Prospect Info: Bedard Topic 2

[Hawkaholic]

And how many of those assists were on the PP?

This is the Kurashev situation from last season all over again when so many thought they were so good together because of some success with the man advantage. 5 on 5 hockey is a different animal, obviously.....In yesterday's game the first line was hemmed into their own zone more than not.

3 of them were on the PP.

Lol no one thought Kurashev was a decent player, let's be real. Bertuzzi goes to the hard areas of the ice, which helps Bedard.

And of course our 1st line is hemmed in our own zone, it's not really a 1st line playing against other real 1st lines every game. Lol

 

[BobbyJet]

3 of them were on the PP.

Lol no one thought Kurashev was a decent player, let's be real. Bertuzzi goes to the hard areas of the ice, which helps Bedard.

And of course our 1st line is hemmed in our own zone, it's not really a 1st line playing against other real 1st lines every game. Lol

OK, got it. You say (while laughing) that Bertuzzi is a good fit on Bedard's line but it's a bad line against against ops first line. So what good is it having a net presence guy alongside Bedard when the line can't even get possession of the puck most of the time?
So I repeat, why not try and solve the possession problem - get a winger who can play a solid defensive game alongside 98 and 95? That winger is not Bert......Foligno, Craig or Dickenson would be better choices, and all 3 of those guys are quite capable of parking in the blue paint (but you have to get there first). In Dickenson's case he could also take the draw. As I said, I do agree that Bert is the perfect net presence guy on the PP.

 

[Hawkaholic]

OK, got it. You say (while laughing) that Bertuzzi is a good fit on Bedard's line but it's a bad line against against ops first line. So what good is it having a net presence guy alongside Bedard when the line can't even get possession of the puck most of the time?So I repeat, why not try and solve the possession problem - get a winger who can play a solid defensive game alongside 98 and 95? That winger is not Bert......Foligno, Craig or Dickenson would be better choices, and all 3 of those guys are quite capable of parking in the blue paint (but you have to get there first). In Dickenson's case he could also take the draw. As I said, I do agree that Bert is the perfect net presence guy on the PP.

Bedard has better all around numbers with Bertuzzi than he does with Mikheyev. I'm not sure why you would want a black hole offensively, next to Bedard. That's exactly what the dumb ass old coach did, and Bedard suffered because of it.

Bedard with Bertuzzi, 5 on 5
CF% = 46.67
xGF% = 44.64
SCF% = 45.76
OZS% = 56.52

Bedard with Mikheyev 5 on 5
CF% = 45.07
xGF% = 43.84
SCF% = 36.5
OZS% = 58

Not a single number 5 on 5 is better with Mikheyev than it is with Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi can put the puck in the net, Mikheyev can't. Mik also doesn't play the net front presence that Bert does. The goal should be finding a decent player to play with Bert and Bedard, and not adding more offensive black holes to Bedards line.

 

[BobbyJet]

Bedard has better all around numbers with Bertuzzi than he does with Mikheyev. I'm not sure why you would want a black hole offensively, next to Bedard. That's exactly what the dumb ass old coach did, and Bedard suffered because of it.

Bedard with Bertuzzi, 5 on 5
CF% = 46.67
xGF% = 44.64
SCF% = 45.76
OZS% = 56.52

Bedard with Mikheyev 5 on 5
CF% = 45.07
xGF% = 43.84
SCF% = 36.5
OZS% = 58

Not a single number 5 on 5 is better with Mikheyev than it is with Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi can put the puck in the net, Mikheyev can't. Mik also doesn't play the net front presence that Bert does. The goal should be finding a decent player to play with Bert and Bedard, and not adding more offensive black holes to Bedards line.

Now it is about Mikheyev? Last I looked there were 3 players to a line. 95 has the speed to make some space in the offensive zone and is good defensively but not that physical - the line needs a third guy who can get in the dirty areas and come out with the puck, as well as to win more faceoffs. Possession is the name of the game.
We can all see (hopefully) that Bedard needs more help than simply playing with a guy who can park himself in the crease. They have to get there first.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Now it is about Mikheyev? Last I looked there were 3 players to a line. 95 has the speed to make some space in the offensive zone and is good defensively but not that physical - the line needs a third guy who can get in the dirty areas and come out with the puck, as well as to win more faceoffs. Possession is the name of the game.
We can all see (hopefully) that Bedard needs more help than simply playing with a guy who can park himself in the crease. They have to get there first.

Yes, because you keep talking like Mikheyev is a solution to Bedards line, for some odd reason. Not one stat backs up that he is better than Bertuzzi is. Bertuzzi is the guy who can go to the paint, and wins puck battles, you need someone better than Mikheyev to go with them to make the line better, not the other way around like you suggest.

 

[statswatcher]

what good is it having a net presence guy alongside Bedard when the line can't even get possession of the puck most of the time?

for the last seven games, it's been good for six goals, three of them 5v5. nearly a goal every two games isn't world beating, but it's far from even strength futility. you could also say it's a small sample size, so projecting out from those numbers is fraught, but that doesn't change the analysis of those seven games in abstract.

Possession is the name of the game.

the name of the game is hockey actually. possession is an important aspect of the game, but as was pointed out above, mikheyev may have the best aggregate possession numbers on the team at 5v5 currently, but his numbers with bedard are somewhat worse than bert's numbers with same.

i'm not even particularly married to bert on the first line, and certainly not long term. it's just interesting to me that you make a claim, that being bert has inflated his recent point totals with powerplay merchantry, it gets shown in no uncertain terms to be false, and you smoothly pivot away from the point onto a congruent one without so much as a sentence acknowledging that you were unequivocally wrong.

 

[BobbyJet]

Yes, because you keep talking like Mikheyev is a solution to Bedards line, for some odd reason. Not one stat backs up that he is better than Bertuzzi is. Bertuzzi is the guy who can go to the paint, and wins puck battles, you need someone better than Mikheyev to go with them to make the line better, not the other way around like you suggest.

The problem is Hawks have tried many different combos, and there is no real solution for Bedard with this current roster and until the roster is upgraded, this is all there is to work with. Despite what the stats are, Hawks fans need to admit that he is struggling to play the game he is capable of .... and a few even strength assists on the score sheet does not change that. I have watched what Bert is capable of .... here and on other teams. He can't skate worth a dam, he falls a lot and is not effective in his board play or in his own end. His game consists of hanging around the crease and some seem think that is enough. Fine, but it didn't work out in TO playing with two of the best offensive players in the league and I don't see it being any better in Chicago.

 

[Hawkaholic]

The problem is Hawks have tried many different combos, and there is no real solution for Bedard with this current roster and until the roster is upgraded, this is all there is to work with. Despite what the stats are, Hawks fans need to admit that he is struggling to play the game he is capable of .... and a few even strength assists on the score sheet does not change that. I have watched what Bert is capable of .... here and on other teams. He can't skate worth a dam, he falls a lot and is not effective in his board play or in his own end. His game consists of hanging around the crease and some seem think that is enough. Fine, but it didn't work out in TO playing with two of the best offensive players in the league and I don't see it being any better in Chicago.

For the 100th time, no one thinks Bertuzzi is the long term solution for Bedard, he's just the best of what they currently have.

His skating is fine, especially since Bedard isn't a burner either, and he is still a much better option than Mikheyev (who has been tried there multiple times this year) and pretty much everyone else who has been tried next to him to this day, and it's been clear as day since he has been put on that line.

Bertuzzi nor Bedard is the problem on that line, it's finding someone to go with them that has been the issue.