OT: Baseball?

[ziploc]

That's because it's so goddamn expensive to go. I like hockey followed the team for as long as I can remember but I never go to games cause it's a minimum 200 dollar night.

Baseball is great like that you have a free Wednesday night go chill in right field for 10 bucks and watch them take on Marlins or someone.

Premium games are still expensive but day games mid week it's easy to just go and sit down for basically nothing.

Agreed. The prices are outrageous, and it's killing the future fanbase. I have 4 kids, and the only way we go to games is if we get free tickets (happened a bunch this past year).

 

[Hit the post]

The Canadians are about as good as we're going to get, and even they have dropped from Triple A to Single A.

I could be wrong but I always thought the Canadians were supported well here in Vancouver (sure it helped the AAA team actually won at least a championship or two - much like the current A team). It just was a case of the owner seeking even greater revenues elsewhere (in another city).

I saw a Canadians game this past weekend...place didn't seem empty (decent crowd). Didn't realize until later Roger Clemens son played for the Canadians!

 

[Captain Bowie]

I could be wrong but I always thought the Canadians were supported well here in Vancouver (sure it helped the AAA team actually won at least a championship or two - much like the current A team). It just was a case of the owner seeking even greater revenues elsewhere (in another city).

I saw a Canadians game this past weekend...place didn't seem empty (decent crowd). Didn't realize until later Roger Clemens son played for the Canadians!

Canadians are very well supported.... for a Single A team. They sell out their 5K stadium every weekend I think and do well during the week as well I believe. But $14 seats + nice outdoor stadium + weather makes that easier to do.

 

[Siludin]

It's larger than some of the current MLB cities. Am I wrong in assuming that it's a baseball town/province?

Baseball would compete against the CFL and MLS. If MLS wasn't already here I could see it. There is an appetite for baseball but it comes mostly from the suburbs. If the park was small & intimate so that they could sell out every game that would be good. I am thinking a 25,000-30,000 person stadium. The success of the Canadians right now is based on the atmosphere at the games.

 

[MS]

I could be wrong but I always thought the Canadians were supported well here in Vancouver (sure it helped the AAA team actually won at least a championship or two - much like the current A team). It just was a case of the owner seeking even greater revenues elsewhere (in another city).

I saw a Canadians game this past weekend...place didn't seem empty (decent crowd). Didn't realize until later Roger Clemens son played for the Canadians!

Vancouver would be a perfectly fine AAA location ... again, with a new stadium.

Nat Bailey seats about half of what most AAA ballparks do, and these are again all retro-fit parks built in the last 20 years. A 6000 seat stadium built in 1951 might have been good enough for AAA in 1990, but it isn't in 2017.

All the fan support in the world couldn't save AAA baseball here when cities in the US are building their teams parks like this to try and attract teams :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Diamond

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chukchansi_Park

 

[PG Canuck]

That's because it's so goddamn expensive to go. I like hockey followed the team for as long as I can remember but I never go to games cause it's a minimum 200 dollar night.

Baseball is great like that you have a free Wednesday night go chill in right field for 10 bucks and watch them take on Marlins or someone.

Premium games are still expensive but day games mid week it's easy to just go and sit down for basically nothing.

Yeah this is true. I'm going to 4 Mariners games for the price of one Canucks game. Way easier to take a family for that price.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Basically what has been said. Vancouver is not particularly big and so many immigrants (not just Asian) who are not as familiar or interested in North American sports. And baseball... Well, I am a huge fan of the sport but I've tried explaining the game to some people from other countries and... You don't realize how hard the game is to understand until you've tried explaining it to someone who does not have a clue, haha.

And I mean, we don't even support the canucks all that well when they suck.

 

[VanCity Millionaires]

I don't think we suck at all. I mean, we aren't one of those blue-collar cold-climate mid-west US cities like Pittsburgh or Cleveland where fans live and die sports and there isn't much else to do ... but we aren't really any different than any other coastal NA city, I don't think.

A few things are in play :

1) Again, we're a very small city by NFL/MLB/NBA standards. But even at that we support the Canucks pretty rabidly, and the NBA was killed by the horrible product and Canadian dollar.

