive game alongside 98 and 95? That winger is not Bert......Foligno, Craig or Dickenson would be better choices, and all 3 of those guys are quite capable of parking in the blue paint (but you have to get there first). In Dickenson's case he could also take the draw. As I said, I do agree that Bert is the perfect net presence guy on the PP.

 

[Hawkaholic]

OK, got it. You say (while laughing) that Bertuzzi is a good fit on Bedard's line but it's a bad line against against ops first line. So what good is it having a net presence guy alongside Bedard when the line can't even get possession of the puck most of the time?So I repeat, why not try and solve the possession problem - get a winger who can play a solid defensive game alongside 98 and 95? That winger is not Bert......Foligno, Craig or Dickenson would be better choices, and all 3 of those guys are quite capable of parking in the blue paint (but you have to get there first). In Dickenson's case he could also take the draw. As I said, I do agree that Bert is the perfect net presence guy on the PP.

Bedard has better all around numbers with Bertuzzi than he does with Mikheyev. I'm not sure why you would want a black hole offensively, next to Bedard. That's exactly what the dumb ass old coach did, and Bedard suffered because of it.

Bedard with Bertuzzi, 5 on 5
CF% = 46.67
xGF% = 44.64
SCF% = 45.76
OZS% = 56.52

Bedard with Mikheyev 5 on 5
CF% = 45.07
xGF% = 43.84
SCF% = 36.5
OZS% = 58

Not a single number 5 on 5 is better with Mikheyev than it is with Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi can put the puck in the net, Mikheyev can't. Mik also doesn't play the net front presence that Bert does. The goal should be finding a decent player to play with Bert and Bedard, and not adding more offensive black holes to Bedards line.

 

[BobbyJet]

Bedard has better all around numbers with Bertuzzi than he does with Mikheyev. I'm not sure why you would want a black hole offensively, next to Bedard. That's exactly what the dumb ass old coach did, and Bedard suffered because of it.

Bedard with Bertuzzi, 5 on 5
CF% = 46.67
xGF% = 44.64
SCF% = 45.76
OZS% = 56.52

Bedard with Mikheyev 5 on 5
CF% = 45.07
xGF% = 43.84
SCF% = 36.5
OZS% = 58

Not a single number 5 on 5 is better with Mikheyev than it is with Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi can put the puck in the net, Mikheyev can't. Mik also doesn't play the net front presence that Bert does. The goal should be finding a decent player to play with Bert and Bedard, and not adding more offensive black holes to Bedards line.

Now it is about Mikheyev? Last I looked there were 3 players to a line. 95 has the speed to make some space in the offensive zone and is good defensively but not that physical - the line needs a third guy who can get in the dirty areas and come out with the puck, as well as to win more faceoffs. Possession is the name of the game.
We can all see (hopefully) that Bedard needs more help than simply playing with a guy who can park himself in the crease. They have to get there first.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Now it is about Mikheyev? Last I looked there were 3 players to a line. 95 has the speed to make some space in the offensive zone and is good defensively but not that physical - the line needs a third guy who can get in the dirty areas and come out with the puck, as well as to win more faceoffs. Possession is the name of the game.
We can all see (hopefully) that Bedard needs more help than simply playing with a guy who can park himself in the crease. They have to get there first.

Yes, because you keep talking like Mikheyev is a solution to Bedards line, for some odd reason. Not one stat backs up that he is better than Bertuzzi is. Bertuzzi is the guy who can go to the paint, and wins puck battles, you need someone better than Mikheyev to go with them to make the line better, not the other way around like you suggest.

 

[statswatcher]

what good is it having a net presence guy alongside Bedard when the line can't even get possession of the puck most of the time?

for the last seven games, it's been good for six goals, three of them 5v5. nearly a goal every two games isn't world beating, but it's far from even strength futility. you could also say it's a small sample size, so projecting out from those numbers is fraught, but that doesn't change the analysis of those seven games in abstract.

Possession is the name of the game.

the name of the game is hockey actually. possession is an important aspect of the game, but as was pointed out above, mikheyev may have the best aggregate possession numbers on the team at 5v5 currently, but his numbers with bedard are somewhat worse than bert's numbers with same.

i'm not even particularly married to bert on the first line, and certainly not long term. it's just interesting to me that you make a claim, that being bert has inflated his recent point totals with powerplay merchantry, it gets shown in no uncertain terms to be false, and you smoothly pivot away from the point onto a congruent one without so much as a sentence acknowledging that you were unequivocally wrong.