2) In that small population is a huge Asian component, and culturally this group just isn't as interested in NA pro sports.

3) In terms of summer sports, we built the wrong stadium at the wrong time. BC place was a dinosaur by the time it was 5 years old. If we'd built a great retro outdoor stadium on the water 10-12 years later that people here were really proud of and wanted to spend time at on a summer day, things might be completely different.

4) We're stuck with that crap stadium, because nobody is going to front the money for a new one, and we won't see a city government drop $500 million on one as you see in the US.

So yeah, we're a small city with a bad stadium. And that isn't going to change.

We're really not that small of a city compared to most MLB cities. GVRD has about 2.5M... if you start looking at all the mid-market teams you'll find very few over 2.5M.

Asians are huge into basketball and baseball. And most have way, way more money than blue-collar Americans.

I agree the stadium isn't perfect.

We just voted in the NDP, so ya, kiss any idea of that goodbye. (though the NDP do like to spend money stupidly and frivolously)

The stadium in Montreal was a piece of junk. They weren't making money the last several years. It wasn't sustainable at Olympic Stadium whatsoever. The good players didn't want to play there. I can't blame that on MLB.

Vancouver makes way more sense than Montreal. No American/Hispanic would want to play in a french speaking market (and anti-anglophone in general), and I don't blame them!

 

[Hit the post]

Vancouver makes way more sense than Montreal. No American/Hispanic would want to play in a french speaking market (and anti-anglophone in general), and I don't blame them!

To be fair, that's where the great Jackie Robinson first became a professional baseball player...

 

[namttebih]

Thanks for all of the responses guys. Out of curiosity, is this ever discussed on local sports radio?

 

[MS]

We're really not that small of a city compared to most MLB cities. GVRD has about 2.5M... if you start looking at all the mid-market teams you'll find very few over 2.5M.

There are only 5 markets in MLB with a metro population under 2.5 million - Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Kansas City, and Milwakuee. All are blue-collar midwest markets with a massive baseball history.

We'd be a very small MLB market.

Asians are huge into basketball and baseball. And most have way, way more money than blue-collar Americans.

My impression is that the Asian community here is very much into basketball but not into baseball at all. I could stand to be corrected on that, though.

I agree the stadium isn't perfect.

We just voted in the NDP, so ya, kiss any idea of that goodbye. (though the NDP do like to spend money stupidly and frivolously)

Our stadium situation isn't just 'not perfect', it's awful. Again, if we could ever get a 25-30k waterfront retro-fit stadium that people here were proud of and wanted to spend a summer day at, it would be absolutely massive for the Whitecaps and Lions, and I think attendance for both clubs would spike in a massive way.

As for baseball, forget about it.

And yeah, nothing is coming in the next decade at the very least. Which is a shame, when you look at some of the things that money gets spent on.

 

[mathonwy]

Vancouver is not your typical sports town. We will never be like a Chicago or Boston or New York

Vancouver COULD be a very good sports town if we had a major league team that was owned by owners that were serious about building a franchise as opposed to milking the fans and players for $$$.

Everything about the Canucks franchise has been a marketing cluster.

Most recent case in point, look at how poorly a portion of today's Canuck fans view the 2011 team. Defending Jimbo and always putting down Gillis. Stale core BS and what not. It really is unfathomable how many so called Canuck fans are in this group.

Also along this vein, look at how unhappy the 2011 core has been over the last few years (14-15 aside). Up-tempo hockey requires players that give an eff. The last couple years, most of the vets did not give an eff. Unhappy employees = crappy management.

It's not Vancouver or BC.

It's the past instability of ownership combined with the greediness of today's owners that have contributed to the perception that Vancouver is not a typical sports town.

 

[mathonwy]

I would welcome ANY major league sport in Vancouver as it would suddenly create a competitor to the Canucks.

Especially so if it were owned by competent owners.

MLB is only boring because there's no emotional investment. Once you get emotionally invested, you start getting into the weeds and the weeds in MLB are very very thick.

It would also help to have a few Canadian born players on the team right off the bat to cheer for as well.

 

[PM]

If we did have a MLB team we would probably have to pay Cubs fan prices to see a White Sox level product. The one thing Vancouver does great is make you overpay for stuff that is cheaper, higher quality and more accessible elsewhere.

Driving to Vancouver sucks too. I live in Victoria and even if Vancouver did have a MLB team I wouldn't be surprised if it would still be cheaper to go see the Mariners in Seattle. The only downside is getting hassled at the border by power hungry border agents.

 

[Hit the post]

Driving to Vancouver sucks too.

No uber here as well...yet.

 

[Bam19]

If we did have a MLB team we would probably have to pay Cubs fan prices to see a White Sox level product. The one thing Vancouver does great is make you overpay for stuff that is cheaper, higher quality and more accessible elsewhere.

Driving to Vancouver sucks too. I live in Victoria and even if Vancouver did have a MLB team I wouldn't be surprised if it would still be cheaper to go see the Mariners in Seattle. The only downside is getting hassled at the border by power hungry border agents.

See that's what you can't do I just looked you can sit in centre field for a mid week evening game of the mariners for 7 dollars.

I'd be down to go any week night for that price. It would be especially great for people with kids.

To make it work though we would need a stadium and the only way that works is if it's multi use with the caps and maybe lions. (BC place sucks)

 

[The Stig]

Have nowhere to put a team.

 

[Nuckles]

Too many rain delays.

 

[The Stig]

Too many rain delays.

That thought crossed my mind too. It would have to be a stadium build similar to Safeco.

 

[F A N]

I don't think it will work. You basically need at least $130M and realistically at $150M+ US in payroll to have a chance at fielding a competitive team. Without a stadium, tax subsidies, easy/cheap parking, I can't see it working.

2) In that small population is a huge Asian component, and culturally this group just isn't as interested in NA pro sports.

Wow talk about broad strokes and ignorance. Have you been to Canucks games? The stadium is filled with people of Asian or South East Asian descent wearing Canucks jerseys. Baseball also happens to be huge in Japan and Taiwan. Basketball is huge in China and Japan. In fact, the NBA has been the most followed sports league in China for quite some time (soccer is gaining). China also now has a KHL team. Canucks games are broadcast in Punjabi. Don't talk about Asian culture if you don't know anything about it. And people who immigrate to Canada and become Canadian citizens are Canadian. Don't be surprised if they oh get exposed to and become interested in NA pro sports?

 

[Verviticus]

im pretty sure the baseball fan demographic is virtually entirely old white people

 

[Hit the post]

Probably better to get back on track...

 

[MS]

Wow talk about broad strokes and ignorance. Have you been to Canucks games? The stadium is filled with people of Asian or South East Asian descent wearing Canucks jerseys. Baseball also happens to be huge in Japan and Taiwan. Basketball is huge in China and Japan. In fact, the NBA has been the most followed sports league in China for quite some time (soccer is gaining). China also now has a KHL team. Canucks games are broadcast in Punjabi. Don't talk about Asian culture if you don't know anything about it. And people who immigrate to Canada and become Canadian citizens are Canadian. Don't be surprised if they oh get exposed to and become interested in NA pro sports?

Of course there are Asian people at Canuck games. But if you think that the percentage of Asian people at Canuck games matches the percentage in the city as a whole, or that hockey plays as well with first-generation Chinese immigrants .... I'm sorry, I just completely disagree. And there's nothing 'offensive' or 'ignorant' about that, and absolutely nobody said that these people weren't Canadian, and it's absurd to even go down that road. Different cultural groups have different interests, and if you think that the massive Chinese immigrant population in Vancouver is as in to baseball as a generations-old embedded fanbase in Cleveland or Pittsburgh ... good luck with that opinion.

And if you bothered reading my next post, I noted that basketball is very big in Asia and Asian communities.

Hockey is MASSIVE in the Sikh/Punjabi community and pretty much everyone I know in that group is a big Canuck fan. But that's not what was being talked about unless you're using the very broad 'Asian' definition.

 

[Verviticus]

asia is a single culture didnt you know

 

[MS]

asia is a single culture didnt you know

Ugh.

Obviously not. But 'Asian' and 'large Asian community' in this context is pretty obviously referring to China and the massive first-generation Chinese population in Vancouver as opposed to India or Russia or Saudi Arabia.