 

[BobbyJet]

Yes, because you keep talking like Mikheyev is a solution to Bedards line, for some odd reason. Not one stat backs up that he is better than Bertuzzi is. Bertuzzi is the guy who can go to the paint, and wins puck battles, you need someone better than Mikheyev to go with them to make the line better, not the other way around like you suggest.

The problem is Hawks have tried many different combos, and there is no real solution for Bedard with this current roster and until the roster is upgraded, this is all there is to work with. Despite what the stats are, Hawks fans need to admit that he is struggling to play the game he is capable of .... and a few even strength assists on the score sheet does not change that. I have watched what Bert is capable of .... here and on other teams. He can't skate worth a dam, he falls a lot and is not effective in his board play or in his own end. His game consists of hanging around the crease and some seem think that is enough. Fine, but it didn't work out in TO playing with two of the best offensive players in the league and I don't see it being any better in Chicago.

 

[Hawkaholic]

The problem is Hawks have tried many different combos, and there is no real solution for Bedard with this current roster and until the roster is upgraded, this is all there is to work with. Despite what the stats are, Hawks fans need to admit that he is struggling to play the game he is capable of .... and a few even strength assists on the score sheet does not change that. I have watched what Bert is capable of .... here and on other teams. He can't skate worth a dam, he falls a lot and is not effective in his board play or in his own end. His game consists of hanging around the crease and some seem think that is enough. Fine, but it didn't work out in TO playing with two of the best offensive players in the league and I don't see it being any better in Chicago.

For the 100th time, no one thinks Bertuzzi is the long term solution for Bedard, he's just the best of what they currently have.

His skating is fine, especially since Bedard isn't a burner either, and he is still a much better option than Mikheyev (who has been tried there multiple times this year) and pretty much everyone else who has been tried next to him to this day, and it's been clear as day since he has been put on that line.

Bertuzzi nor Bedard is the problem on that line, it's finding someone to go with them that has been the issue.

 

[CallMeShaft]

I hadn't been keeping up with Michkov's play this season, but saw his thread in the draft boards, so decided to look up his stats.

He's currently on pace to hit 60pts in 80 games, while being the 2nd best player offensively on his team. Philly's top forward, Konecny, is on pace for 90pts in 82 games.

Bedard put up 61pts in only 68 games last season, while being over a year and a half younger than MM is currently, and having his best teammate (offensively speaking) be f***ing Phillip Kurashev.

Both are good players, don't get me wrong. But still, Bedard dominated his rookie year and Michkov is merely doing decently. Interesting comparison.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Kanes first 109GP
34G 71A 105PTS

Bedards first 109GP
33G 65A 98PTS

Kanes most common 5 on 5 linesmates
Toews Havlat Lang Ruutu Versteeg Sharp

Bedards most common linemates
Kurashev Foligno Beauvillier Teravainen Donato Bertuzzi

 

[Dr Salt]

The November slump is gonna keep the end-of-season numbers from being sexy but I'm now at the point where I'm more confident in his superstardom than I was when we picked him!

 

[hawksfan50]

Bedard last 6GP including the Wibter Ckasic:

Only 8 shots on goal..only 1 goal..he has 5a in this span but at least he is ONLY -3. over this span of less than 1a/game and very sparde goal scoring g.

I think you can make a case of mostly invisible ...a failure.. or st least not very effective.

You are not scary g any opposition woth justv8 shotson goal over 7GP..

Last 2 games especially (1 shog over last 2GP)....not acceptable for any1C..

Also for his lastv8vshotsvpvervthe last 6GP , in 5/6 games he was 0% in shooting %..

Look folks...not buying the only 19 excuse..Heis not doing not only nothing Generational,but failing to do what he was supised to have as his best ability...shoot and score goals with that supposedly amazing shot.. Wherevusvit..we only get to see it in rare instances far too little .

Almost as if hevis vo tent if he getsx1a over 3/4 of the schedule but rarely elevates forv70 to ...you know...Light the lamp.. whoch is the thing that he supposedly was very goidxat and got him drFted#1overall.

He has gotvyobshhot Moore...get himself into thevo-zobe with the puck and tKevover games by beating the ipps goalie much more than in rare instances.

GOAL Scoring is up in the NHL..Hevis failing to do his part.

Imagine.. only 8 shots mustered in last 6GP..imagine a 0 % shooter over last5/6 GP especially given 1C role and all the TOI he gets and PP time..
Not good enough...
All the hype on his 9 game point streak,which ended last night, was mostly overblown because it was mostly 1a and that's all folks/ invisible rest of gamte.

Reichel pkaying 4th line minutes ...gettingbinly 1/3 Bedard's TOI gets roasted for not sxorkbg or even not assisting (despite tge bums ge us on with)..but Bedard gets let off the hook for his failure to gane change or even scare the opps with his allegedly generational shot because he cannot even get it off much?

Now if you still insist on giving Bedard the yute excuse as "only 19",you coukd argue that MacklimCelebrini had si.ilar results in shoiting .%..ie 0% in 5 of hisvkast 6GP and a worse +/-...Cejebrini -5 and Bedard only -3 in last 6HP...but at least Cekebrini was showing up trying...He had double the shog that Bedard mustered=19 shotsvon goal to the paltry 8 "generated" by Bedard..

Cekebrini justcfaced I think better competing than did the Hawksvifvyou look who they pkayed ..only weakling was PHI..restcall good teams ...overall better tougher competition than Hawks faced..Pribably better goalies too.

Still acid 1 year younger than Bedard generated 19 shots on goal..Bedard onlyb8 in last 6GO.

This is the startling ineffective measure for Bedard that I am so disappointed in..Hevus bit generating enough shots on goal..I have nit looked at shot-attempted.. but still shog is simple stat.. if it is low..you are hardly much of a goal scoribg threat.. He just is nit generations even enough shots to get his goal scoring up..

Sure..if he had better pkayers on hisvkine he woukd get more assists..but IF with thise he still gets low shot totals per game then we did Not get our franchise pkayer...notcat all.

Tte minus for young pkayers I can understand..but not showing the energy and ability to get higher shot totals *which also is a marker of possession is very very worrisome.

 

[aRielzinhooo]

My thoughts on Bedard: Hes playing hes sophomore season and still producing really well for 2nd year NHL-player. But my negatives are that I cant see him being a top line center in this league. Too small player while he lacks skating speed. After one and half season I dont see him next Sid or McDavid anymore. Dont take this in a bad way because I still think he can be 100point player as a winger with a better supporting cast. I like to compare him to Jack Hughes. Jack is also small player but hes elite at skating. Hes basically flying out there.

 

[Chelios]

My thoughts on Bedard: Hes playing hes sophomore season and still producing really well for 2nd year NHL-player. But my negatives are that I cant see him being a top line center in this league. Too small player while he lacks skating speed. After one and half season I dont see him next Sid or McDavid anymore. Dont take this in a bad way because I still think he can be 100point player as a winger with a better supporting cast. I like to compare him to Jack Hughes. Jack is also small player but hes elite at skating. Hes basically flying out there.

There is a huge gulf between those two statements. Absolutely nothing suggests Bedard can’t be a top line centre in this league.

 

[CallMeShaft]

My thoughts on Bedard: Hes playing hes sophomore season and still producing really well for 2nd year NHL-player. But my negatives are that I cant see him being a top line center in this league. Too small player while he lacks skating speed. After one and half season I dont see him next Sid or McDavid anymore. Dont take this in a bad way because I still think he can be 100point player as a winger with a better supporting cast. I like to compare him to Jack Hughes. Jack is also small player but hes elite at skating. Hes basically flying out there.

So you're comparing Bedard to Jack Hughes, the 1st line center on the Devils, while trying to say that Connor can't make it as a center?

You do mention that Hughes is "flying out there" and maybe that's what you think is the difference between them, but Bedard is hugely efficient at zone entries, which is one of the biggest reasons for needing to be a fast skater down the middle.

The reason he's been at center, and the reason he'll continue to get time at center, is because it's easier to distribute the puck (which he's elite at) in the middle of the ice, as opposed to along the boards. Some guys can excel at it at wing (Kane, Kucherov, etc), but it's always beneficial to try those guys at center and see if they can hack it.

Worst case, yes, he ends up at wing. We're all aware of this possibility. But it's worth continuing having him at center right now and hoping he can continually grow his game. He did just have a 9 game point streak snapped last night, so it's not like he's struggling offensively. I'd much rather keep him at center and try to have some harder to play against/matchup centers behind him so he can focus more on what he does best, which is putting up points.